Yankees vs. Redsox, time to put this to an end

[K_GUN]

Re: Yankees vs. Redsox, time to put this to an end

you're right

look at the 80s...the yanks had the highest payroll then too


they made 1 WS..and lost

time to play

[dce1228]

Re: Yankees vs. Redsox, time to put this to an end

I'm sure it was the press that dubbed the Yankees the Evil Empire and it was done mostly, IMO, to put more color into the Yankees/Red Sox... yankees/rest of baseball rivalry. The Red Sox on the other hand seem to be portrayed as the up-start that might be able to put the villian down in the end (though the Pedro incident in the playoffs coupled with Mann-Ram's antics makes it hard to sell that image any longer).

Why I think this duality exists is that more people can identify with the loser than the winner. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but life is a lot more about losing than about winning. The Red Sox represent that moment where someone who spent their whole life shoveling sh*t finally gets his or her moment to shine. The Yankees on the other hand are that priveledged, silver-spoon having type that turn their noses at everyone else. I mean, they have their championship run and instead of falling back in the standings they use their financial advantage to buy a bunch more players and remain at the top. Who wouldn't hate them, they're like the upper class kid who goofs off through college then just gets a high paying job because of his name. The Yanks, to many people, represent what's unfair about life.

For me, the Yankees worst crime is the Giambi signing, because that was done more to hurt the A's than to help the Yanks. Yankees brass conceeded that the A's were the team to beat in the AL, and found that by luring their best star with WAY MORE money, arm & hammer commercials and a nice corporate hair-cut, they would remain at the top. Terrorism, in my opinion, because they robbed the average baseball fan of what was supposed to be a franchise-- imagine if Steinbrenner had stepped in to take Brooks Robinson and Jim Palmer from the 1968 Orioles, or Catfish Hunter and Reggie Jackson from the 1971 A's, or Johnny Bench and Joe Morgan from the 1974 Reds. Instead of using their finances to maybe draft and develope a Giambi, they just went out and bought one. So now the talent level of baseball has been taken down a notch. Bad for baseball, simply. They have tremendous recources for player development and a legacy of developing players not only blessed with skill but with know-how, and now that farm sits idle. It's a shame, and a waste.

[dce1228]

Re: Yankees vs. Redsox, time to put this to an end

I'm sure it was the press that dubbed the Yankees the Evil Empire and it was done mostly, IMO, to put more color into the Yankees/Red Sox... yankees/rest of baseball rivalry. The Red Sox on the other hand seem to be portrayed as the up-start that might be able to put the villian down in the end (though the Pedro incident in the playoffs coupled with Mann-Ram's antics makes it hard to sell that image any longer).

Why I think this duality exists is that more people can identify with the loser than the winner. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but life is a lot more about losing than about winning. The Red Sox represent that moment where someone who spent their whole life shoveling sh*t finally gets his or her moment to shine. The Yankees on the other hand are that priveledged, silver-spoon having type that turn their noses at everyone else. I mean, they have their championship run and instead of falling back in the standings they use their financial advantage to buy a bunch more players and remain at the top. Who wouldn't hate them, they're like the upper class kid who goofs off through college then just gets a high paying job because of his name. The Yanks, to many people, represent what's unfair about life.

For me, the Yankees worst crime is the Giambi signing, because that was done more to hurt the A's than to help the Yanks. Yankees brass conceeded that the A's were the team to beat in the AL, and found that by luring their best star with WAY MORE money, arm & hammer commercials and a nice corporate hair-cut, they would remain at the top. Terrorism, in my opinion, because they robbed the average baseball fan of what was supposed to be a franchise-- imagine if Steinbrenner had stepped in to take Brooks Robinson and Jim Palmer from the 1968 Orioles, or Catfish Hunter and Reggie Jackson from the 1971 A's, or Johnny Bench and Joe Morgan from the 1974 Reds. Instead of using their finances to maybe draft and develope a Giambi, they just went out and bought one. So now the talent level of baseball has been taken down a notch. Bad for baseball, simply. They have tremendous recources for player development and a legacy of developing players not only blessed with skill but with know-how, and now that farm sits idle. It's a shame, and a waste.

[dce1228]

Re: Yankees vs. Redsox, time to put this to an end

I'm sure it was the press that dubbed the Yankees the Evil Empire and it was done mostly, IMO, to put more color into the Yankees/Red Sox... yankees/rest of baseball rivalry. The Red Sox on the other hand seem to be portrayed as the up-start that might be able to put the villian down in the end (though the Pedro incident in the playoffs coupled with Mann-Ram's antics makes it hard to sell that image any longer).

Why I think this duality exists is that more people can identify with the loser than the winner. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but life is a lot more about losing than about winning. The Red Sox represent that moment where someone who spent their whole life shoveling sh*t finally gets his or her moment to shine. The Yankees on the other hand are that priveledged, silver-spoon having type that turn their noses at everyone else. I mean, they have their championship run and instead of falling back in the standings they use their financial advantage to buy a bunch more players and remain at the top. Who wouldn't hate them, they're like the upper class kid who goofs off through college then just gets a high paying job because of his name. The Yanks, to many people, represent what's unfair about life.

