Baseball on the decline in US?

[spit_bubble]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

...In baseball, you need a glove to learn how to play defense properly...

Actually fielding without a glove is a very good drill. It helps to develop soft hands... On the infield at least. Outfield? Not so much.

As to the main question, why aren't kids playing baseball? My guess would be that culturally it just isn't as good a fit as it once was. Baseball requires a lot of time and patience, and the ability to endure a lot of failure. Seems like those are two things that probably don't have a lot of appeal at the moment, among kids or parents. Combine lengthy periods of inactivity, with a necessity for a not so easily acquired skill set, and I can see why a kid might be more interested in something else.

I don't know, kinda hard to speak about trends like this. In truth there's probably a number of reasons.

Baseball is still the best sport in my mind. I swear I learned more playing it than I did from a $100,000 private school college education.

[lnin0]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

Unlike football and basketball, where parity it driven by salary caps, baseball is open to the highest bidder. If you are outside one of the major markets then what joy is there rooting for a perpetual looser. Even if your low budget, looser of a team does have a good year you can expect them to be gutted the next and back on the bottom. Fans loose interest, parents loose interest and kids are never even introduce to the idea of baseball.

[Perfect Zero]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

Unlike football and basketball, where parity it driven by salary caps, baseball is open to the highest bidder. If you are outside one of the major markets then what joy is there rooting for a perpetual looser. Even if your low budget, looser of a team does have a good year you can expect them to be gutted the next and back on the bottom. Fans loose interest, parents loose interest and kids are never even introduce to the idea of baseball.

This is completely untrue. If you pay your front office to scout and to make wise contracts, you will win. The Texas Rangers were a cellar dweller for years in a market dominated by the Dallas Cowboys, and all it took was elbow grease from management to make the front office boys work. A salary cap won't fix these things; the only thing that will work is dedicated ownership. Otherwise, you would see teams like the St. Louis Rams and the Jacksonville Jaguars in the playoffs every other year.

[Money99]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

Let me know if I'm boring you guys with this, but last night our baseball organization tallied our total registration for 2012 and we have 144 kids signed-up.
In 2009 we had 467.

We'll probably get another 25-35 late registrations from now until May 1st when most divisions start playing. But still, less than 200 kids.

At one point, our organization was considered a model to live by. We only have 5000 people in our town and yet we were doubling the registration of rival towns who had 20K or more.

Since 2009 we had some issues with our travel convener and a few other coaches and I think that had a lot to do with losing players.
But still, to lose nearly 70% over the last 3 years is huge.

[matthewk]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

Regardless of race or economics, one cannot deny that it is much easier to get 4 or 6 or 8 or even 10 guys together for a game of hoops than it is to organize whatever number of people would be considered the minimum to field two teams for a legit baseball game (probably no less than 6 or 7 per side). You don’t have the luxury of running out for a quick 2-on-2 or 3-on-3 game of baseball, and again, a basketball hoop is much easier to come by than a field suitable for baseball.<O</O

I didn't read through the entire thread, so forgive me if this has already been addressed.

I grew up where we'd play baseball a few times a week, and we almost never had more than 8 guys total. We'd play in the street with 2-on-2 most days. It was common to play baseball with few players by making up rules about hitting only to a certain side or using a narrow street as the field. We also used to play a lot of strikeout, which on requires 2 players.

For those not familiar with strikeout, it's baseball played against a wall using either a rubber ball or tennis ball. The strike zone is taped or painted on a wall. hits can be based on how far the ball travels in the air, or by designating certain areas for hits. It was a great way to play baseball with a small number of players.

You can play the game (abeit an altered version) with a small number of players and without a diamond.

[CMH]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

Let me know if I'm boring you guys with this, but last night our baseball organization tallied our total registration for 2012 and we have 144 kids signed-up.
In 2009 we had 467.

We'll probably get another 25-35 late registrations from now until May 1st when most divisions start playing. But still, less than 200 kids.

At one point, our organization was considered a model to live by. We only have 5000 people in our town and yet we were doubling the registration of rival towns who had 20K or more.

Since 2009 we had some issues with our travel convener and a few other coaches and I think that had a lot to do with losing players.
But still, to lose nearly 70% over the last 3 years is huge.

Not boring me at all. The numbers are interesting. I don't know of any leagues off-hand so couldn't tell you what the declines are like. Thanks for providing.

I'm assuming you guys don't do any cold-calling or direct marketing to let kids know the league is starting back up?

[RockinDaMike]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

Here's my take. I'm pretty new fan to baseball, never was a fan until I moved here to Arizona. I moved here when the dbacks won the world series so that made me follow them during the playoffs.

After that, I really didn't follow dbacks or baseball thought it was a slow sport and I preferred high paced basketball and hard hitting football. It took me years of trying to understand the game but about 6 years ago I made myself watch almost every game for a month to understand and I totally got the strategy with pitching and subbing in relief pitchers and following each player for a long stretch and seeing their improvement (or decline). I just love the sport now and I'm learning more and more everyday. I always ask questions with my friends who are fans and it makes me love the game the more I learn.

