Vina's option not picked up by the Cardinals

[BigRed]

Re: Vina\'s option not picked up by the Cardinals

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Stoud said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Rag3vsW0rld said:
So I guess Bo Hart stole the job from Vina, how good can the Cards get in Second Base if Vina isn't good enough for them.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Words like that will get you thwarted in the future (for all we know they could get Soriano or something), but I agree completely. Vina is an awesome Second Basemen, and if the Cards don't want him, there's guaranteed to be more than enough teams out there who DO, who are actually INTELLIGENT. No offense or anything, but not picking up a great second basemen like Vina is like "not taking a swing at that easy changeup means...you can take a seat!"

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Vina's not worth the money he's being paid as a second baseman/leadoff hitter. Period.

Sure he's one of the best around defensively, but there's plenty of good defensive 2nd basemen that can get on base that the team needs more.

Consider this. In 2001, Vina hit .303. In 2002, he hit .270 and in 2003 he hit .251.

Also, since we're talking about a leadoff hitter, since 2000, his OBP has gone from .380 to .357 to .333 to .309 this season.

And aren't leadoff hitters supposed to work counts and take walks? Not Fernando.

He whines and cries about management, doesn't get on base and when he does make contact, it's usually a fly ball to center.

Bo Hart isn't the answer, at least for the leadoff spot, but he make spectactular plays in the field and, with more seasoning, will improve on the mental errors.

BTW, if you don't think the Cardinals are an intelligent orginazation, would you rather have Fernando Vina or Albert Pujols? Because, that's pretty much what it comes down to. Albert is now arbitration eligible and his salary is about to skyrocket.

[pol]

Re: Vina\'s option not picked up by the Cardinals

he is way overpaid for what he does.. and obviously according to some responses way overrated.

the only way he can get on base at a good lead off hitter % is if he hits about 320.. he doesnt take walks, never works the count.. and hits flyballs.. he doesnt have the power to be a guy who can hit flyballs.. they are just outs.

[pol]

Re: Vina\'s option not picked up by the Cardinals

he is way overpaid for what he does.. and obviously according to some responses way overrated.

the only way he can get on base at a good lead off hitter % is if he hits about 320.. he doesnt take walks, never works the count.. and hits flyballs.. he doesnt have the power to be a guy who can hit flyballs.. they are just outs.

[pol]

Re: Vina\'s option not picked up by the Cardinals

he is way overpaid for what he does.. and obviously according to some responses way overrated.

the only way he can get on base at a good lead off hitter % is if he hits about 320.. he doesnt take walks, never works the count.. and hits flyballs.. he doesnt have the power to be a guy who can hit flyballs.. they are just outs.

[Stoud]

Re: Vina\'s option not picked up by the Cardinals

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
BigRed said:
Vina's not worth the money he's being paid as a second baseman/leadoff hitter. Period.

Sure he's one of the best around defensively, but there's plenty of good defensive 2nd basemen that can get on base that the team needs more.

Consider this. In 2001, Vina hit .303. In 2002, he hit .270 and in 2003 he hit .251.

Also, since we're talking about a leadoff hitter, since 2000, his OBP has gone from .380 to .357 to .333 to .309 this season.

And aren't leadoff hitters supposed to work counts and take walks? Not Fernando.

He whines and cries about management, doesn't get on base and when he does make contact, it's usually a fly ball to center.

Bo Hart isn't the answer, at least for the leadoff spot, but he make spectactular plays in the field and, with more seasoning, will improve on the mental errors.

BTW, if you don't think the Cardinals are an intelligent orginazation, would you rather have Fernando Vina or Albert Pujols? Because, that's pretty much what it comes down to. Albert is now arbitration eligible and his salary is about to skyrocket.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

It's funny, among all this you conveniently forget to mention that he was injured pretty much half the season this last season, and that was what caused his dismal outings. Just because you don't want to give him a chance doesn't mean he's a bad player. I don't quite get how you could take my comments as such a full on frontal attack. I mean, you don't even give the guy a chance and yet you talk about Bo Hart, who after his awesome start this summer didn't do much of ANYTHING the rest of the year, and yet you give him all the hope in the world? That's kind of hypocritical, isn't it? I don't doubt Hart is going to be a good player, but you're simply acting as if Vina outright sucks wastewater, and I would HOPE we BOTH believe that's not true, and that you were infact just VENTING. I'm not even a big fan of the Cards, but they are one of my favorite teams. All I was saying is that Vina isn't as god awful as everyone is pretending he is. Like I said before, if the Cards don't want him I'm sure there are MANY other teams that would LOVE to have him. Now lets stop arguing over Vina and get to the real question, how to get rid of Tino?