For me, the Yankees worst crime is the Giambi signing, because that was done more to hurt the A's than to help the Yanks. Yankees brass conceeded that the A's were the team to beat in the AL, and found that by luring their best star with WAY MORE money, arm & hammer commercials and a nice corporate hair-cut, they would remain at the top. Terrorism, in my opinion, because they robbed the average baseball fan of what was supposed to be a franchise-- imagine if Steinbrenner had stepped in to take Brooks Robinson and Jim Palmer from the 1968 Orioles, or Catfish Hunter and Reggie Jackson from the 1971 A's, or Johnny Bench and Joe Morgan from the 1974 Reds. Instead of using their finances to maybe draft and develope a Giambi, they just went out and bought one. So now the talent level of baseball has been taken down a notch. Bad for baseball, simply. They have tremendous recources for player development and a legacy of developing players not only blessed with skill but with know-how, and now that farm sits idle. It's a shame, and a waste.

[dooch]

Re: Yankees vs. Redsox, time to put this to an end

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
dce1228 said:
I'm sure it was the press that dubbed the Yankees the Evil Empire and it was done mostly, IMO, to put more color into the Yankees/Red Sox... yankees/rest of baseball rivalry. The Red Sox on the other hand seem to be portrayed as the up-start that might be able to put the villian down in the end (though the Pedro incident in the playoffs coupled with Mann-Ram's antics makes it hard to sell that image any longer).

Why I think this duality exists is that more people can identify with the loser than the winner. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but life is a lot more about losing than about winning. The Red Sox represent that moment where someone who spent their whole life shoveling sh*t finally gets his or her moment to shine. The Yankees on the other hand are that priveledged, silver-spoon having type that turn their noses at everyone else. I mean, they have their championship run and instead of falling back in the standings they use their financial advantage to buy a bunch more players and remain at the top. Who wouldn't hate them, they're like the upper class kid who goofs off through college then just gets a high paying job because of his name. The Yanks, to many people, represent what's unfair about life.

For me, the Yankees worst crime is the Giambi signing, because that was done more to hurt the A's than to help the Yanks. Yankees brass conceeded that the A's were the team to beat in the AL, and found that by luring their best star with WAY MORE money, arm &amp; hammer commercials and a nice corporate hair-cut, they would remain at the top. Terrorism, in my opinion, because they robbed the average baseball fan of what was supposed to be a franchise-- imagine if Steinbrenner had stepped in to take Brooks Robinson and Jim Palmer from the 1968 Orioles, or Catfish Hunter and Reggie Jackson from the 1971 A's, or Johnny Bench and Joe Morgan from the 1974 Reds. Instead of using their finances to maybe draft and develope a Giambi, they just went out and bought one. So now the talent level of baseball has been taken down a notch. Bad for baseball, simply. They have tremendous recources for player development and a legacy of developing players not only blessed with skill but with know-how, and now that farm sits idle. It's a shame, and a waste.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

There is some truth in what you said, but one thing I wholeheartedly disagree with is the Giambi signing. The A's had him locked up, plain and simple. He was all ready to sign the deal in the spring of '01 (his last year with them) and wanted to stay with them. The A's dicked around with the no trade clause, and Giambi got fed up. If I recall correctly, it was to be a 6 year, 90 million dollar deal. Sure, the Yanks went over 100 million for him, but it should have never come to that. The A's had him. In this instance, blame the A's, not the system, for Giambi leaving.

[dooch]

Re: Yankees vs. Redsox, time to put this to an end

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
dce1228 said:
I'm sure it was the press that dubbed the Yankees the Evil Empire and it was done mostly, IMO, to put more color into the Yankees/Red Sox... yankees/rest of baseball rivalry. The Red Sox on the other hand seem to be portrayed as the up-start that might be able to put the villian down in the end (though the Pedro incident in the playoffs coupled with Mann-Ram's antics makes it hard to sell that image any longer).

Why I think this duality exists is that more people can identify with the loser than the winner. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but life is a lot more about losing than about winning. The Red Sox represent that moment where someone who spent their whole life shoveling sh*t finally gets his or her moment to shine. The Yankees on the other hand are that priveledged, silver-spoon having type that turn their noses at everyone else. I mean, they have their championship run and instead of falling back in the standings they use their financial advantage to buy a bunch more players and remain at the top. Who wouldn't hate them, they're like the upper class kid who goofs off through college then just gets a high paying job because of his name. The Yanks, to many people, represent what's unfair about life.

