How do you look at defensive statistics?

[CabreraMVP]

How do you guys go about analyzing defense? With all these statistics out, everybody has their own way. I don't think any one stat is "great" for analyzing a guys defense and a lot of times they are misleading.

I look at these numbers but don't use them as the end all thing for players. I find the eye test works best. For players I watch everyday, at least.

[Sportsforever]

Re: How do you look at defensive statistics?

How do you guys go about analyzing defense? With all these statistics out, everybody has their own way. I don't think any one stat is "great" for analyzing a guys defense and a lot of times they are misleading.

I look at these numbers but don't use them as the end all thing for players. I find the eye test works best. For players I watch everyday, at least.

This is an interesting discussion that I have been heavily involved in over the years. One of my hobbies that I spend the most time on is table top baseball simulations (Strat O Matic, Dynasty League, Replay, Inside Pitch, Ball Park) and each of these games goes about rating players for defense (range and error propensity). Every year there are discussions about the best way to do this, especially with the new metrics that seemingly keep popping up.

The games that IMO put out the best ratings are the games that use the metrics BUT also use scouting reports (eye tests) AND put everything in context. For example, Replay Baseball (an OUTSTANDING game) puts everything into a data base and they analyze the context of a player's performance. Did he play on a team that had pitchers who struck a lot of hitters out or did they pitch to contact? Does he play on a team with a lot of LHP? What ballpark does he play in? What do the metrics show? What did the scouting reports say? When you add all this up you get a very good picture of how a player performed.

Bottom line, there is not ONE metric that defines defensive performance and the eye test alone cannot be relied on. It's a combination of all the data that must be used.

[Perfect Zero]

Re: How do you look at defensive statistics?

I know this is off topic, but if we could find a way to play tabletop games online and create an OS league, that would be boss.

[l3ulvl]

Re: How do you look at defensive statistics?

How do you guys go about analyzing defense? With all these statistics out, everybody has their own way. I don't think any one stat is "great" for analyzing a guys defense and a lot of times they are misleading.

I look at these numbers but don't use them as the end all thing for players. I find the eye test works best. For players I watch everyday, at least.

I kinda wonder if this has anything to do with Jhonny? I've been trying to look up defensive metrics and I'll be honest, I flat out don't understand them. I tried comparing Peralta to Drew and couldn't figure out who came out better, despite Drew seeming to be the obvious choice. Now the JJ Hardy rumors are out there and I'd like to know how to look at these numbers and understand what they mean so I can better compare guys.

[rdnk]

Re: How do you look at defensive statistics?

I like UZR. It is not perfect, but it gives me a pretty decent idea if the player is good in the field or not. It is a combination of errors, arm or double play (OF or IF) and range. For catchers, however, I look at other things.

I also try to listen to what other people (hopefully unbiased and not on TV) say about players to supplement UZR.

As far as Peralta goes, much of his defensive value comes from his steadyness. His range is mediocre at best, but he makes the most of what he has.

[CabreraMVP]

Re: How do you look at defensive statistics?

Peralta is funny, because he rates out as an above average defender. Even his range itself checks out to be good.

But I'm sure you have watched the guy the past two years, his range is not good, or average, as numbers would suggest. He has no range at all. That's part of why I don't trust defensive statistics, because Peralta is not as good as what numbers say.

I dont know the numbers on Drew, but after just watching 5 games of him in the ALDS, you can see that he has much greater range. He made a couple players in 5 games that I haven't seen Jhonny make in 2 years. I don't think Peralta was even capable of making some of them.

I really like Peralta, he's a good clubhouse guy. He has as steady as they come in the field, which was great alongside Inge in 2011. But when Cabrera is your third basemen, you have to get more range at shortstop. You have to trade Peralta's steadyness for a shortstop who's more error prone but makes a lot more plays.

[Sportsforever]

Re: How do you look at defensive statistics?

I know this is off topic, but if we could find a way to play tabletop games online and create an OS league, that would be boss.

Dynasty League has their game on an online server now with custom leagues (both draft and historical).

[Majingir]

Re: How do you look at defensive statistics?

I just use baseballreference, and on their fielding numbers, it shows the players fielding % at certain positions and things like his range factor, as well as the MLB average for fielding % and range factor at that position

[seanjeezy]

Re: How do you look at defensive statistics?

If you know what to look for, the eye test is by far the best method to measure defensive ability. I've been spoiled by seeing Brendan Ryan play SS the past two years (and Guti whenever he plays lol) so I have a pretty good feel of what to look for in great defensive players. I like to use the metrics kind of as a last resort, especially if I'm not too familiar with the player in question, but usually the eye test and the numbers match up.

I just use baseballreference, and on their fielding numbers, it shows the players fielding % at certain positions and things like his range factor, as well as the MLB average for fielding % and range factor at that position

Fielding % and range factor are pretty useless though, especially range factor (putouts + assists / 9 innings? what does this even signify?)... As for fielding %, give me a guy who can get to more balls and I can live with 15-20 errors a year. No more 2010 Derek Jeter fiascos thank you very much

[snepp]

Re: How do you look at defensive statistics?

Range factor is pretty awful, it's influenced too heavily by the pitching staff to be of much use. A groundball staff will negatively impact the outfielders' marks, at no fault of the fielders, same for a flyball staff making infielders "worse."

Fielding percentage is loaded with problems of its own. While it has some uses for infielders, it's completely useless for outfielders, and the scorer bias that often goes into handing them out can be atrocious.



To answer the thread question, I look at them with my eyes.

(I'll be here all week)

[rdnk]

Re: How do you look at defensive statistics?

especially if I'm not too familiar with the player in question

See that's my problem. I don't watch a whole lot of baseball outside of the Tigers. So I use numbers to give me a general idea.