[Stoud]

Re: Vina\'s option not picked up by the Cardinals

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
BigRed said:
Vina's not worth the money he's being paid as a second baseman/leadoff hitter. Period.

Sure he's one of the best around defensively, but there's plenty of good defensive 2nd basemen that can get on base that the team needs more.

Consider this. In 2001, Vina hit .303. In 2002, he hit .270 and in 2003 he hit .251.

Also, since we're talking about a leadoff hitter, since 2000, his OBP has gone from .380 to .357 to .333 to .309 this season.

And aren't leadoff hitters supposed to work counts and take walks? Not Fernando.

He whines and cries about management, doesn't get on base and when he does make contact, it's usually a fly ball to center.

Bo Hart isn't the answer, at least for the leadoff spot, but he make spectactular plays in the field and, with more seasoning, will improve on the mental errors.

BTW, if you don't think the Cardinals are an intelligent orginazation, would you rather have Fernando Vina or Albert Pujols? Because, that's pretty much what it comes down to. Albert is now arbitration eligible and his salary is about to skyrocket.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

It's funny, among all this you conveniently forget to mention that he was injured pretty much half the season this last season, and that was what caused his dismal outings. Just because you don't want to give him a chance doesn't mean he's a bad player. I don't quite get how you could take my comments as such a full on frontal attack. I mean, you don't even give the guy a chance and yet you talk about Bo Hart, who after his awesome start this summer didn't do much of ANYTHING the rest of the year, and yet you give him all the hope in the world? That's kind of hypocritical, isn't it? I don't doubt Hart is going to be a good player, but you're simply acting as if Vina outright sucks wastewater, and I would HOPE we BOTH believe that's not true, and that you were infact just VENTING. I'm not even a big fan of the Cards, but they are one of my favorite teams. All I was saying is that Vina isn't as god awful as everyone is pretending he is. Like I said before, if the Cards don't want him I'm sure there are MANY other teams that would LOVE to have him. Now lets stop arguing over Vina and get to the real question, how to get rid of Tino?

[Stoud]

Re: Vina\'s option not picked up by the Cardinals

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
BigRed said:
Vina's not worth the money he's being paid as a second baseman/leadoff hitter. Period.

Sure he's one of the best around defensively, but there's plenty of good defensive 2nd basemen that can get on base that the team needs more.

Consider this. In 2001, Vina hit .303. In 2002, he hit .270 and in 2003 he hit .251.

Also, since we're talking about a leadoff hitter, since 2000, his OBP has gone from .380 to .357 to .333 to .309 this season.

And aren't leadoff hitters supposed to work counts and take walks? Not Fernando.

He whines and cries about management, doesn't get on base and when he does make contact, it's usually a fly ball to center.

Bo Hart isn't the answer, at least for the leadoff spot, but he make spectactular plays in the field and, with more seasoning, will improve on the mental errors.

BTW, if you don't think the Cardinals are an intelligent orginazation, would you rather have Fernando Vina or Albert Pujols? Because, that's pretty much what it comes down to. Albert is now arbitration eligible and his salary is about to skyrocket.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

It's funny, among all this you conveniently forget to mention that he was injured pretty much half the season this last season, and that was what caused his dismal outings. Just because you don't want to give him a chance doesn't mean he's a bad player. I don't quite get how you could take my comments as such a full on frontal attack. I mean, you don't even give the guy a chance and yet you talk about Bo Hart, who after his awesome start this summer didn't do much of ANYTHING the rest of the year, and yet you give him all the hope in the world? That's kind of hypocritical, isn't it? I don't doubt Hart is going to be a good player, but you're simply acting as if Vina outright sucks wastewater, and I would HOPE we BOTH believe that's not true, and that you were infact just VENTING. I'm not even a big fan of the Cards, but they are one of my favorite teams. All I was saying is that Vina isn't as god awful as everyone is pretending he is. Like I said before, if the Cards don't want him I'm sure there are MANY other teams that would LOVE to have him. Now lets stop arguing over Vina and get to the real question, how to get rid of Tino?

[pol]

Re: Vina\'s option not picked up by the Cardinals

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Stoud said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
BigRed said:
Vina's not worth the money he's being paid as a second baseman/leadoff hitter. Period.

Sure he's one of the best around defensively, but there's plenty of good defensive 2nd basemen that can get on base that the team needs more.