For me, the Yankees worst crime is the Giambi signing, because that was done more to hurt the A's than to help the Yanks. Yankees brass conceeded that the A's were the team to beat in the AL, and found that by luring their best star with WAY MORE money, arm &amp; hammer commercials and a nice corporate hair-cut, they would remain at the top. Terrorism, in my opinion, because they robbed the average baseball fan of what was supposed to be a franchise-- imagine if Steinbrenner had stepped in to take Brooks Robinson and Jim Palmer from the 1968 Orioles, or Catfish Hunter and Reggie Jackson from the 1971 A's, or Johnny Bench and Joe Morgan from the 1974 Reds. Instead of using their finances to maybe draft and develope a Giambi, they just went out and bought one. So now the talent level of baseball has been taken down a notch. Bad for baseball, simply. They have tremendous recources for player development and a legacy of developing players not only blessed with skill but with know-how, and now that farm sits idle. It's a shame, and a waste.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

There is some truth in what you said, but one thing I wholeheartedly disagree with is the Giambi signing. The A's had him locked up, plain and simple. He was all ready to sign the deal in the spring of '01 (his last year with them) and wanted to stay with them. The A's dicked around with the no trade clause, and Giambi got fed up. If I recall correctly, it was to be a 6 year, 90 million dollar deal. Sure, the Yanks went over 100 million for him, but it should have never come to that. The A's had him. In this instance, blame the A's, not the system, for Giambi leaving.

[dooch]

Re: Yankees vs. Redsox, time to put this to an end

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
dce1228 said:
I'm sure it was the press that dubbed the Yankees the Evil Empire and it was done mostly, IMO, to put more color into the Yankees/Red Sox... yankees/rest of baseball rivalry. The Red Sox on the other hand seem to be portrayed as the up-start that might be able to put the villian down in the end (though the Pedro incident in the playoffs coupled with Mann-Ram's antics makes it hard to sell that image any longer).

Why I think this duality exists is that more people can identify with the loser than the winner. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but life is a lot more about losing than about winning. The Red Sox represent that moment where someone who spent their whole life shoveling sh*t finally gets his or her moment to shine. The Yankees on the other hand are that priveledged, silver-spoon having type that turn their noses at everyone else. I mean, they have their championship run and instead of falling back in the standings they use their financial advantage to buy a bunch more players and remain at the top. Who wouldn't hate them, they're like the upper class kid who goofs off through college then just gets a high paying job because of his name. The Yanks, to many people, represent what's unfair about life.

For me, the Yankees worst crime is the Giambi signing, because that was done more to hurt the A's than to help the Yanks. Yankees brass conceeded that the A's were the team to beat in the AL, and found that by luring their best star with WAY MORE money, arm &amp; hammer commercials and a nice corporate hair-cut, they would remain at the top. Terrorism, in my opinion, because they robbed the average baseball fan of what was supposed to be a franchise-- imagine if Steinbrenner had stepped in to take Brooks Robinson and Jim Palmer from the 1968 Orioles, or Catfish Hunter and Reggie Jackson from the 1971 A's, or Johnny Bench and Joe Morgan from the 1974 Reds. Instead of using their finances to maybe draft and develope a Giambi, they just went out and bought one. So now the talent level of baseball has been taken down a notch. Bad for baseball, simply. They have tremendous recources for player development and a legacy of developing players not only blessed with skill but with know-how, and now that farm sits idle. It's a shame, and a waste.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

There is some truth in what you said, but one thing I wholeheartedly disagree with is the Giambi signing. The A's had him locked up, plain and simple. He was all ready to sign the deal in the spring of '01 (his last year with them) and wanted to stay with them. The A's dicked around with the no trade clause, and Giambi got fed up. If I recall correctly, it was to be a 6 year, 90 million dollar deal. Sure, the Yanks went over 100 million for him, but it should have never come to that. The A's had him. In this instance, blame the A's, not the system, for Giambi leaving.

[dce1228]

Re: Yankees vs. Redsox, time to put this to an end

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
dooch said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
dce1228 said:
I'm sure it was the press that dubbed the Yankees the Evil Empire and it was done mostly, IMO, to put more color into the Yankees/Red Sox... yankees/rest of baseball rivalry. The Red Sox on the other hand seem to be portrayed as the up-start that might be able to put the villian down in the end (though the Pedro incident in the playoffs coupled with Mann-Ram's antics makes it hard to sell that image any longer).

Why I think this duality exists is that more people can identify with the loser than the winner. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but life is a lot more about losing than about winning. The Red Sox represent that moment where someone who spent their whole life shoveling sh*t finally gets his or her moment to shine. The Yankees on the other hand are that priveledged, silver-spoon having type that turn their noses at everyone else. I mean, they have their championship run and instead of falling back in the standings they use their financial advantage to buy a bunch more players and remain at the top. Who wouldn't hate them, they're like the upper class kid who goofs off through college then just gets a high paying job because of his name. The Yanks, to many people, represent what's unfair about life.

