Losing team accuses Winning team of cheating....again

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  • Majingir
    Moderator
    • Apr 2005
    • 47605

    #1

    Losing team accuses Winning team of cheating....again

    Last year it was the Red Sox/Yankees.

    This year, it's the O's....




    This is getting annoying. Will teams ever just admit they lose instead of blaming a team for cheating. They sound like a bunch of 10 year olds whose only reason for losing is cause the other team cheated.

    Like I said last year when people accused the Jays of this(as well as for the past 5+ years), if they really were doing this, one of their former players for sure would have said that the Jays do this.

    Wells,Overbay,Hill,Glaus,Hillenbrand(left on bad note),Burnett(was a pitcher,but left on a bad note) as well as any other player on the roster from 2005-2011 would have probably said something about this issue. But nobody is, so that should be proof right there that Jays aren't doing what teams(aka the AL EAST teams) are accusing them of doing.

    And if teams are really concerned about this stuff, why not just film the OF stands and get proof that someone is actually signaling signs to the Jays hitters.

    Really wanna get peoples opinions from other teams(not just Jays fans) on this issue.
    Last edited by Majingir; 05-31-2012, 12:35 PM.
  • cavsfan2
    MVP
    • Aug 2010
    • 3902

    #2
    Re: Losing team accuses Winning team of cheating....again

    But it isnt as simple as "losing team accuses winning team" It more like "losing team accuses Blue Jays". Im not saying that the Jays are cheating, its just weird that the Jays are really the only team being accused. Maybe its just one team thought they legitamately saw some cheating and now everyone is suspicious so other teams think they see something they dont. Idk

    Comment

    • djep
      MVP
      • Feb 2003
      • 1128

      #3
      Re: Losing team accuses Winning team of cheating....again

      If this was something systemic with the Jays you would think there would be some whistleblowers once they leave the organization

      Comment

      • Majingir
        Moderator
        • Apr 2005
        • 47605

        #4
        Re: Losing team accuses Winning team of cheating....again

        Originally posted by djep
        If this was something systemic with the Jays you would think there would be some whistleblowers once they leave the organization
        That's the point. Especially since the Jays have had a few players leave on bad terms, so they'd be more than willing to reveal what the Jays do.

        And like I said, these accusations have been going on for years, even when Jays had diff gm,coach,players.

        You think Cito Gaston went to Farrell and is like "See that guy in the outfield? When you become coach, he'll be the reason we can hit good"

        Comment

        • sydrogerdavid
          MVP
          • May 2009
          • 3109

          #5
          Re: Losing team accuses Winning team of cheating....again

          But Kenny Rodgers did cheat in 2006.

          Comment

          • SPTO
            binging
            • Feb 2003
            • 68046

            #6
            Re: Losing team accuses Winning team of cheating....again

            If the Jays were doing this don't you think they would've done that against the O's earlier this season?

            I don't know why everybody accuses the Blue Jays of this, I mean i've seen plenty of games where the Jays can't hit the broadside of a barn at home but as soon as they start raking (the Rogers Centre plays a lot smaller than its dimensions especially with the roof open and a humid temperature) everyone starts crying foul.

            It's getting VERY annoying.
            Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

            "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

            Comment

            • jth1331
              MVP
              • Aug 2003
              • 1060

              #7
              Re: Losing team accuses Winning team of cheating....again

              There has to be something to the issue, and just because former players haven't said anything doesn't mean they are off the hook.

              Personally, I do think its overblown, because a man in the stands relaying signals to the batter would take way too long. I don't see AT ALL how it could work. A batter has probably a couple seconds from when the pitcher accepts the pitch and location, to when he releases the ball.
              7 National Championships
              43 Conference Championships
              152 All-Americans
              5 Heisman Trophy Winners
              #1 in weeks ranked #1 in AP Poll
              #1 in weeks ranked top 5 in AP Poll
              #1 in wins/winning percentage since 1946
              Oklahoma Sooners, Boomer Sooner!

              Comment

              • Blzer
                Resident film pundit
                • Mar 2004
                • 42520

                #8
                Re: Losing team accuses Winning team of cheating....again

                Originally posted by jth1331
                Personally, I do think its overblown, because a man in the stands relaying signals to the batter would take way too long. I don't see AT ALL how it could work. A batter has probably a couple seconds from when the pitcher accepts the pitch and location, to when he releases the ball.
                Not that this is the same thing, but we picked signs all the time on my baseball team, and I do it for my softball players as well. I don't think of it as "cheating" for two reasons: 1) as far as softball goes, I'm trying to teach them how to get a competitive advantage and how to dominate the game in a mental aspect (in other words, turn on an inside fastball when you know it's coming); 2) that's what signs are for... as an attempt to conceal messages from the other team. If they fail to do so, that's on them baby. My point of all that is that "two seconds" is plenty of time. The fan doesn't have to raise his arm and signal fingers or anything. There are multiple upon multiple ways of delivering signs.

