Pete Rose should not be reinstated

[CheckMate]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

If people don't want Rose reinstated because he broke the #1 rule of the game, fine. But please, lets not discuss the "integrity of the game."



The so-called "integrity" of baseball

[Lex]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

Here's the problem with his argument. He completely ignores the fact that Ty Cobb was in the inaugural class of inductees. At the time, there was not anywhere close to the same climate regarding issues of race and such. With that in mind "integrity" might have meant something different (or had different context) when the sportswriters voted Cobb in. The fact that people then werent as sensitive to race relations kind of makes this apples and oranges. The perils posed by the threat of gambling have remained constant however.

[Lex]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

Here's the problem with his argument. He completely ignores the fact that Ty Cobb was in the inaugural class of inductees. At the time, there was not anywhere close to the same climate regarding issues of race and such. With that in mind "integrity" might have meant something different (or had different context) when the sportswriters voted Cobb in. The fact that people then werent as sensitive to race relations kind of makes this apples and oranges. The perils posed by the threat of gambling have remained constant however.

[Lex]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

Here's the problem with his argument. He completely ignores the fact that Ty Cobb was in the inaugural class of inductees. At the time, there was not anywhere close to the same climate regarding issues of race and such. With that in mind "integrity" might have meant something different (or had different context) when the sportswriters voted Cobb in. The fact that people then werent as sensitive to race relations kind of makes this apples and oranges. The perils posed by the threat of gambling have remained constant however.

[SoMiss2000]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Lex said:
Here's the problem with his argument. He completely ignores the fact that Ty Cobb was in the inaugural class of inductees. At the time, there was not anywhere close to the same climate regarding issues of race and such. With that in mind "integrity" might have meant something different (or had different context) when the sportswriters voted Cobb in. The fact that people then werent as sensitive to race relations kind of makes this apples and oranges. The perils posed by the threat of gambling have remained constant however.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">Are you kidding me? This country has NEVER been INSENSITVIE to race relations. The bottom line is Cobb is in. It doesn't matter when he got in. Integrity has always meant the same thing. The sportswriters then weren't dumb enough to think that it meant something different. They chose to ignore the character flaws the guys back then had. Fact is, there are many guys in all sports halls of fame with questionable character and moral values. I'm on the "Put Pete In" side. That's right, put his *** in (It's a freaking MUSEUM not some kinda religious cathedral) and maybe, just maybe, he'll go away. He should never be able to work in baseball again. However, I do think the guy should be allowed to go to the stadium to watch a game just like everyone else. Whoa, but you are right, times have changed and in the politically correct world we live in now, things that guys like Cobb did were not made an issue of as things that happen today. That's where the hypocrisy comes in.

[SoMiss2000]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Lex said:
Here's the problem with his argument. He completely ignores the fact that Ty Cobb was in the inaugural class of inductees. At the time, there was not anywhere close to the same climate regarding issues of race and such. With that in mind "integrity" might have meant something different (or had different context) when the sportswriters voted Cobb in. The fact that people then werent as sensitive to race relations kind of makes this apples and oranges. The perils posed by the threat of gambling have remained constant however.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">Are you kidding me? This country has NEVER been INSENSITVIE to race relations. The bottom line is Cobb is in. It doesn't matter when he got in. Integrity has always meant the same thing. The sportswriters then weren't dumb enough to think that it meant something different. They chose to ignore the character flaws the guys back then had. Fact is, there are many guys in all sports halls of fame with questionable character and moral values. I'm on the "Put Pete In" side. That's right, put his *** in (It's a freaking MUSEUM not some kinda religious cathedral) and maybe, just maybe, he'll go away. He should never be able to work in baseball again. However, I do think the guy should be allowed to go to the stadium to watch a game just like everyone else. Whoa, but you are right, times have changed and in the politically correct world we live in now, things that guys like Cobb did were not made an issue of as things that happen today. That's where the hypocrisy comes in.

[SoMiss2000]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Lex said:
Here's the problem with his argument. He completely ignores the fact that Ty Cobb was in the inaugural class of inductees. At the time, there was not anywhere close to the same climate regarding issues of race and such. With that in mind "integrity" might have meant something different (or had different context) when the sportswriters voted Cobb in. The fact that people then werent as sensitive to race relations kind of makes this apples and oranges. The perils posed by the threat of gambling have remained constant however.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">Are you kidding me? This country has NEVER been INSENSITVIE to race relations. The bottom line is Cobb is in. It doesn't matter when he got in. Integrity has always meant the same thing. The sportswriters then weren't dumb enough to think that it meant something different. They chose to ignore the character flaws the guys back then had. Fact is, there are many guys in all sports halls of fame with questionable character and moral values. I'm on the "Put Pete In" side. That's right, put his *** in (It's a freaking MUSEUM not some kinda religious cathedral) and maybe, just maybe, he'll go away. He should never be able to work in baseball again. However, I do think the guy should be allowed to go to the stadium to watch a game just like everyone else. Whoa, but you are right, times have changed and in the politically correct world we live in now, things that guys like Cobb did were not made an issue of as things that happen today. That's where the hypocrisy comes in.