For me, the Yankees worst crime is the Giambi signing, because that was done more to hurt the A's than to help the Yanks. Yankees brass conceeded that the A's were the team to beat in the AL, and found that by luring their best star with WAY MORE money, arm &amp; hammer commercials and a nice corporate hair-cut, they would remain at the top. Terrorism, in my opinion, because they robbed the average baseball fan of what was supposed to be a franchise-- imagine if Steinbrenner had stepped in to take Brooks Robinson and Jim Palmer from the 1968 Orioles, or Catfish Hunter and Reggie Jackson from the 1971 A's, or Johnny Bench and Joe Morgan from the 1974 Reds. Instead of using their finances to maybe draft and develope a Giambi, they just went out and bought one. So now the talent level of baseball has been taken down a notch. Bad for baseball, simply. They have tremendous recources for player development and a legacy of developing players not only blessed with skill but with know-how, and now that farm sits idle. It's a shame, and a waste.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

There is some truth in what you said, but one thing I wholeheartedly disagree with is the Giambi signing. The A's had him locked up, plain and simple. He was all ready to sign the deal in the spring of '01 (his last year with them) and wanted to stay with them. The A's dicked around with the no trade clause, and Giambi got fed up. If I recall correctly, it was to be a 6 year, 90 million dollar deal. Sure, the Yanks went over 100 million for him, but it should have never come to that. The A's had him. In this instance, blame the A's, not the system, for Giambi leaving.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

A no-trade clause for Giambi could be suicide for a team like the A's, when you have roughly 55 million to spend. The difference between the large and small market teams is the Yanks can overpay players... (i.e.. Giambi, Jeter, Contreras, HENSON..).. have those moves blow up in their face and still go out and sign a Sheffield &amp; a Mussina then trade for a Kevin Brown and Alex Rodriguez.

I guess you can look into it how you want, but put yourself in the A's shoes. Just because I won't put my entire franchise on the line (say giambi's knees continue to deteriorate and I've got a fourth of what I can pay all my players tied into him) means I'm somehow to blame for losing him. The blame has to be put on the system when the deck is so severely tilted-- when there's such a massive degree of difference between what one team can afford and what another can afford.

And you can't tell me that part of the reason the Yanks stepped in (with Tino coming off what, 120 rbis and Nick Johnson on the way up) wasn't to rob the A's, the one team in their league that had come within one game 2 straight years of beating them, of their best player. But hey, I agree that it was as some yankee fans say, 'well within the rules' for them to do so. But for the same fans to ask that their franchise be revered and not criticized? what's that about?

So while I don't make a habit of speaking the Evil Empire tag... there's absolute truth to it. Or maybe it should be 'the opportunistic empire'... evil has a better ring.

[dce1228]

Re: Yankees vs. Redsox, time to put this to an end

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
dooch said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
dce1228 said:
I'm sure it was the press that dubbed the Yankees the Evil Empire and it was done mostly, IMO, to put more color into the Yankees/Red Sox... yankees/rest of baseball rivalry. The Red Sox on the other hand seem to be portrayed as the up-start that might be able to put the villian down in the end (though the Pedro incident in the playoffs coupled with Mann-Ram's antics makes it hard to sell that image any longer).

Why I think this duality exists is that more people can identify with the loser than the winner. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but life is a lot more about losing than about winning. The Red Sox represent that moment where someone who spent their whole life shoveling sh*t finally gets his or her moment to shine. The Yankees on the other hand are that priveledged, silver-spoon having type that turn their noses at everyone else. I mean, they have their championship run and instead of falling back in the standings they use their financial advantage to buy a bunch more players and remain at the top. Who wouldn't hate them, they're like the upper class kid who goofs off through college then just gets a high paying job because of his name. The Yanks, to many people, represent what's unfair about life.

For me, the Yankees worst crime is the Giambi signing, because that was done more to hurt the A's than to help the Yanks. Yankees brass conceeded that the A's were the team to beat in the AL, and found that by luring their best star with WAY MORE money, arm &amp; hammer commercials and a nice corporate hair-cut, they would remain at the top. Terrorism, in my opinion, because they robbed the average baseball fan of what was supposed to be a franchise-- imagine if Steinbrenner had stepped in to take Brooks Robinson and Jim Palmer from the 1968 Orioles, or Catfish Hunter and Reggie Jackson from the 1971 A's, or Johnny Bench and Joe Morgan from the 1974 Reds. Instead of using their finances to maybe draft and develope a Giambi, they just went out and bought one. So now the talent level of baseball has been taken down a notch. Bad for baseball, simply. They have tremendous recources for player development and a legacy of developing players not only blessed with skill but with know-how, and now that farm sits idle. It's a shame, and a waste.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

There is some truth in what you said, but one thing I wholeheartedly disagree with is the Giambi signing. The A's had him locked up, plain and simple. He was all ready to sign the deal in the spring of '01 (his last year with them) and wanted to stay with them. The A's dicked around with the no trade clause, and Giambi got fed up. If I recall correctly, it was to be a 6 year, 90 million dollar deal. Sure, the Yanks went over 100 million for him, but it should have never come to that. The A's had him. In this instance, blame the A's, not the system, for Giambi leaving.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

A no-trade clause for Giambi could be suicide for a team like the A's, when you have roughly 55 million to spend. The difference between the large and small market teams is the Yanks can overpay players... (i.e.. Giambi, Jeter, Contreras, HENSON..).. have those moves blow up in their face and still go out and sign a Sheffield &amp; a Mussina then trade for a Kevin Brown and Alex Rodriguez.

