If you were building a team...

[Sportsforever]

Re: If you were building a team...

I am no Braves or Cubs fan, but if I had to pick a pitcher, going on all of the pitchers I have seen, to me it starts with Maddux. I don't even think it's that close.

Funny thing is at one point I thought Steve Avery was going to be the best pitcher for the Braves for years to come.

He might have been if not for pitching with an injury in 1995. Poor decision by the Braves in handling one of my favorite players. As a Braves fan, that early 1990's period is probably one of my favorites because you had Glavine, Avery, and Smoltz who were all out of our system (Smoltz by way of the Tigers) and they were all developing into studs. Adding Maddux was icing on the cake. The funny thing is that in 1991 I thought Smoltz would be the one to fizzle out/not go far because he was so mentally weak. A lot of people forget, but Smoltz had to have a sports psychologist sit behind home plate when he pitched.

It was a fun time to be a fan...

[bkrich83]

Re: If you were building a team...

I don't think this discussion is an attempt to diminish Pedro. If I had one game to start and both pitchers are in their primes, I'd probably take Pedro. The point is that Maddux had a greater career and that is what I would look at when it comes to selecting who I want on my team for the duration of their career. Pedro was an all-time great, but Maddux was an all-time great for twice as long.

Single game who's your choice? Pedro? Over Clemens or Randy Johnson or Schilling?

[Sportsforever]

Re: If you were building a team...

Single game who's your choice? Pedro? Over Clemens or Randy Johnson or Schilling?

No, that was between Maddux or Pedro (and it's not a slam dunk). Single game, all time in their prime it's probably Koufax or Gibson.

Of guys I've seen, I'd go with Schilling or Smoltz.

[bkrich83]

Re: If you were building a team...

No, that was between Maddux or Pedro (and it's not a slam dunk). Single game, all time in their prime it's probably Koufax or Gibson.

Of guys I've seen, I'd go with Schilling or Smoltz.

I just looked at Schilling's post season numbers. Ridiculous.

People talk about the bloody sock, but forget how dominant he was in 93. You should remember that as a Braves guy.

[Sportsforever]

Re: If you were building a team...

I just looked at Schilling's post season numbers. Ridiculous.

People talk about the bloody sock, but forget how dominant he was in 93. You should remember that as a Braves guy.

Oh, I do. Check out Smoltz's post season numbers:

15-4, 2.67 ERA, 209 IP

Before Schilling cemented himself in the 2000's, everyone was talking about Smoltz as the greatest big game pitcher of his generation.

[bkrich83]

Re: If you were building a team...

Oh, I do. Check out Smoltz's post season numbers:

15-4, 2.67 ERA, 209 IP

Before Schilling cemented himself in the 2000's, everyone was talking about Smoltz as the greatest big game pitcher of his generation.

Schilling was 11-2, 2.23 ERA in 133 IP, 120 K, 25 BB.

I was thinking the same thing. Schilling or Smoltz.

[Sportsforever]

Re: If you were building a team...

Schilling was 11-2, 2.23 ERA in 133 IP, 120 K, 25 BB.

I was thinking the same thing. Schilling or Smoltz.

Yes, too me, what made Schilling amazing from about 1997 on was his insane strikeout rate and minuscule walk rate...made for incredible K/BB rates.

One thing I really liked about Schilling was his attitude...the thrived in those situations and wanted a chance for the spotlight to fall on him. Interestingly enough, I have always thought of him as a Hall of Very Good pitcher, but reading some stuff recently I'm starting to think Schilling will be a HOF'r someday.

[bkrich83]

Re: If you were building a team...

Yes, too me, what made Schilling amazing from about 1997 on was his insane strikeout rate and minuscule walk rate...made for incredible K/BB rates.

One thing I really liked about Schilling was his attitude...the thrived in those situations and wanted a chance for the spotlight to fall on him. Interestingly enough, I have always thought of him as a Hall of Very Good pitcher, but reading some stuff recently I'm starting to think Schilling will be a HOF'r someday.

I would vote Schilling in to the HOF given his very good regular season track record and his ridiculous post season track record. His resume in the regular season alone does not merit entrance imo.

