Expanded Playoffs are a "go"

[NYJets]

Re: Expanded Playoffs are a "go"

The alternative for the 5th seed last year was that you are out. And lots of folks think the same should happen to the other wild card.

I don't see whats wrong with that, they had 162 games to prove they were one of the top 4 teams.

Like I said, the one game playoffs will be entertaining, and in most years this should create more races and keep more teams involved. So I'm fine with it. They just better be able to figure out a schedule that will allow people to see these added games, or there is no point in doing it.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Expanded Playoffs are a "go"

One game playoffs should be to settle ties. That's it. You wanna have manufactured drama with a "play in" between two wild card teams, make it a damn series.

[SPTO]

Re: Expanded Playoffs are a "go"

One game playoffs should be to settle ties. That's it. You wanna have manufactured drama with a "play in" between two wild card teams, make it a damn series.

In a perfect world i'd make it a 3 game series but well....The calendar is MLB's enemy.

[jvalverde88]

Re: Expanded Playoffs are a "go"

In a perfect world i'd make it a 3 game series but well....The calendar is MLB's enemy.

Just shorten the season.

[Perfect Zero]

Re: Expanded Playoffs are a "go"

I don't like the second wild card and think it is incredibly short sighted for the following reasons:

1. Using last year as an example instead of having 2 thrilling finishes for the last 2 weeks of the year(4 teams going all out trying to win every game) everyone would have known the outcome for 2 or 3 weeks and played all their triple A guys in anticipation of the 1 game playoff, look at the standings for the last 10 years the race for 1st amongst non division winners is usually much tighter than the race for 2nd

Using last year's standings for a new format this year doesn't work really well. There was no extra incentive to get out of the wild card race because once you were in, you were in. This year, we have Baltimore, New York, Tampa Bay, Detroit, Chicago (A), Oakland, Los Angeles (A), Atlanta, Philadelphia, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Los Angeles (N), and Arizona fighting for the last two spots. There was nothing like this last year. Having 14 teams still fighting for a shot to make the postseason is incredible. The scenario that you have listed isn't happening this year, and it won't because teams are going to fight tooth and nail to make the postseason in any way.

2. It's also stupid because using last year as an example as a Braves fan the Cardinals beat us fair and square, a 162 game schedule was played and they won more games, therefore why should we get the opportunity to beat them in a 1 game scenario?(a single A team can beat the Cardinals in a 1 game scenario so that's kinda unfair don't you think) we had our chance and lost fair and square that's how she goes, any real man can see we ABSOLUTELY DID NOT deserve to get a chance to beat them in a 1 game scenario they beat us fair and square that's all there is to it

Those were the rules of the previous season. They no longer apply to 2012-Future, so the wild card games by definition will be "fair and square." One of the big things for this even happening is so that wild card teams would not have the advantages of the past. It's basically rewarding the second place team for being a runner up. The reward should be winning the division. If you can't beat the teams that you face more than half of the season, then you need to have a tougher road to the World Series.

3. Look at the standings this year the Braves are 4 or 5 up from everyone else in the Wild Card, yet we could lose a 1 game scenario and be out, even a 5 year old can see that this is stupid

So you want a trophy for participating? If the Braves were worth going to the playoffs, they would win the division. They play the Nationals just as many times as the other National League East teams; so if they are better shouldn't their record reflect that? Second or third place is no longer good enough, and it never should have been enough in the first place. If you want the easier route, beat the teams in your division and earn your way.

4. It puts the wild card team at a disadvantage.

This is the goal if you haven't noticed by now (which judging by this rant, you haven't)

For years division or wild card it didn't matter once the playoffs started both had an equal opportunity, but now the wild card team is at a severe disadvantage because in most situations they will only be able to pitch their number 1 starter 1 time in the first round while the other guys number 1 starter goes twice, therefore once the playoffs start then wild card team is at a big disadvantage(not a team like the Phillies or Rays though who have multiple No.1's which is another thing that I think is unfair) meaning that although the wild card is now easier to get for teams it's also less valuable because you're chances of winning the W.S as a wild card team are significantly lower(unless you're a team with multiple No.1's like the Rays and Phillies)

Wild card teams are lucky they even have a shot at going to the playoffs. Again, it's akin to crying because second place isn't easy enough. It will be especially true with the new schedule, but now you have to win the division without exception. Considering that the new schedule will have 19 games against each division opponent, this should be no problem.