Consider this. In 2001, Vina hit .303. In 2002, he hit .270 and in 2003 he hit .251.

Also, since we're talking about a leadoff hitter, since 2000, his OBP has gone from .380 to .357 to .333 to .309 this season.

And aren't leadoff hitters supposed to work counts and take walks? Not Fernando.

He whines and cries about management, doesn't get on base and when he does make contact, it's usually a fly ball to center.

Bo Hart isn't the answer, at least for the leadoff spot, but he make spectactular plays in the field and, with more seasoning, will improve on the mental errors.

BTW, if you don't think the Cardinals are an intelligent orginazation, would you rather have Fernando Vina or Albert Pujols? Because, that's pretty much what it comes down to. Albert is now arbitration eligible and his salary is about to skyrocket.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

It's funny, among all this you conveniently forget to mention that he was injured pretty much half the season this last season, and that was what caused his dismal outings. Just because you don't want to give him a chance doesn't mean he's a bad player. I don't quite get how you could take my comments as such a full on frontal attack. I mean, you don't even give the guy a chance and yet you talk about Bo Hart, who after his awesome start this summer didn't do much of ANYTHING the rest of the year, and yet you give him all the hope in the world? That's kind of hypocritical, isn't it? I don't doubt Hart is going to be a good player, but you're simply acting as if Vina outright sucks wastewater, and I would HOPE we BOTH believe that's not true, and that you were infact just VENTING. I'm not even a big fan of the Cards, but they are one of my favorite teams. All I was saying is that Vina isn't as god awful as everyone is pretending he is. Like I said before, if the Cards don't want him I'm sure there are MANY other teams that would LOVE to have him. Now lets stop arguing over Vina and get to the real question, how to get rid of Tino?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

hart isnt anything more then a reserve.. everyone in stl should know that.. vina wasnt any good the year before his injury as well. id keep vina if it was for cheaper.. but he isnt worth the money he is making or will make.. what has he done in his career to be thought of so highly? he has never been a consistent 300 hitter? he isnt all that fast.. he doesnt steal bases.. he doesnt walk.. his only good qualities are his D and grit.. and those arent worth the 4.5mil he was gonna make unless the cardinals played in NY.

[pol]

Re: Vina\'s option not picked up by the Cardinals

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Stoud said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
BigRed said:
Vina's not worth the money he's being paid as a second baseman/leadoff hitter. Period.

Sure he's one of the best around defensively, but there's plenty of good defensive 2nd basemen that can get on base that the team needs more.

Consider this. In 2001, Vina hit .303. In 2002, he hit .270 and in 2003 he hit .251.

Also, since we're talking about a leadoff hitter, since 2000, his OBP has gone from .380 to .357 to .333 to .309 this season.

And aren't leadoff hitters supposed to work counts and take walks? Not Fernando.

He whines and cries about management, doesn't get on base and when he does make contact, it's usually a fly ball to center.

Bo Hart isn't the answer, at least for the leadoff spot, but he make spectactular plays in the field and, with more seasoning, will improve on the mental errors.

BTW, if you don't think the Cardinals are an intelligent orginazation, would you rather have Fernando Vina or Albert Pujols? Because, that's pretty much what it comes down to. Albert is now arbitration eligible and his salary is about to skyrocket.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

It's funny, among all this you conveniently forget to mention that he was injured pretty much half the season this last season, and that was what caused his dismal outings. Just because you don't want to give him a chance doesn't mean he's a bad player. I don't quite get how you could take my comments as such a full on frontal attack. I mean, you don't even give the guy a chance and yet you talk about Bo Hart, who after his awesome start this summer didn't do much of ANYTHING the rest of the year, and yet you give him all the hope in the world? That's kind of hypocritical, isn't it? I don't doubt Hart is going to be a good player, but you're simply acting as if Vina outright sucks wastewater, and I would HOPE we BOTH believe that's not true, and that you were infact just VENTING. I'm not even a big fan of the Cards, but they are one of my favorite teams. All I was saying is that Vina isn't as god awful as everyone is pretending he is. Like I said before, if the Cards don't want him I'm sure there are MANY other teams that would LOVE to have him. Now lets stop arguing over Vina and get to the real question, how to get rid of Tino?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

hart isnt anything more then a reserve.. everyone in stl should know that.. vina wasnt any good the year before his injury as well. id keep vina if it was for cheaper.. but he isnt worth the money he is making or will make.. what has he done in his career to be thought of so highly? he has never been a consistent 300 hitter? he isnt all that fast.. he doesnt steal bases.. he doesnt walk.. his only good qualities are his D and grit.. and those arent worth the 4.5mil he was gonna make unless the cardinals played in NY.