                Anyway, I think I said it in the old thread, but if signs are being picked beyond what the players can see, then I do think it's cheating. So if a fan is doing it, I don't see that as being "legitimate." I'm not saying the Blue Jays are doing it, though.
                Samsung PN60F8500 PDP / Anthem MRX 720 / Klipsch RC-62 II / Klipsch RF-82 II (x2) / Insignia NS-B2111 (x2) / SVS PC13-Ultra / SVS SB-2000 / Sony MDR-7506 Professional / Audio-Technica ATH-R70x / Sony PS3 & PS4 / DirecTV HR44-500 / DarbeeVision DVP-5000 / Panamax M5400-PM / Elgato HD60

                Comment

                • jth1331
                  MVP
                  • Aug 2003
                  • 1060

                  #9
                  Re: Losing team accuses Winning team of cheating....again

                  Originally posted by Blzer
                  Not that this is the same thing, but we picked signs all the time on my baseball team, and I do it for my softball players as well. I don't think of it as "cheating" for two reasons: 1) as far as softball goes, I'm trying to teach them how to get a competitive advantage and how to dominate the game in a mental aspect (in other words, turn on an inside fastball when you know it's coming); 2) that's what signs are for... as an attempt to conceal messages from the other team. If they fail to do so, that's on them baby. My point of all that is that "two seconds" is plenty of time. The fan doesn't have to raise his arm and signal fingers or anything. There are multiple upon multiple ways of delivering signs.

                  Anyway, I think I said it in the old thread, but if signs are being picked beyond what the players can see, then I do think it's cheating. So if a fan is doing it, I don't see that as being "legitimate." I'm not saying the Blue Jays are doing it, though.
                  Yes, if a runner on 2nd is relaying the signs, then that is easy to pick up and deliver the signs to the hitter, and completely within the rules IMO.
                  A fan doing it though, from the OF, seems a bit far fetched to me. With a runner on 2nd, the batter could easily pick up on a secret sign to let him know what could be coming. From the OF? How the heck is he going to pick up anything? Like I said, it just seems far fetched to me to relay signs from a fan in the OF to the hitter in time so they can jump on the pitch.
                  7 National Championships
                  43 Conference Championships
                  152 All-Americans
                  5 Heisman Trophy Winners
                  #1 in weeks ranked #1 in AP Poll
                  #1 in weeks ranked top 5 in AP Poll
                  #1 in wins/winning percentage since 1946
                  Oklahoma Sooners, Boomer Sooner!

                  Comment

                  • p_rushing
                    Hall Of Fame
                    • Feb 2004
                    • 14514

                    #10
                    Re: Losing team accuses Winning team of cheating....again

                    Originally posted by jth1331
                    Yes, if a runner on 2nd is relaying the signs, then that is easy to pick up and deliver the signs to the hitter, and completely within the rules IMO.
                    A fan doing it though, from the OF, seems a bit far fetched to me. With a runner on 2nd, the batter could easily pick up on a secret sign to let him know what could be coming. From the OF? How the heck is he going to pick up anything? Like I said, it just seems far fetched to me to relay signs from a fan in the OF to the hitter in time so they can jump on the pitch.
                    It's very easy to get a sign from a fan sitting in the outfield. It isn't location, it is just the pitch type. Knowing if a fastball or breaking ball is coming will help a lot. A hitter can figure out the rest.

                    Comment

                    • SPTO
                      binging
                      • Feb 2003
                      • 68046

                      #11
                      Re: Losing team accuses Winning team of cheating....again

                      Here's the thing I don't understand, how the heck is a fan sitting in the stands supposed to tell what's being called? I guess they can look at the opponents dugout and do it that way but then why go to all that trouble when you can do that on the field if you're the Blue Jays. I mean sitting in the stands wouldn't it be a bit hard to see the catcher's fingers going through the signs?
                      Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

                      "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

                      Comment

                      • p_rushing
                        Hall Of Fame
                        • Feb 2004
                        • 14514

                        #12
                        Re: Losing team accuses Winning team of cheating....again

                        Binoculars have been around for a long time.

                        Comment

                        • goh
                          Banned
                          • Aug 2003
                          • 20755

                          #13
                          Re: Losing team accuses Winning team of cheating....again

                          If a fan could read the signs and know what pitch is coming...there's no rule keeping them from holding up an actual sign is there? Like they have a sign that says fastball on it and holding it up?

                          Even then if you think your signs are being stolen change them.

                          <iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JcXWsibiiPk?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

                          I dunno what he called.

                          Comment

                          • SPTO
                            binging
                            • Feb 2003
                            • 68046

                            #14
                            Re: Losing team accuses Winning team of cheating....again

                            Originally posted by p_rushing
                            Binoculars have been around for a long time.
                            I guess you're right but you'd think that if there's some rogue fan in the stands that TV cameras would've caught said person ages ago.
                            Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

                            "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

                            Comment

                            • DrJones
                              All Star
                              • Mar 2003
                              • 9109

                              #15
                              Re: Losing team accuses Winning team of cheating....again

                              Here's the original ESPN Outside the Lines article about this from last year:



                              As I recall, the unnamed team with the original complaints from early 2010 was the White Sox.
                              Originally posted by Thrash13
                              Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.
                              Originally posted by slickdtc
                              DrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.
                              Originally posted by Kipnis22
                              yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your post

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