[jasontoddwhitt]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

Well, Pete Rose should be reinstated because of his playing credentials, and also because two players were reinstated after being banned for gambling reasons.

In 1983, Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays were banned for life from baseball by Bowie Kuhn because they worked for a casino. They were reinstated in 1985 by new commissioner Peter Ueberroth.

[jasontoddwhitt]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

Well, Pete Rose should be reinstated because of his playing credentials, and also because two players were reinstated after being banned for gambling reasons.

In 1983, Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays were banned for life from baseball by Bowie Kuhn because they worked for a casino. They were reinstated in 1985 by new commissioner Peter Ueberroth.

[jasontoddwhitt]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

Well, Pete Rose should be reinstated because of his playing credentials, and also because two players were reinstated after being banned for gambling reasons.

In 1983, Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays were banned for life from baseball by Bowie Kuhn because they worked for a casino. They were reinstated in 1985 by new commissioner Peter Ueberroth.

[Lex]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
SoMiss2000 said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Lex said:
Here's the problem with his argument. He completely ignores the fact that Ty Cobb was in the inaugural class of inductees. At the time, there was not anywhere close to the same climate regarding issues of race and such. With that in mind "integrity" might have meant something different (or had different context) when the sportswriters voted Cobb in. The fact that people then werent as sensitive to race relations kind of makes this apples and oranges. The perils posed by the threat of gambling have remained constant however.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">Are you kidding me? This country has NEVER been INSENSITVIE to race relations. The bottom line is Cobb is in. It doesn't matter when he got in. Integrity has always meant the same thing. The sportswriters then weren't dumb enough to think that it meant something different. They chose to ignore the character flaws the guys back then had. Fact is, there are many guys in all sports halls of fame with questionable character and moral values. I'm on the "Put Pete In" side. That's right, put his *** in (It's a freaking MUSEUM not some kinda religious cathedral) and maybe, just maybe, he'll go away. He should never be able to work in baseball again. However, I do think the guy should be allowed to go to the stadium to watch a game just like everyone else. Whoa, but you are right, times have changed and in the politically correct world we live in now, things that guys like Cobb did were not made an issue of as things that happen today. That's where the hypocrisy comes in.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

You cant have it both ways. On one hand you admit times have changed but you choose to disagree that the application/context/definiton of integrity has changed. Then you proceed to try to make the assertion that hypocracy exists because times change. Like I said, you cant have it both ways. Gambling as a threat has not diminished, in fact when you consider how much the industry has grown then it might be a bigger threat today.

BTW, Mick and Willie were suspended for being associated with gambling in that they were greeters or something like that. There are fundamental differences however, 1) they werent on a MLB team at the time and 2) I dont think they were suspended for gambling per se. But Im glad you mention that because it underscores how serious baseball is about this. Mick and Willie werent even guilty of breaking rule 21 yet they were still dealt with by baseball. This is only one more reason taht Pete Rose should have known better.

[Lex]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
SoMiss2000 said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Lex said:
Here's the problem with his argument. He completely ignores the fact that Ty Cobb was in the inaugural class of inductees. At the time, there was not anywhere close to the same climate regarding issues of race and such. With that in mind "integrity" might have meant something different (or had different context) when the sportswriters voted Cobb in. The fact that people then werent as sensitive to race relations kind of makes this apples and oranges. The perils posed by the threat of gambling have remained constant however.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">Are you kidding me? This country has NEVER been INSENSITVIE to race relations. The bottom line is Cobb is in. It doesn't matter when he got in. Integrity has always meant the same thing. The sportswriters then weren't dumb enough to think that it meant something different. They chose to ignore the character flaws the guys back then had. Fact is, there are many guys in all sports halls of fame with questionable character and moral values. I'm on the "Put Pete In" side. That's right, put his *** in (It's a freaking MUSEUM not some kinda religious cathedral) and maybe, just maybe, he'll go away. He should never be able to work in baseball again. However, I do think the guy should be allowed to go to the stadium to watch a game just like everyone else. Whoa, but you are right, times have changed and in the politically correct world we live in now, things that guys like Cobb did were not made an issue of as things that happen today. That's where the hypocrisy comes in.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

You cant have it both ways. On one hand you admit times have changed but you choose to disagree that the application/context/definiton of integrity has changed. Then you proceed to try to make the assertion that hypocracy exists because times change. Like I said, you cant have it both ways. Gambling as a threat has not diminished, in fact when you consider how much the industry has grown then it might be a bigger threat today.