[pol]

Re: Vina\'s option not picked up by the Cardinals

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Stoud said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
BigRed said:
Vina's not worth the money he's being paid as a second baseman/leadoff hitter. Period.

Sure he's one of the best around defensively, but there's plenty of good defensive 2nd basemen that can get on base that the team needs more.

Consider this. In 2001, Vina hit .303. In 2002, he hit .270 and in 2003 he hit .251.

Also, since we're talking about a leadoff hitter, since 2000, his OBP has gone from .380 to .357 to .333 to .309 this season.

And aren't leadoff hitters supposed to work counts and take walks? Not Fernando.

He whines and cries about management, doesn't get on base and when he does make contact, it's usually a fly ball to center.

Bo Hart isn't the answer, at least for the leadoff spot, but he make spectactular plays in the field and, with more seasoning, will improve on the mental errors.

BTW, if you don't think the Cardinals are an intelligent orginazation, would you rather have Fernando Vina or Albert Pujols? Because, that's pretty much what it comes down to. Albert is now arbitration eligible and his salary is about to skyrocket.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

It's funny, among all this you conveniently forget to mention that he was injured pretty much half the season this last season, and that was what caused his dismal outings. Just because you don't want to give him a chance doesn't mean he's a bad player. I don't quite get how you could take my comments as such a full on frontal attack. I mean, you don't even give the guy a chance and yet you talk about Bo Hart, who after his awesome start this summer didn't do much of ANYTHING the rest of the year, and yet you give him all the hope in the world? That's kind of hypocritical, isn't it? I don't doubt Hart is going to be a good player, but you're simply acting as if Vina outright sucks wastewater, and I would HOPE we BOTH believe that's not true, and that you were infact just VENTING. I'm not even a big fan of the Cards, but they are one of my favorite teams. All I was saying is that Vina isn't as god awful as everyone is pretending he is. Like I said before, if the Cards don't want him I'm sure there are MANY other teams that would LOVE to have him. Now lets stop arguing over Vina and get to the real question, how to get rid of Tino?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

hart isnt anything more then a reserve.. everyone in stl should know that.. vina wasnt any good the year before his injury as well. id keep vina if it was for cheaper.. but he isnt worth the money he is making or will make.. what has he done in his career to be thought of so highly? he has never been a consistent 300 hitter? he isnt all that fast.. he doesnt steal bases.. he doesnt walk.. his only good qualities are his D and grit.. and those arent worth the 4.5mil he was gonna make unless the cardinals played in NY.

[pol]

Re: Vina\'s option not picked up by the Cardinals

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
BigRed said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Stoud said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Rag3vsW0rld said:
So I guess Bo Hart stole the job from Vina, how good can the Cards get in Second Base if Vina isn't good enough for them.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Words like that will get you thwarted in the future (for all we know they could get Soriano or something), but I agree completely. Vina is an awesome Second Basemen, and if the Cards don't want him, there's guaranteed to be more than enough teams out there who DO, who are actually INTELLIGENT. No offense or anything, but not picking up a great second basemen like Vina is like "not taking a swing at that easy changeup means...you can take a seat!"

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Vina's not worth the money he's being paid as a second baseman/leadoff hitter. Period.

Sure he's one of the best around defensively, but there's plenty of good defensive 2nd basemen that can get on base that the team needs more.

Consider this. In 2001, Vina hit .303. In 2002, he hit .270 and in 2003 he hit .251.

Also, since we're talking about a leadoff hitter, since 2000, his OBP has gone from .380 to .357 to .333 to .309 this season.

And aren't leadoff hitters supposed to work counts and take walks? Not Fernando.

He whines and cries about management, doesn't get on base and when he does make contact, it's usually a fly ball to center.

Bo Hart isn't the answer, at least for the leadoff spot, but he make spectactular plays in the field and, with more seasoning, will improve on the mental errors.

BTW, if you don't think the Cardinals are an intelligent orginazation, would you rather have Fernando Vina or Albert Pujols? Because, that's pretty much what it comes down to. Albert is now arbitration eligible and his salary is about to skyrocket.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

i dont agree that hart is the answer.. as a reserve yes.. but not as a starter. if he started.. he wouldnt be a leadoff hitter.. he doesnt walk either.. and he doesnt work counts..his D is pretty good.. range wise and with the glove.. but he doesnt turn the double play all that quickly. i think he could be an excellent utility guy if they can get him playing corner outfield as well as both middle infield posistions.