I guess you can look into it how you want, but put yourself in the A's shoes. Just because I won't put my entire franchise on the line (say giambi's knees continue to deteriorate and I've got a fourth of what I can pay all my players tied into him) means I'm somehow to blame for losing him. The blame has to be put on the system when the deck is so severely tilted-- when there's such a massive degree of difference between what one team can afford and what another can afford.

And you can't tell me that part of the reason the Yanks stepped in (with Tino coming off what, 120 rbis and Nick Johnson on the way up) wasn't to rob the A's, the one team in their league that had come within one game 2 straight years of beating them, of their best player. But hey, I agree that it was as some yankee fans say, 'well within the rules' for them to do so. But for the same fans to ask that their franchise be revered and not criticized? what's that about?

So while I don't make a habit of speaking the Evil Empire tag... there's absolute truth to it. Or maybe it should be 'the opportunistic empire'... evil has a better ring.

[dce1228]

Re: Yankees vs. Redsox, time to put this to an end

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
dooch said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
dce1228 said:
I'm sure it was the press that dubbed the Yankees the Evil Empire and it was done mostly, IMO, to put more color into the Yankees/Red Sox... yankees/rest of baseball rivalry. The Red Sox on the other hand seem to be portrayed as the up-start that might be able to put the villian down in the end (though the Pedro incident in the playoffs coupled with Mann-Ram's antics makes it hard to sell that image any longer).

Why I think this duality exists is that more people can identify with the loser than the winner. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but life is a lot more about losing than about winning. The Red Sox represent that moment where someone who spent their whole life shoveling sh*t finally gets his or her moment to shine. The Yankees on the other hand are that priveledged, silver-spoon having type that turn their noses at everyone else. I mean, they have their championship run and instead of falling back in the standings they use their financial advantage to buy a bunch more players and remain at the top. Who wouldn't hate them, they're like the upper class kid who goofs off through college then just gets a high paying job because of his name. The Yanks, to many people, represent what's unfair about life.

For me, the Yankees worst crime is the Giambi signing, because that was done more to hurt the A's than to help the Yanks. Yankees brass conceeded that the A's were the team to beat in the AL, and found that by luring their best star with WAY MORE money, arm &amp; hammer commercials and a nice corporate hair-cut, they would remain at the top. Terrorism, in my opinion, because they robbed the average baseball fan of what was supposed to be a franchise-- imagine if Steinbrenner had stepped in to take Brooks Robinson and Jim Palmer from the 1968 Orioles, or Catfish Hunter and Reggie Jackson from the 1971 A's, or Johnny Bench and Joe Morgan from the 1974 Reds. Instead of using their finances to maybe draft and develope a Giambi, they just went out and bought one. So now the talent level of baseball has been taken down a notch. Bad for baseball, simply. They have tremendous recources for player development and a legacy of developing players not only blessed with skill but with know-how, and now that farm sits idle. It's a shame, and a waste.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

There is some truth in what you said, but one thing I wholeheartedly disagree with is the Giambi signing. The A's had him locked up, plain and simple. He was all ready to sign the deal in the spring of '01 (his last year with them) and wanted to stay with them. The A's dicked around with the no trade clause, and Giambi got fed up. If I recall correctly, it was to be a 6 year, 90 million dollar deal. Sure, the Yanks went over 100 million for him, but it should have never come to that. The A's had him. In this instance, blame the A's, not the system, for Giambi leaving.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

A no-trade clause for Giambi could be suicide for a team like the A's, when you have roughly 55 million to spend. The difference between the large and small market teams is the Yanks can overpay players... (i.e.. Giambi, Jeter, Contreras, HENSON..).. have those moves blow up in their face and still go out and sign a Sheffield &amp; a Mussina then trade for a Kevin Brown and Alex Rodriguez.

I guess you can look into it how you want, but put yourself in the A's shoes. Just because I won't put my entire franchise on the line (say giambi's knees continue to deteriorate and I've got a fourth of what I can pay all my players tied into him) means I'm somehow to blame for losing him. The blame has to be put on the system when the deck is so severely tilted-- when there's such a massive degree of difference between what one team can afford and what another can afford.

And you can't tell me that part of the reason the Yanks stepped in (with Tino coming off what, 120 rbis and Nick Johnson on the way up) wasn't to rob the A's, the one team in their league that had come within one game 2 straight years of beating them, of their best player. But hey, I agree that it was as some yankee fans say, 'well within the rules' for them to do so. But for the same fans to ask that their franchise be revered and not criticized? what's that about?

So while I don't make a habit of speaking the Evil Empire tag... there's absolute truth to it. Or maybe it should be 'the opportunistic empire'... evil has a better ring.

[deeman11747]

Re: Yankees vs. Redsox, time to put this to an end

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
dce1228 said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
dooch said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
dce1228 said:
I'm sure it was the press that dubbed the Yankees the Evil Empire and it was done mostly, IMO, to put more color into the Yankees/Red Sox... yankees/rest of baseball rivalry. The Red Sox on the other hand seem to be portrayed as the up-start that might be able to put the villian down in the end (though the Pedro incident in the playoffs coupled with Mann-Ram's antics makes it hard to sell that image any longer).