That's part of why i think baseball is declining. If your new to it, it takes awhile to learn if never really grown up with it. Players have to be consistently good for a long stretch before they are even recognized in the MLB. If your in the NBA, you have a good two weeks maybe a month (cough, cough, Lin) then your immediately recognized. Same with the NFL if you have a couple good games with a number of touchdowns you'll be talked about a lot on espn.

The stats for football and basketball are easy to understand. Football you have td's, yards, int and sacks and the more you have of those, the better player you are. Same with basketball with points/rebs/assist/steals/blocks.

In baseball failing is such a huge part of the game. Does a person understand that have over a .300 batting avg is considered good? What does ERA mean and how come a lower number means its good? Cool you might know Homerun is but do you know why OBP and slugging percentage, Strikeouts also factor in.

Right now a kid has equal chance to watch all the sports on tv and make a decision on what sport they want to try and if they can easily understand basketball and football then thats why I think they will tend to lean on those sports on top of all the other reason posters put in this thread.

[CMH]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

The stats for football and basketball are easy to understand. Football you have td's, yards, int and sacks and the more you have of those, the better player you are. Same with basketball with points/rebs/assist/steals/blocks.

In baseball failing is such a huge part of the game. Does a person understand that have over a .300 batting avg is considered good? What does ERA mean and how come a lower number means its good? Cool you might know Homerun is but do you know why OBP and slugging percentage, Strikeouts also factor in.

I was thinking about this the other day as well. Baseball's stats don't really tell you what the player is going to do on any given day. Football can be that way as well but for the most part if a QB has a lot of passing yards, you're going to see a lot of passing yards in the game. Just because a guy has 30 home runs doesn't mean he's going to hit a home run.

Basketball, you know a guy that averages 25 ppg is pretty much going to score 25 points. But a guy batting .300 isn't necessarily going to go 1-3. He could go 0-4 and someone sitting next to you will say "He's a great player!"

It's a hard sport to follow. I get that. The stats have their own world and need for appreciation. It's one sport where you don't really get the full picture until after the season is over and even then, someone still just had a bad year or too good of one.

[yankeesgiants]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

Let me know if I'm boring you guys with this, but last night our baseball organization tallied our total registration for 2012 and we have 144 kids signed-up.
In 2009 we had 467.

We'll probably get another 25-35 late registrations from now until May 1st when most divisions start playing. But still, less than 200 kids.

At one point, our organization was considered a model to live by. We only have 5000 people in our town and yet we were doubling the registration of rival towns who had 20K or more.

Since 2009 we had some issues with our travel convener and a few other coaches and I think that had a lot to do with losing players.
But still, to lose nearly 70% over the last 3 years is huge.

Are you losing those kids to other sports or are you losing them in general?

[Money99]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

Not boring me at all. The numbers are interesting. I don't know of any leagues off-hand so couldn't tell you what the declines are like. Thanks for providing.

I'm assuming you guys don't do any cold-calling or direct marketing to let kids know the league is starting back up?

Before the start of last season, I called all the kids who were registered for the 2010 season who weren't signed up for 2011.
The most common answer was that they're child was dedicating the spring/summer to a different sport - mostly hockey, then lacrosse (which is seeing a huge comeback in our area - mostly because it resembles hockey and helps kids hand-eye for hockey. Hockey. Can I say that word one more time. )

We've also tried to do our best to send out pamphlets and reminders to the local elementary schools.

Are you losing those kids to other sports or are you losing them in general?

It seems that attendance is way down for both baseball and soccer in our area.
And I think most of these kids are becoming one-sport athletes.
One father, who's son plays on a rep hockey team, told me that his son will be playing spring 4-on-4 hockey, followed by a summer league. He will also be taking power-skating, skills camps and will train on a skating treadmill at least once a week.
And from what he told me, this is fairly common amongst all kids playing travel hockey.
It's become an arms-race where if your child isn't doing these things, it's next to impossible to keep up with the other kids who are on the ice for 10-12 months of the year.

I'm wondering if this is the same thing in other areas of North America where another sport such as basketball or football is very popular.

You're all going to laugh at me, but last night I called into the MLB Network on XM to talk with Cliff Lloyd. I asked him the same question and he basically repeated what so many of you have said; baseball isn't as cool.
He reiterated how today's youth are really into 'bling' and 'swag'. Guys like Lebron and Vick have swag while you don't see it as much in baseball.
He also said that kids need to be forced into baseball in order to get a taste of it.
When he was younger, he said he would play on empty lots with no grass. But he and his friends loved baseball and would play all the time without being told to, or forced to.
He also felt that all these elite teams and programs are hurting the sport too.
It's squeezing out kids that can't afford it, or just want to play to have fun.
There are fewer and fewer rec teams for the 'average' kid.

[55]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

Spoiler

I have just always wanted an excuse to post that Cliff Floyd card.

