Baseball Prospectus: Revisiting The Johan Santana Trade

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  • econoodle
    MVP
    • Sep 2009
    • 4884

    #1

    Baseball Prospectus: Revisiting The Johan Santana Trade

    With Johan throwing a few innings the other day [and having no pain in his shoulder], and Met fans hoping he has a return to form, tho it is unlikely he will be the same pitcher, it reminded me of the trade and i wondered how those other guys the mets gave up are doing.
    Early on in was a slam dunk in the Mets favor, and judging from this great article at BP, both teams looks like they lost this one.
    Is there still hope for one team to consider this a win?

    The best chance is for the Mets, if Johan pitches to 15 wins and his usual 3 era over the next two years.



    as a follow-up a decent article as well on Johan

    Last edited by econoodle; 03-08-2012, 01:45 PM.
  • CKW11
    MVP
    • Mar 2009
    • 1540

    #2
    Re: Baseball Prospectus: Revisiting The Johan Santana Trade

    I would have to say the Mets won this deal, and its not even close in my mind. I really dont know off the top of my head, but are any of those players the Twins received even on the roster anymore? The Mets at least got 3 years, and 90+ starts out of Johan.

    The Twins are also losers in my mind because according to that article, they could have received Ellsbury, Bucholz, Lester, Masterson & Lowrie from the Sox or Chamberlain, Hughes, Melky, Kennedy & Jackson from the Yankees. Most of those players have had at least some success at the Major League level. Instead they receive four guys who I don't think are even on the roster anymore (could be wrong on this).

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    • 1Rose
      Banned
      • Jun 2011
      • 2562

      #3
      Re: Baseball Prospectus: Revisiting The Johan Santana Trade

      God, either the Sox or Yankees package would have been an amazing deal.

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      • Melanconfan
        Rookie
        • May 2008
        • 242

        #4
        Re: Baseball Prospectus: Revisiting The Johan Santana Trade

        Those weren't the packages, just the players presumably discussed. Biggest package the Twins asked for from NY was Hughes, Melky, Kennedy, and Jeff Marquez. Yankees didn't want to include both Hughes and Kennedy in the deal.

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        • 12
          Banned
          • Feb 2010
          • 4458

          #5
          Re: Baseball Prospectus: Revisiting The Johan Santana Trade

          Originally posted by CKW11
          I would have to say the Mets won this deal, and its not even close in my mind. I really dont know off the top of my head, but are any of those players the Twins received even on the roster anymore? The Mets at least got 3 years, and 90+ starts out of Johan.

          The Twins are also losers in my mind because according to that article, they could have received Ellsbury, Bucholz, Lester, Masterson & Lowrie from the Sox or Chamberlain, Hughes, Melky, Kennedy & Jackson from the Yankees. Most of those players have had at least some success at the Major League level. Instead they receive four guys who I don't think are even on the roster anymore (could be wrong on this).
          That is insane!

          Reminds me of an article I read a couple years back about the Red Sox telling the Mariners to pick six of their top eight prospects in exchange for Felix Hernandez.

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          • 12
            Banned
            • Feb 2010
            • 4458

            #6
            Re: Baseball Prospectus: Revisiting The Johan Santana Trade

            No, wait...

            I'm told the Red Sox apparently approached the Mariners and first tried to do a Hernandez trade with Seattle exclusively. Boston wanted Hernandez and gave the Mariners a list of eight prospects, from which Seattle would be allowed to pick any five. They included: RHP Clay Buchholz RHP Daniel Bard RHP Justin Masterson LHP Nick Hagadone RHP Michael Bowden LHP Felix Doubront OF Josh Reddick SS Yamaico Navarro Seattle turned that down.

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            • snepp
              We'll waste him too.
              • Apr 2003
              • 10007

              #7
              Re: Baseball Prospectus: Revisiting The Johan Santana Trade

              Originally posted by CKW11
              The Twins are also losers in my mind because according to that article, they could have received Ellsbury, Bucholz, Lester, Masterson & Lowrie from the Sox or Chamberlain, Hughes, Melky, Kennedy & Jackson from the Yankees.

              Nowhere does it say they could have received all of those players from either of those teams.


              Regardless, the Twins screwed the pooch on this.
              Last edited by snepp; 03-09-2012, 07:09 PM.
              Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

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              • yankeesgiants
                I Drink Like A Champion!!
                • Feb 2007
                • 2477

                #8
                Re: Baseball Prospectus: Revisiting The Johan Santana Trade

                From December 2 2007:

                Sources: Red Sox willing to deal Ellsbury or Lester, not both

                http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3138088
                I dont remember there names but they were allot of fun....

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                • CKW11
                  MVP
                  • Mar 2009
                  • 1540

                  #9
                  Re: Baseball Prospectus: Revisiting The Johan Santana Trade

                  Originally posted by snepp
                  Nowhere does it say they could have received all of those players from either of those teams.


                  Regardless, the Twins screwed the pooch on this.
                  My reading of it implied the author was suggesting all of the mentioned players were available.

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                  • rdnk
                    All Star
                    • Feb 2009
                    • 5730

                    #10
                    Re: Baseball Prospectus: Revisiting The Johan Santana Trade

                    So for Santana, the Twins got a year of Hardy and a year and a half of Rauch...

                    If they could have gotten 3 or 4 of: Masterton, Lester, Bucholz, Lowrie, Ellsbury and Bard, they'd probably be at the top of the AL Central.
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                    • brett the jet favre
                      MVP
                      • Nov 2009
                      • 1938

                      #11
                      Re: Baseball Prospectus: Revisiting The Johan Santana Trade

                      Originally posted by Apostle
                      No, wait...
                      And i sure am glad we didnt trade the King!
                      Ducks, Mariners, Blazers, Lillard, Favre, Iverson, Griffey, Hernandez, Hawks, Wilson,

                      My Mariners dynasty!
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