5. It weakens the trade deadline, it didn't so much this year but give GM's a year or two and they will realize that it makes no sense to give up prospects for vets unless you have the division locked up because the wild card playoff spot is essentially worthless(for the Braves for example we have the 6th best record in baseball yet if you calculate our odds of being one of the wild card teams it's about 90% then you divide that by 2 we only actually have a 45% chance of even making the playoffs and since we'll be at a distinct disadvantage because we'll probably only have Medlen going once in the first round basically it means any GM that doesn't just stand pat unless they have a damn good shot at the division is an idiot and within a year or 2 it will make the deadline a lot less fun and active)

If it didn't hurt this year, why will that change in the future? If the wild card spot is truly worthless, that would actually drive up the amount of trades as more teams would be out of it. The evidence however is pointing to more of the same. There will be teams that think that they are out of it by the time the deadline comes, and there will be teams that think they can win it all. This is no different than in the past.

5. The real biggest reason it is stupid is that it generates LESS interest, like I said in point one using last year as an example you would have traded about 40 great must win games(each teams last 10 I forget if the Sox and Rays played each other sorry) for 2 must win games, basically this format in most seasons just deadens the last 2 weeks of the season to make 1 day more exciting, which is utter insanity in my opinion

So having 14 teams within 4.5 games generates less interest? You could have fooled me on that one. When I look at Baltimore, there's a fanbase that hasn't been there since 1997 (and I would argue to Memorial Stadium). For the first time in years, the Oakland Colosseum sold out for a baseball game. Teams that haven't had a chance in the past for a free-bee spot now have one thanks to the new playoff. I highly doubt the Wild Card Play-in will generate poor ratings. In fact, it will come to show that people want to see exciting baseball year round, something that is happening right now in Baseball. For a sport that hates to be progressive, they have finally done something right here.

To sum up this format generates less excitement during the seasons final 2-4 weeks, is grossly unfair and is probably going to make the trade deadline a lot more mundane all in the name of playing 2 must win games,
this format is so stupid that it obviously came straight from Bud(the ladies call me Dud) Selig, the man who is so stupid that he needs to constantly have someone reminding him to breathe or he'll forget to and die.

This statement has been proven false (except for the name calling; which could have been done by any school kid in a manor more respectful than the way it was posted here).

Also somewhat separate question but to me I don't count the 1 game wild card as making the playoffs, for example if the Braves lose that 1 game I won't look at it like we made the playoffs and lost I'll look at it like we just tied for the last spot and lost the tiebreaker, therefore 2 years from now I'll look back and think we missed the playoffs, what do you guys think about that? Do you count the wild card loser as a playoff team or not?

Baseball has stated that there will be ten teams instead of eight during the playoffs. Therefore, the teams that play in the Wild Card Showdown are teams that make the playoffs.

[DrJones]

Re: Expanded Playoffs are a "go"

In a perfect world i'd make it a 3 game series but well....The calendar is MLB's enemy.

Calendar has nothing to do with it. A best-of-3 would greatly reduce the disadvantage to the wild card team, and give division winners extra days off (that they don't want), thereby negating the entire reason for play-in game's existence.

[DrJones]

Re: Expanded Playoffs are a "go"

we had our chance and lost fair and square that's how she goes, any real man can see we ABSOLUTELY DID NOT deserve to get a chance to beat them in a 1 game scenario they beat us fair and square that's all there is to it

"Real men" don't believe in wild cards, period (or divisions, for that matter). Why should the Braves get a chance to knock out the Nationals in a best-of-5? Washington is going to win the NL East, fair and square. That's all there is to it.

[55]

Re: Expanded Playoffs are a "go"

(not a team like the Phillies or Rays though who have multiple No.1's which is another thing that I think is unfair)

LOL @ the Rays having multiple aces being "unfair" just because they draft better than everyone else.

Every single pitcher in the Rays rotation was homegrown. How in god/satan's name is that "unfair" to anyone?

[SPTO]

Re: Expanded Playoffs are a "go"

Calendar has nothing to do with it. A best-of-3 would greatly reduce the disadvantage to the wild card team, and give division winners extra days off (that they don't want), thereby negating the entire reason for play-in game's existence.

Well then screw it.

Let's go back to last year's system.

[Braves Fan 21]

Re: Expanded Playoffs are a "go"

Wow didn't mean it as a slight to the Rays at all, they're my favorite team in baseball to watch because of their pitching and like you guys said I love them because they drafted them all, I just meant setting up a format that gives an advantage to anyone based on 1 team skill set is not a good idea(why give an advantage to team with good starting pitching ,or good hitting or good defense just make it all even), like how hockey's shootout gives an advantage to teams with elite scorers or goalies. Again nothing wrong with Tampa just stupid of baseball to give an individual part of the game more of an advantage than the whole team game.

As for the only division winners only making the playoffs I would have no problem with this, in this scenario the Braves would miss and I would be cool with it.