Why I think this duality exists is that more people can identify with the loser than the winner. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but life is a lot more about losing than about winning. The Red Sox represent that moment where someone who spent their whole life shoveling sh*t finally gets his or her moment to shine. The Yankees on the other hand are that priveledged, silver-spoon having type that turn their noses at everyone else. I mean, they have their championship run and instead of falling back in the standings they use their financial advantage to buy a bunch more players and remain at the top. Who wouldn't hate them, they're like the upper class kid who goofs off through college then just gets a high paying job because of his name. The Yanks, to many people, represent what's unfair about life.

For me, the Yankees worst crime is the Giambi signing, because that was done more to hurt the A's than to help the Yanks. Yankees brass conceeded that the A's were the team to beat in the AL, and found that by luring their best star with WAY MORE money, arm &amp; hammer commercials and a nice corporate hair-cut, they would remain at the top. Terrorism, in my opinion, because they robbed the average baseball fan of what was supposed to be a franchise-- imagine if Steinbrenner had stepped in to take Brooks Robinson and Jim Palmer from the 1968 Orioles, or Catfish Hunter and Reggie Jackson from the 1971 A's, or Johnny Bench and Joe Morgan from the 1974 Reds. Instead of using their finances to maybe draft and develope a Giambi, they just went out and bought one. So now the talent level of baseball has been taken down a notch. Bad for baseball, simply. They have tremendous recources for player development and a legacy of developing players not only blessed with skill but with know-how, and now that farm sits idle. It's a shame, and a waste.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

There is some truth in what you said, but one thing I wholeheartedly disagree with is the Giambi signing. The A's had him locked up, plain and simple. He was all ready to sign the deal in the spring of '01 (his last year with them) and wanted to stay with them. The A's dicked around with the no trade clause, and Giambi got fed up. If I recall correctly, it was to be a 6 year, 90 million dollar deal. Sure, the Yanks went over 100 million for him, but it should have never come to that. The A's had him. In this instance, blame the A's, not the system, for Giambi leaving.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

A no-trade clause for Giambi could be suicide for a team like the A's, when you have roughly 55 million to spend. The difference between the large and small market teams is the Yanks can overpay players... (i.e.. Giambi, Jeter, Contreras, HENSON..).. have those moves blow up in their face and still go out and sign a Sheffield &amp; a Mussina then trade for a Kevin Brown and Alex Rodriguez.

I guess you can look into it how you want, but put yourself in the A's shoes. Just because I won't put my entire franchise on the line (say giambi's knees continue to deteriorate and I've got a fourth of what I can pay all my players tied into him) means I'm somehow to blame for losing him. The blame has to be put on the system when the deck is so severely tilted-- when there's such a massive degree of difference between what one team can afford and what another can afford.

And you can't tell me that part of the reason the Yanks stepped in (with Tino coming off what, 120 rbis and Nick Johnson on the way up) wasn't to rob the A's, the one team in their league that had come within one game 2 straight years of beating them, of their best player. But hey, I agree that it was as some yankee fans say, 'well within the rules' for them to do so. But for the same fans to ask that their franchise be revered and not criticized? what's that about?

So while I don't make a habit of speaking the Evil Empire tag... there's absolute truth to it. Or maybe it should be 'the opportunistic empire'... evil has a better ring.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

In regards to the first post, I believe it was Luccino who patented the "Evil Empire" name for the Yankees. Also, don't ever think that the Yankees slack off just because they have a huge payroll. The majority of the team is hard working and dedicated to playing the game they love. Not just because I'm a Yankee fan but I truely believe deep down that some of the Red Sox are snobby, whiny, arrogant players. To name a few Manny, Pedro, and some others but not as much. The Red Sox do have some nice guys like Nomar, Varitek, and many others. But as long as Manny and Pedro are on the team, I'll see them as arrogant.

I even recall watching an interview I think in '99 when Pedro said something like "I am definitely the best pitcher in baseball, I would never want to face me."

I think his antics in Game 3 of the ALCS were disgraceful to baseball, and offenseive when he was indicatinbng that he'd throw at Posada's head. Then Manny goes and looks for an excuse to fight. It was disgusting.

The Yankees also didn't "rob" the A's in my eyes. The were trying to improve a team that had a hole at first base after Tino left.

For the comment that the Yankees represent whats unfair about life, you're 100% correct. But when I olook at Justin Timberlake riding around in limos with $100 million mansions, I see that life is unfair also. But thats what it is, life.

And if people can go everyday watching celebrities living the easy life with money, then no one has the right to complain that the Yankees have it easy with a lot of money, because baseball is more than a game, it is a business.

[deeman11747]

Re: Yankees vs. Redsox, time to put this to an end

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
dce1228 said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
dooch said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
dce1228 said:
I'm sure it was the press that dubbed the Yankees the Evil Empire and it was done mostly, IMO, to put more color into the Yankees/Red Sox... yankees/rest of baseball rivalry. The Red Sox on the other hand seem to be portrayed as the up-start that might be able to put the villian down in the end (though the Pedro incident in the playoffs coupled with Mann-Ram's antics makes it hard to sell that image any longer).