[Sportsforever]

Re: If you were building a team...

I would vote Schilling in to the HOF given his very good regular season track record and his ridiculous post season track record. His resume in the regular season alone does not merit entrance imo.

Yes, his 216 career wins or whatever don't look all that great when compared to other HOF'rs, but for his era it's solid, he put up great K/BB rates, and was probably the best post-season pitcher of his generation. You add it all up plus the stuff like the bloody sock, the 2001 WS, and I can see him getting in one day.

[CabreraMVP]

Re: If you were building a team...

I loved the type of presence Pedro had. He was such a great competitor. Many great scuffles with New York. His all star game performance. He would just say here it is, try to hit, and blow anybody away.

Maddux is one of the most impressive pitchers of all time, just the way he dominated while throwing a mid '80's fastball. That's unheard of. He was a perfectionist in the most unperfect game.

If I could go back in time, and witness any single season performance, it would be Pedro in 2000. I was 6 years old, I would love to see it today and just the way he dominated every inning of every game. Or Mark Fidyrich 1976 season where he took over baseball. He would sell out the stadium every where he went, talking to the ball, patting down the mound, he was a character for sure.

[55]

Re: If you were building a team...

Sabrmetrics are a sham.

Alright, too tempting not to do it...

[Sportsforever]

Re: If you were building a team...

I loved the type of presence Pedro had. He was such a great competitor. Many great scuffles with New York. His all star game performance. He would just say here it is, try to hit, and blow anybody away.

Maddux is one of the most impressive pitchers of all time, just the way he dominated while throwing a mid '80's fastball. That's unheard of. He was a perfectionist in the most unperfect game.

If I could go back in time, and witness any single season performance, it would be Pedro in 2000. I was 6 years old, I would love to see it today and just the way he dominated every inning of every game. Or Mark Fidyrich 1976 season where he took over baseball. He would sell out the stadium every where he went, talking to the ball, patting down the mound, he was a character for sure.

I think you are remembering 40 year old Maddux, but when he was in his prime he touched 93 and consistently sat around 91-92 on the fastball with movement. Yes, by the 2000's and on he was down around 85, but in his prime he wasn't Jamie Moyer or anything.

[bkrich83]

Re: If you were building a team...

Alright, too tempting not to do it...

Great, do it. Why would it bother me?

[bkrich83]

Re: If you were building a team...

I think you are remembering 40 year old Maddux, but when he was in his prime he touched 93 and consistently sat around 91-92 on the fastball with movement. Yes, by the 2000's and on he was down around 85, but in his prime he wasn't Jamie Moyer or anything.

It's when he got down to 88-91 that he really got the movement and his effectiveness really took off. He essentially learned how to pitch.

[CabreraMVP]

Re: If you were building a team...

I think you are remembering 40 year old Maddux, but when he was in his prime he touched 93 and consistently sat around 91-92 on the fastball with movement. Yes, by the 2000's and on he was down around 85, but in his prime he wasn't Jamie Moyer or anything.

Yeah, I should have said that. I'm thinking of the Maddux I briefly saw pitch.

I love watching Doug Fister because he's in the same mold of Maddux. Fister rarely touches 91, a lot of times he sits at 88, but he hits his spots and keeps the hitters off balance. Guys just can't square him up. Watching a pitcher paint the corners, move the ball all around the plate, it's impressive.
He inspired me to pick up a 2 seam fastball this year, and focus more on location. I became a much more effective pitcher when I did that.

A lot of these guys today can throw 95 but they can't pitch. If more of these younger pitchers could learn the art of pitching and changing speed/locations, they would be so much better.I see a lot of guys my age who can throw 80+, but they just throw it. If they just learned a changeup, and how to locate a curveball, they would be unhittable. Or they can use all the strength they have to throw 80, but they walk everybody. Tone it down to 75, hit your spots, and you would dominate. A friend of mine was the top pitcher at our school all throughout high school, but he wasn't a hard thrower. Even in little league, he didn't throw hard. But he knew how to pitch and change speeds. And got a scholarship to a decent college because of it.