[pol]

Re: Vina\'s option not picked up by the Cardinals

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
BigRed said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Stoud said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Rag3vsW0rld said:
So I guess Bo Hart stole the job from Vina, how good can the Cards get in Second Base if Vina isn't good enough for them.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Words like that will get you thwarted in the future (for all we know they could get Soriano or something), but I agree completely. Vina is an awesome Second Basemen, and if the Cards don't want him, there's guaranteed to be more than enough teams out there who DO, who are actually INTELLIGENT. No offense or anything, but not picking up a great second basemen like Vina is like "not taking a swing at that easy changeup means...you can take a seat!"

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Vina's not worth the money he's being paid as a second baseman/leadoff hitter. Period.

Sure he's one of the best around defensively, but there's plenty of good defensive 2nd basemen that can get on base that the team needs more.

Consider this. In 2001, Vina hit .303. In 2002, he hit .270 and in 2003 he hit .251.

Also, since we're talking about a leadoff hitter, since 2000, his OBP has gone from .380 to .357 to .333 to .309 this season.

And aren't leadoff hitters supposed to work counts and take walks? Not Fernando.

He whines and cries about management, doesn't get on base and when he does make contact, it's usually a fly ball to center.

Bo Hart isn't the answer, at least for the leadoff spot, but he make spectactular plays in the field and, with more seasoning, will improve on the mental errors.

BTW, if you don't think the Cardinals are an intelligent orginazation, would you rather have Fernando Vina or Albert Pujols? Because, that's pretty much what it comes down to. Albert is now arbitration eligible and his salary is about to skyrocket.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

i dont agree that hart is the answer.. as a reserve yes.. but not as a starter. if he started.. he wouldnt be a leadoff hitter.. he doesnt walk either.. and he doesnt work counts..his D is pretty good.. range wise and with the glove.. but he doesnt turn the double play all that quickly. i think he could be an excellent utility guy if they can get him playing corner outfield as well as both middle infield posistions.

[pol]

Re: Vina\'s option not picked up by the Cardinals

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
BigRed said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Stoud said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Rag3vsW0rld said:
So I guess Bo Hart stole the job from Vina, how good can the Cards get in Second Base if Vina isn't good enough for them.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Words like that will get you thwarted in the future (for all we know they could get Soriano or something), but I agree completely. Vina is an awesome Second Basemen, and if the Cards don't want him, there's guaranteed to be more than enough teams out there who DO, who are actually INTELLIGENT. No offense or anything, but not picking up a great second basemen like Vina is like "not taking a swing at that easy changeup means...you can take a seat!"

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Vina's not worth the money he's being paid as a second baseman/leadoff hitter. Period.

Sure he's one of the best around defensively, but there's plenty of good defensive 2nd basemen that can get on base that the team needs more.

Consider this. In 2001, Vina hit .303. In 2002, he hit .270 and in 2003 he hit .251.

Also, since we're talking about a leadoff hitter, since 2000, his OBP has gone from .380 to .357 to .333 to .309 this season.

And aren't leadoff hitters supposed to work counts and take walks? Not Fernando.

He whines and cries about management, doesn't get on base and when he does make contact, it's usually a fly ball to center.

Bo Hart isn't the answer, at least for the leadoff spot, but he make spectactular plays in the field and, with more seasoning, will improve on the mental errors.

BTW, if you don't think the Cardinals are an intelligent orginazation, would you rather have Fernando Vina or Albert Pujols? Because, that's pretty much what it comes down to. Albert is now arbitration eligible and his salary is about to skyrocket.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

i dont agree that hart is the answer.. as a reserve yes.. but not as a starter. if he started.. he wouldnt be a leadoff hitter.. he doesnt walk either.. and he doesnt work counts..his D is pretty good.. range wise and with the glove.. but he doesnt turn the double play all that quickly. i think he could be an excellent utility guy if they can get him playing corner outfield as well as both middle infield posistions.

[triplej96]

Re: Vina\'s option not picked up by the Cardinals

Damn it they didnt resign Jeff Fassero....lol j/k freaking retire already please. We really need to address the picthing and get rid of JD Drew and try to get somthing in return.

[triplej96]

Re: Vina\'s option not picked up by the Cardinals

Damn it they didnt resign Jeff Fassero....lol j/k freaking retire already please. We really need to address the picthing and get rid of JD Drew and try to get somthing in return.