Why I think this duality exists is that more people can identify with the loser than the winner. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but life is a lot more about losing than about winning. The Red Sox represent that moment where someone who spent their whole life shoveling sh*t finally gets his or her moment to shine. The Yankees on the other hand are that priveledged, silver-spoon having type that turn their noses at everyone else. I mean, they have their championship run and instead of falling back in the standings they use their financial advantage to buy a bunch more players and remain at the top. Who wouldn't hate them, they're like the upper class kid who goofs off through college then just gets a high paying job because of his name. The Yanks, to many people, represent what's unfair about life.

For me, the Yankees worst crime is the Giambi signing, because that was done more to hurt the A's than to help the Yanks. Yankees brass conceeded that the A's were the team to beat in the AL, and found that by luring their best star with WAY MORE money, arm &amp; hammer commercials and a nice corporate hair-cut, they would remain at the top. Terrorism, in my opinion, because they robbed the average baseball fan of what was supposed to be a franchise-- imagine if Steinbrenner had stepped in to take Brooks Robinson and Jim Palmer from the 1968 Orioles, or Catfish Hunter and Reggie Jackson from the 1971 A's, or Johnny Bench and Joe Morgan from the 1974 Reds. Instead of using their finances to maybe draft and develope a Giambi, they just went out and bought one. So now the talent level of baseball has been taken down a notch. Bad for baseball, simply. They have tremendous recources for player development and a legacy of developing players not only blessed with skill but with know-how, and now that farm sits idle. It's a shame, and a waste.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

There is some truth in what you said, but one thing I wholeheartedly disagree with is the Giambi signing. The A's had him locked up, plain and simple. He was all ready to sign the deal in the spring of '01 (his last year with them) and wanted to stay with them. The A's dicked around with the no trade clause, and Giambi got fed up. If I recall correctly, it was to be a 6 year, 90 million dollar deal. Sure, the Yanks went over 100 million for him, but it should have never come to that. The A's had him. In this instance, blame the A's, not the system, for Giambi leaving.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

A no-trade clause for Giambi could be suicide for a team like the A's, when you have roughly 55 million to spend. The difference between the large and small market teams is the Yanks can overpay players... (i.e.. Giambi, Jeter, Contreras, HENSON..).. have those moves blow up in their face and still go out and sign a Sheffield &amp; a Mussina then trade for a Kevin Brown and Alex Rodriguez.

I guess you can look into it how you want, but put yourself in the A's shoes. Just because I won't put my entire franchise on the line (say giambi's knees continue to deteriorate and I've got a fourth of what I can pay all my players tied into him) means I'm somehow to blame for losing him. The blame has to be put on the system when the deck is so severely tilted-- when there's such a massive degree of difference between what one team can afford and what another can afford.

And you can't tell me that part of the reason the Yanks stepped in (with Tino coming off what, 120 rbis and Nick Johnson on the way up) wasn't to rob the A's, the one team in their league that had come within one game 2 straight years of beating them, of their best player. But hey, I agree that it was as some yankee fans say, 'well within the rules' for them to do so. But for the same fans to ask that their franchise be revered and not criticized? what's that about?

So while I don't make a habit of speaking the Evil Empire tag... there's absolute truth to it. Or maybe it should be 'the opportunistic empire'... evil has a better ring.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

In regards to the first post, I believe it was Luccino who patented the "Evil Empire" name for the Yankees. Also, don't ever think that the Yankees slack off just because they have a huge payroll. The majority of the team is hard working and dedicated to playing the game they love. Not just because I'm a Yankee fan but I truely believe deep down that some of the Red Sox are snobby, whiny, arrogant players. To name a few Manny, Pedro, and some others but not as much. The Red Sox do have some nice guys like Nomar, Varitek, and many others. But as long as Manny and Pedro are on the team, I'll see them as arrogant.

I even recall watching an interview I think in '99 when Pedro said something like "I am definitely the best pitcher in baseball, I would never want to face me."

I think his antics in Game 3 of the ALCS were disgraceful to baseball, and offenseive when he was indicatinbng that he'd throw at Posada's head. Then Manny goes and looks for an excuse to fight. It was disgusting.

The Yankees also didn't "rob" the A's in my eyes. The were trying to improve a team that had a hole at first base after Tino left.

For the comment that the Yankees represent whats unfair about life, you're 100% correct. But when I olook at Justin Timberlake riding around in limos with $100 million mansions, I see that life is unfair also. But thats what it is, life.

And if people can go everyday watching celebrities living the easy life with money, then no one has the right to complain that the Yankees have it easy with a lot of money, because baseball is more than a game, it is a business.

[deeman11747]

Re: Yankees vs. Redsox, time to put this to an end

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
dce1228 said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
dooch said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
dce1228 said:
I'm sure it was the press that dubbed the Yankees the Evil Empire and it was done mostly, IMO, to put more color into the Yankees/Red Sox... yankees/rest of baseball rivalry. The Red Sox on the other hand seem to be portrayed as the up-start that might be able to put the villian down in the end (though the Pedro incident in the playoffs coupled with Mann-Ram's antics makes it hard to sell that image any longer).