[misterkrabz]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

I think baseball, in general, is on the rise. Here's why, 30 years ago when I was playing (I'm 40 now) there were no indoor practice facilities, fall or winter leagues (I live in Washington state), turf fields, or year around camps like there are today. Heck we had to drive miles just to go to a coin operated batting cage. Now that all of that stuff is practically at our front door.

After seeing my kids play I've noticed that the level of ability is much better than it was years ago when I was that age. And if you have any kind of aspirations or dreams to play a sport professionally, baseball is your best chance. Unless you have freakish talent or have freakish size you'll never get a sniff of pro basketball or football. Baseball is more technical than those sports and is more difficult to play and it takes A LOT of work to be good...yes that discourages many kids but some really take to it. And the ones who do work at it usually reap the rewards. Baseball is a far more satisfying experience when you're successful.

I would say a bigger threat to baseball would be soccer...more kids play that than ever and they like it. When I was a kid we sort laughed at the "soccer" kids...now it seems like everyone plays it and the professional league in America is gaining steam.

Another thing as an adult, baseball is the only sports entertainment option that is affordable to take your family to. There's no way in the world I would pay to take my family (wife and 3 kids) to a Seahawks game at nearly $100 (or more) a pop for top level tickets, same is true for the NBA...it's completely out of the question. Our kids have fun at a Mariners game (and even more so at a Rainiers game - AAA affiliate) and those games are affordable. We can go to those games for less than a $100 in some cases. Which is technically still expensive, but not unaffordable.

[Money99]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

I think baseball, in general, is on the rise. Here's why, 30 years ago when I was playing (I'm 40 now) there were no indoor practice facilities, fall or winter leagues (I live in Washington state), turf fields, or year around camps like there are today. Heck we had to drive miles just to go to a coin operated batting cage. Now that all of that stuff is practically at our front door.

After seeing my kids play I've noticed that the level of ability is much better than it was years ago when I was that age. And if you have any kind of aspirations or dreams to play a sport professionally, baseball is your best chance. Unless you have freakish talent or have freakish size you'll never get a sniff of pro basketball or football. Baseball is more technical than those sports and is more difficult to play and it takes A LOT of work to be good...yes that discourages many kids but some really take to it. And the ones who do work at it usually reap the rewards. Baseball is a far more satisfying experience when you're successful.

I would say a bigger threat to baseball would be soccer...more kids play that than ever and they like it. When I was a kid we sort laughed at the "soccer" kids...now it seems like everyone plays it and the professional league in America is gaining steam.

Another thing as an adult, baseball is the only sports entertainment option that is affordable to take your family to. There's no way in the world I would pay to take my family (wife and 3 kids) to a Seahawks game at nearly $100 (or more) a pop for top level tickets, same is true for the NBA...it's completely out of the question. Our kids have fun at a Mariners game (and even more so at a Rainiers game - AAA affiliate) and those games are affordable. We can go to those games for less than a $100 in some cases. Which is technically still expensive, but not unaffordable.

That seems to be part of the problem though. Baseball is doing well for the elite players and programs - who use winter domes and state of the art practice facilities.
But it's dwindling at the grass-roots level. Kids that play rec don't last long because there aren't enough kids, coaching is poor and facilities aren't up to par.
All of the effort is going to the elite programs.

[misterkrabz]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

That seems to be part of the problem though. Baseball is doing well for the elite players and programs - who use winter domes and state of the art practice facilities.
But it's dwindling at the grass-roots level. Kids that play rec don't last long because there aren't enough kids, coaching is poor and facilities aren't up to par.
All of the effort is going to the elite programs.

Maybe it depends are where you're at (geographically)? I live in a relatively small town and we have Little League, Cal Ripken, and a select league for just about every age group. It is different than 30 years ago in the sense that the good (or better) players do gravitate to the select leagues. However you can still compete with those kids with "rec" teams if the coaching is there. My kids soccer team is "rec" but we pretty much beat all the "select" teams in the area on a regular basis because we have a good group of kids and rock solid coaching.

Coaching and parental involvement/encouragement is everything. In areas where those things are weak (broken families, low income, lazy parents) I can see structured or organized leagues (or opportunities) breaking down. As is the case with all other aspects of society in those areas.

What I'm seeing is kids being pushed to hard at a young age and then they get burned out and not want to play anymore. In a few cases that cycle has run its course before the kid even got to high school. I've seen it first hand.

[bad_philanthropy]

Re: Baseball on the decline in US?

I will qualify this by saying I work for the Blue Jays and that these are just my observations. From what I've seen the past few years in terms of people attending game, I'd say the real baseball enthusiasts—not just families, or tourists in town to witness a one off spectacle—are generally older. There are very few under 40's casual baseball fans. There are, however, lots and I mean lots of seniors who attend regularly.

The curious case in which I see young regulars at the game with scorecards and all that are what I would best describe as hipsters. I don't know whether there is a kitsch or nostalgia element that appeals to them, but they come in droves and are quite passionate fans of the team and the game.

Maybe we'll see a whole generation of hipster offspring rebuilding the youth baseball ranks?