BTW, Mick and Willie were suspended for being associated with gambling in that they were greeters or something like that. There are fundamental differences however, 1) they werent on a MLB team at the time and 2) I dont think they were suspended for gambling per se. But Im glad you mention that because it underscores how serious baseball is about this. Mick and Willie werent even guilty of breaking rule 21 yet they were still dealt with by baseball. This is only one more reason taht Pete Rose should have known better.

[Lex]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
SoMiss2000 said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Lex said:
Here's the problem with his argument. He completely ignores the fact that Ty Cobb was in the inaugural class of inductees. At the time, there was not anywhere close to the same climate regarding issues of race and such. With that in mind "integrity" might have meant something different (or had different context) when the sportswriters voted Cobb in. The fact that people then werent as sensitive to race relations kind of makes this apples and oranges. The perils posed by the threat of gambling have remained constant however.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">Are you kidding me? This country has NEVER been INSENSITVIE to race relations. The bottom line is Cobb is in. It doesn't matter when he got in. Integrity has always meant the same thing. The sportswriters then weren't dumb enough to think that it meant something different. They chose to ignore the character flaws the guys back then had. Fact is, there are many guys in all sports halls of fame with questionable character and moral values. I'm on the "Put Pete In" side. That's right, put his *** in (It's a freaking MUSEUM not some kinda religious cathedral) and maybe, just maybe, he'll go away. He should never be able to work in baseball again. However, I do think the guy should be allowed to go to the stadium to watch a game just like everyone else. Whoa, but you are right, times have changed and in the politically correct world we live in now, things that guys like Cobb did were not made an issue of as things that happen today. That's where the hypocrisy comes in.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

You cant have it both ways. On one hand you admit times have changed but you choose to disagree that the application/context/definiton of integrity has changed. Then you proceed to try to make the assertion that hypocracy exists because times change. Like I said, you cant have it both ways. Gambling as a threat has not diminished, in fact when you consider how much the industry has grown then it might be a bigger threat today.

BTW, Mick and Willie were suspended for being associated with gambling in that they were greeters or something like that. There are fundamental differences however, 1) they werent on a MLB team at the time and 2) I dont think they were suspended for gambling per se. But Im glad you mention that because it underscores how serious baseball is about this. Mick and Willie werent even guilty of breaking rule 21 yet they were still dealt with by baseball. This is only one more reason taht Pete Rose should have known better.

[Donovan]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Here is what I do know. Rose was a great player who shouldn't have gambled on baseball.

But the idea that he should be banned from the Hall of Fame because baseball is about "integrity" and "character" is as absurd as thinking college football coaches are really concerned about academics.


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I especially like these lines. So because coaches in college ball may not care about academics should they simply forget thats the reason there in school in the first place? I didnt understand that arguement, so this writer obviously doesnt give a crap about "integrity" or "character" so does he want baseball to turn into wrestling where the games are scripted?

Rose isnt just a liar, a cheater and rule breaker hes an a-hole. He doesnt give a [censored] about the game and only wants the hall of fame, he is only thinking about himself. If that werent true he wouldnt have been a ****** and put the game in jeapordy.

When they talk about the "integrity" of the game and preserving it they mean making sure the games actually are played with no outside forces affecting the outcome aside from the players and management decisions, decisions not made because theres personal gain on the line.
Its as simple as that, I cant believe people support this guy still. Who cares that he was a great player, one of the best of all time, thats a moot point. When you cheat you should be punished no matter who you are. Ridiculas.

[Donovan]

Re: Pete Rose should not be reinstated

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Here is what I do know. Rose was a great player who shouldn't have gambled on baseball.

But the idea that he should be banned from the Hall of Fame because baseball is about "integrity" and "character" is as absurd as thinking college football coaches are really concerned about academics.


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I especially like these lines. So because coaches in college ball may not care about academics should they simply forget thats the reason there in school in the first place? I didnt understand that arguement, so this writer obviously doesnt give a crap about "integrity" or "character" so does he want baseball to turn into wrestling where the games are scripted?

Rose isnt just a liar, a cheater and rule breaker hes an a-hole. He doesnt give a [censored] about the game and only wants the hall of fame, he is only thinking about himself. If that werent true he wouldnt have been a ****** and put the game in jeapordy.

When they talk about the "integrity" of the game and preserving it they mean making sure the games actually are played with no outside forces affecting the outcome aside from the players and management decisions, decisions not made because theres personal gain on the line.
Its as simple as that, I cant believe people support this guy still. Who cares that he was a great player, one of the best of all time, thats a moot point. When you cheat you should be punished no matter who you are. Ridiculas.