Why I think this duality exists is that more people can identify with the loser than the winner. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but life is a lot more about losing than about winning. The Red Sox represent that moment where someone who spent their whole life shoveling sh*t finally gets his or her moment to shine. The Yankees on the other hand are that priveledged, silver-spoon having type that turn their noses at everyone else. I mean, they have their championship run and instead of falling back in the standings they use their financial advantage to buy a bunch more players and remain at the top. Who wouldn't hate them, they're like the upper class kid who goofs off through college then just gets a high paying job because of his name. The Yanks, to many people, represent what's unfair about life.

For me, the Yankees worst crime is the Giambi signing, because that was done more to hurt the A's than to help the Yanks. Yankees brass conceeded that the A's were the team to beat in the AL, and found that by luring their best star with WAY MORE money, arm &amp; hammer commercials and a nice corporate hair-cut, they would remain at the top. Terrorism, in my opinion, because they robbed the average baseball fan of what was supposed to be a franchise-- imagine if Steinbrenner had stepped in to take Brooks Robinson and Jim Palmer from the 1968 Orioles, or Catfish Hunter and Reggie Jackson from the 1971 A's, or Johnny Bench and Joe Morgan from the 1974 Reds. Instead of using their finances to maybe draft and develope a Giambi, they just went out and bought one. So now the talent level of baseball has been taken down a notch. Bad for baseball, simply. They have tremendous recources for player development and a legacy of developing players not only blessed with skill but with know-how, and now that farm sits idle. It's a shame, and a waste.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

There is some truth in what you said, but one thing I wholeheartedly disagree with is the Giambi signing. The A's had him locked up, plain and simple. He was all ready to sign the deal in the spring of '01 (his last year with them) and wanted to stay with them. The A's dicked around with the no trade clause, and Giambi got fed up. If I recall correctly, it was to be a 6 year, 90 million dollar deal. Sure, the Yanks went over 100 million for him, but it should have never come to that. The A's had him. In this instance, blame the A's, not the system, for Giambi leaving.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

A no-trade clause for Giambi could be suicide for a team like the A's, when you have roughly 55 million to spend. The difference between the large and small market teams is the Yanks can overpay players... (i.e.. Giambi, Jeter, Contreras, HENSON..).. have those moves blow up in their face and still go out and sign a Sheffield &amp; a Mussina then trade for a Kevin Brown and Alex Rodriguez.

I guess you can look into it how you want, but put yourself in the A's shoes. Just because I won't put my entire franchise on the line (say giambi's knees continue to deteriorate and I've got a fourth of what I can pay all my players tied into him) means I'm somehow to blame for losing him. The blame has to be put on the system when the deck is so severely tilted-- when there's such a massive degree of difference between what one team can afford and what another can afford.

And you can't tell me that part of the reason the Yanks stepped in (with Tino coming off what, 120 rbis and Nick Johnson on the way up) wasn't to rob the A's, the one team in their league that had come within one game 2 straight years of beating them, of their best player. But hey, I agree that it was as some yankee fans say, 'well within the rules' for them to do so. But for the same fans to ask that their franchise be revered and not criticized? what's that about?

So while I don't make a habit of speaking the Evil Empire tag... there's absolute truth to it. Or maybe it should be 'the opportunistic empire'... evil has a better ring.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

In regards to the first post, I believe it was Luccino who patented the "Evil Empire" name for the Yankees. Also, don't ever think that the Yankees slack off just because they have a huge payroll. The majority of the team is hard working and dedicated to playing the game they love. Not just because I'm a Yankee fan but I truely believe deep down that some of the Red Sox are snobby, whiny, arrogant players. To name a few Manny, Pedro, and some others but not as much. The Red Sox do have some nice guys like Nomar, Varitek, and many others. But as long as Manny and Pedro are on the team, I'll see them as arrogant.

I even recall watching an interview I think in '99 when Pedro said something like "I am definitely the best pitcher in baseball, I would never want to face me."

I think his antics in Game 3 of the ALCS were disgraceful to baseball, and offenseive when he was indicatinbng that he'd throw at Posada's head. Then Manny goes and looks for an excuse to fight. It was disgusting.

The Yankees also didn't "rob" the A's in my eyes. The were trying to improve a team that had a hole at first base after Tino left.

For the comment that the Yankees represent whats unfair about life, you're 100% correct. But when I olook at Justin Timberlake riding around in limos with $100 million mansions, I see that life is unfair also. But thats what it is, life.

And if people can go everyday watching celebrities living the easy life with money, then no one has the right to complain that the Yankees have it easy with a lot of money, because baseball is more than a game, it is a business.

[K_GUN]

Re: Yankees vs. Redsox, time to put this to an end

are u the guy that was on TV in game 1 of ALCS that said TODD WALKERS HR was a foul ball too?

[K_GUN]

Re: Yankees vs. Redsox, time to put this to an end

are u the guy that was on TV in game 1 of ALCS that said TODD WALKERS HR was a foul ball too?