However saying that the wild card team should have it harder(if wild cards are allowed to make it) than every single division winner is stupid, if the A's make the playoffs as a wild card team why should they have it harder than the winner of the AL Central who had an easier schedule than the A's? Again I would have nothing wrong with only the division winners making it but that would only be fair if every team in baseball played a balanced even schedule, the way the schedule works now for example teams in the central divisions have it a lot easier because of the weakness of their division, so to go to an only division winners make the playoffs format you would have to do a schedule like every team plays the teams in their league 11 times(154 total) than the other 8 would be at random. This would at least make the schedule close to fair and make the division races fair. Just because baseball had just the division winner making the playoffs under a completely unfair regular season schedule for years and years doesn't mean it makes sense , thinking is actually a good thing. Really anyone with half a brain can see that the division winner in EVERY sport should only have an advantage if the schedule is perfectly balanced, otherwise they shouldn't.

Lastly it's great that Bud Selig considers that 10 teams make it(he's just saying this to try and trick stupid people into thinking it's true) but since I have my own brain and am allowed to think for myself I only consider 8 since 2 of the teams only actually played 1 game and it's not NFL.

Also perfect zero don't take offense to this but saying that a second place team should be at a disadvantage to a team that finished in first but had a much easier schedule and therefore a lower mathematical win % when taking into account strength of schedule might be 1 of the dumbest things i've ever read in my life.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Expanded Playoffs are a "go"

Your "anyone with half a brain" and "no offense but......might be one of the dumbest things I've ever read in my life" are a really easy way to find you off this site quickly, dude.

I agree with your general points but you need to knock that off.

[Perfect Zero]

Re: Expanded Playoffs are a "go"

Wow didn't mean it as a slight to the Rays at all, they're my favorite team in baseball to watch because of their pitching and like you guys said I love them because they drafted them all, I just meant setting up a format that gives an advantage to anyone based on 1 team skill set is not a good idea(why give an advantage to team with good starting pitching ,or good hitting or good defense just make it all even), like how hockey's shootout gives an advantage to teams with elite scorers or goalies. Again nothing wrong with Tampa just stupid of baseball to give an individual part of the game more of an advantage than the whole team game.

This makes absolutely zero sense. I honestly don't even think you have a point here (and if you do have one, please post it; I'd love to have an honest debate over any injustice that you see here.)

As for the only division winners only making the playoffs I would have no problem with this, in this scenario the Braves would miss and I would be cool with it.

Non sequitur

However saying that the wild card team should have it harder(if wild cards are allowed to make it) than every single division winner is stupid, if the A's make the playoffs as a wild card team why should they have it harder than the winner of the AL Central who had an easier schedule than the A's?

The Athletics don't have to play every team in the American League Central in order to win their division though. The majority of the schedule involves playing teams from your own division. If you can't even beat the teams in said division, why should you have an equal road in the playoffs against teams that ended up finishing their end of the business in the regular season. It's embarrassing for the sport to have teams get in by being the least offensive non-division winner, then winning the World Series. The new playoff format will alleviate that problem.

Again I would have nothing wrong with only the division winners making it but that would only be fair if every team in baseball played a balanced even schedule, the way the schedule works now for example teams in the central divisions have it a lot easier because of the weakness of their division, so to go to an only division winners make the playoffs format you would have to do a schedule like every team plays the teams in their league 11 times(154 total) than the other 8 would be at random. This would at least make the schedule close to fair and make the division races fair.

So you want division winners to be representative of geography only? The only way your scenario would work would be if there were no divisions at all. Next year, there will be 76 division games for every team. That will be nearly half of the schedule with teams playing within their division. This is more than what we see in football (6 out of 16), and without looking I know this is more than basketball. If you want to win your division, you have to beat the teams in your division. You're arguing for something that isn't broken.

Just because baseball had just the division winner making the playoffs under a completely unfair regular season schedule for years and years doesn't mean it makes sense , thinking is actually a good thing. Really anyone with half a brain can see that the division winner in EVERY sport should only have an advantage if the schedule is perfectly balanced, otherwise they shouldn't.

The schedule is balanced; it's your logic that is flawed.

Lastly it's great that Bud Selig considers that 10 teams make it(he's just saying this to try and trick stupid people into thinking it's true) but since I have my own brain and am allowed to think for myself I only consider 8 since 2 of the teams only actually played 1 game and it's not NFL.

So you are calling me stupid along with millions of Baseball fans? Interesting (especially since that is a TOS violation right off the bat if you'll pardon the pun). Major League Baseball has said that in this and future years, the playoffs will be extended to ten teams. It is part of the postseason whether you want to accept that or not.

