The Pittsburgh Pirates Part Deux

[Baseballking888]

Re: The Pittsburgh Pirates Part Deux

The Pirates happened to suffer from 19 inningitus.

[royals19]

Re: The Pittsburgh Pirates Part Deux

Pirates aren't the kind of team that can afford to start the service clock on their top prospects before they really need to.

If the Rays did it with David Price then why can't the Pirates do it with Cole/Taillon? The Rays payroll in 2008 was lower than the Pirates payroll and they've been able to retain him this far. This year the Pirates' payroll is barely 1 million less than the Rays'. So really, money shouldn't factor into this decision at all.

[jth1331]

Re: The Pittsburgh Pirates Part Deux

Pirates need to go 7-2 to finish with a +.500 record. Doubt it happens.

[DrJones]

Re: The Pittsburgh Pirates Part Deux

If the Rays did it with David Price then why can't the Pirates do it with Cole/Taillon? The Rays payroll in 2008 was lower than the Pirates payroll and they've been able to retain him this far. This year the Pirates' payroll is barely 1 million less than the Rays'. So really, money shouldn't factor into this decision at all.

Got nothing to do with (current) payroll. It's about controlling when your players become eligible for a.) arbitration and b.) free agency. Price wasn't called up by the Rays until mid-September, when the Rays were all but guaranteed a playoff spot. He was called up to be a bullpen weapon for the playoffs (see also Rodriguez, Francisco, 2002), not to save a collapsing also-ran.

[lonewolf371]

Re: The Pittsburgh Pirates Part Deux

Oddly enough I like the Pirates' future now more than I did when they were winning tons of games in May. Back then the Pirates were on track for having the worst offense in MLB history, but look at them now and you see a lot of young guys that have played fairly well over the season. Alvarez has flashed some power and a good walk rate, Walker is probably one of the best offensive 2B in the game, and Jones had a pretty good season as well. None of those guys are likely to get worse next year.

On the pitching end of things, obviously no long-term success is going to be built on Burnett or Bedard. Karstens really improved his K-rate, but only for a half a season, so I don't know if that will last long-term. Correia is just bad. The one guy I like now and think may improve in the future is still McDonald. He has a good K-rate and made some progress in bringing his walk rate down this year. If it keeps going down he will be an elite pitcher. Obviously there's a lot of questions for this rotation, though.

[spacefunk]

Re: The Pittsburgh Pirates Part Deux

The collapse is complete. The Pirates lost their 82nd game today for the 20th straight season. Only team in baseball history to be 16 games over .500 after 110 games only to finish with a losing record. Will heads roll? Of course not. They already came out this week and said the front office and the manager will stay intact for what we all know will be their 21st straight losing season. So clearly they're not embarrassed by this collapse. What about MLB? They have to be embarrassed by this franchise. Will they say anything? Will they do anything about it? Nope. That would mean Bud Selig would actually have to sit up. The frustration with these bums is getting to the point where if they starter 80-0 everyone would assume they'll finish 80-82. The future is not bright. These guys don't know how to play August or September baseball. Let alone October baseball.

[BurghFan]

Re: The Pittsburgh Pirates Part Deux

Yeah, the collapse was disappointing, but it occurred about a month later than it did in 2011 so that should be a sign of progress. And they still finished better than last year and with their best record since going 79-83 back in '97. They just need to find a way to get over that late season hump. The issue seems to be that they just get tired near the end of the season like their conditioning isn't good enough to allow them to get through a 162 game season.

[DirrtySouth78]

Re: The Pittsburgh Pirates Part Deux

AS a Lifelong Pirates fan, I was a lil dissapointed in late season swoon, but can't say I was surpirised.

Yeah everyone here in Pgh was up in arms over it, but if you had said at beginning of season we would win 79 games I would've taken it. They played above thier head for awhile, then came back down to earth. Plus the talent level on team wasn't as good as some people think it is. I'd rather they wait to make postseason when they have a talented team over getting to playoffs only to have a one & done postseason.

For all the flak that people give the team, they are finally pointed in right direction & have turned the attitude of the organization and also have city paying attention to baseball again.

Also tired of same old arguement over Payroll/How spending more Money= Success.. First off, if you were owner last 20 years, why would you spend $100 Mill to lose 90+ games? Everyone got upset over Jason Bays, Jack Wisons, Freddy Sanchez's, etc...Why pay these guys millions & millions when we losing?? Outside of Aramis Ramirez, I don't recall one player I was upset they let go.

Owners have said if they win they will pay, but won't reward losing with big contracts. Guess what, They have. Last few years they have signed guys to extentions & added payroll at deadline. It's not about how much you spend, it's how you spend it.

And for all the "small Market" excuses people try and use over why They can't spend the $$, let that excuse go. Never hear that abut Steelers or Pens. They have money, just choose not to spend it on the wrong players.