Also perfect zero don't take offense to this but saying that a second place team should be at a disadvantage to a team that finished in first but had a much easier schedule and therefore a lower mathematical win % when taking into account strength of schedule might be 1 of the dumbest things i've ever read in my life.

This should read "Also Perfect Zero, don't take offense to this even though I called you stupid and declared that a person with half a brain cell is smarter than you, but my flawed logic on how parity in divisional play has encouraged me to ramble on about an equal league schedule, even though I don't understand how divisional play works in sports and therefore I can not comprehend basic logic skills (and run-on sentence skills)"

[Braves Fan 21]

Re: Expanded Playoffs are a "go"

"The Athletics don't have to play every team in the American League Central in order to win their division though. The majority of the schedule involves playing teams from your own division. If you can't even beat the teams in said division, why should you have an equal road in the playoffs against teams that ended up finishing their end of the business in the regular season. It's embarrassing for the sport to have teams get in by being the least offensive non-division winner, then winning the World Series. The new playoff format will alleviate that problem."


This is my point with division exactly is that since the AL Central and AL West play different schedules it's doesn't necessarily mean that the 2nd place AL West team should have it harder come playoff time than the 1st place AL Central team, how do you know the 2nd place team didn't have a much harder schedule and therefore played better even though they lost more games. In my own opinion divisions in all sports should be abolished(teams should play the same schedule as teams in their own league; bottom line is any other way isn't fair to the athletes and they matter the most). In my opinion it is embarassing that a 1st place team is automatically considered better than a 2nd place team based upon whether or not you were lucky enough to be placed in a weak or a strong division. This is why I don't like the new format it just assumes that the Division winner had an equal or harder schedule than the 1st wild card team, which in my opinion is simply not true. In my opinion unless the schedule are balanced and teams play everyone an equal number of times than a team DOES NOT deserve an edge in the playoffs based on winning the division.

Obviously you are an old school fan that believes that the divisions should actually matter, that the division system is fair even though the schedule is extremely unbalanced. I on the other hand believe that using divisions is flawed(in all sports) and is grossly unfair to the players and that since the players are the people who actually are competing for something than what is most fair to the athletes is all that matters.

So we both just have opinions on the opposite end of the spectrum, neither of us is right or wrong we both just have different opinions, if I was rude in my last post than I am sorry. If I was wrong in assuming what you were saying about the divisions than tell me.

[Perfect Zero]

Re: Expanded Playoffs are a "go"

Okay I see it, you are just living in sandbox land and you are not debating anything that is relevant in the new playoff system. Your argument is just part of an irrelevant thesis. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Braves Fan 21]

Re: Expanded Playoffs are a "go"

Actually since a 2nd place team could finish with more wins than a team that wins their division in the same league and that 2nd place team would either not make the playoffs at all(if they lose the wild card game) or make the playoffs and be at a disadvantage(if they won the wild card game) to the team that won their division but actually had more loses than this is unfair.

If 1 team wins their division with 89 wins and a 2nd place team in another division in the same league has 91 wins why should the 91 win team be at a disadvantage to the 89 win team just because the 89 win team was lucky enough to be in a less competitive division than the 91 win team was in. Under the old system this didn't matter(unless the 2nd and 3rd place teams in 1 division both had more wins than the other 2 division winners which is rare) but with the new system a team that finishes 2nd but wins more games than a team that finishes 1st in a different division gets penalized in the playoffs(and this will happen almost every year); to me this is unfair.

The new system places even more of a premium on the division and in my opinion as a fan since the divisions are not equal in terms of strength than luck of the draw concerning the strength of the other teams in your division should simply not give a team an advantage in the playoffs. In the new system division winners do have an advantage in the playoffs and in the old system the division winners didn't have an advantage in the playoffs. Since the divisions are the way they are; they're grossly unfair in terms of strength but they're not changing anytime soon or probably ever, then to me the old system was better because since you can't change the divisions you could at least minimize their affect on the playoffs and in the new system the divisions affect on the playoffs is maximized and this is exactly why I personally do not like the new system it simply makes something that was chosen at random in terms of strength(the divisions) give certain teams a distinct advantage over others and as a fan and a human being I feel sorry for the athletes who are at a disadvantage because they are great competitors and deserve better than that. I don't just think to myself "well this don't matter to me because I'm not involved personally" I actually feel sorry for the athletes since they're going out on the field playing their hearts out and some of them are being put at a disadvantage due to luck of the division draw, at least with the old system the luck was greatly minimized for 2nd place teams and with the new system not so much, which to me is unfortunate and is why I dislike the new system. Obviously luck of the draw affects everyone all the time in countless situations but it doesn't mean that when you can minimize its affects quite easily you should just not care.