What does the Most Valuable Player mean to you?

[TeixeiraFanatic]

Watching MLB Now just got me thinking about last year's MVP debate and more specifically the definition of Most Valuable Player. I remember the majority of OS believed that Trout deserved to win over Cabrera (as did I), and I just wanted to hear what everybody believes contributes to winning the MVP.

As for me, I believe that Trout should have won because he was the best player in baseball last year. I don't get the "Cabrera led his team to the playoffs and Trout didn't" argument. Put Cabrera on the Angels and Trout on the Tigers and I guarantee you both teams finish in the same places. It's not that Cabrera was more valuable, it was that the surrounding cast in Detroit was performing much better than that of the Angels.

What do you think?

[Mike3207]

Re: What does the Most Valuable Player mean to you?

Watching MLB Now just got me thinking about last year's MVP debate and more specifically the definition of Most Valuable Player. I remember the majority of OS believed that Trout deserved to win over Cabrera (as did I), and I just wanted to hear what everybody believes contributes to winning the MVP.

As for me, I believe that Trout should have won because he was the best player in baseball last year. I don't get the "Cabrera led his team to the playoffs and Trout didn't" argument. Put Cabrera on the Angels and Trout on the Tigers and I guarantee you both teams finish in the same places. It's not that Cabrera was more valuable, it was that the surrounding cast in Detroit was performing much better than that of the Angels.



What do you think?

What the vote showed-it's still about the counting numbers. BA, HR, RBI-at least it is for the writers. That and making the playoffs is still a big deal for the writers. If Trout had played the whole season-but he didn't. We may get to the point where fielding and the more advanced stats are taken more into context, but it might take quite a while.

[dingleberryfinn]

Re: What does the Most Valuable Player mean to you?

I don't put much stock in 'em.
It's like trying to pick an All-Star team but only being able
to put one player on the team.
Sure, there;s only one MVP, but there's always a few worthy candidates.

I just don't get caught up in the awards thing, but it's alright to have those
awards as it's nice to have a few minutes of (non-post-season baseball, yer gonna get plenty of play-off talk) baseball after the regular season is over & football is in full effect.

[Perfect Zero]

Re: What does the Most Valuable Player mean to you?

I know that I'm in the minority, but the fact of the matter was that Miguel Cabrera was more valuable than Mike Trout was. Without Trout, the Angels still finish in third place. Without Cabrera, the Tigers have a lesser chance of winning the Central and certainly do not win the American League. It's pretty simple actually.

[1stpitchhacker]

Re: What does the Most Valuable Player mean to you?

I know that I'm in the minority, but the fact of the matter was that Miguel Cabrera was more valuable than Mike Trout was. Without Trout, the Angels still finish in third place. Without Cabrera, the Tigers have a lesser chance of winning the Central and certainly do not win the American League. It's pretty simple actually.

Rather than be troubled by the possibility that this was a serious argument, I'm gonna go on prerending that you were joking.

[lonewolf371]

Re: What does the Most Valuable Player mean to you?

I know that I'm in the minority, but the fact of the matter was that Miguel Cabrera was more valuable than Mike Trout was. Without Trout, the Angels still finish in third place. Without Cabrera, the Tigers have a lesser chance of winning the Central and certainly do not win the American League. It's pretty simple actually.

Without Trout, the Angels don't have a better record than the Tigers last year.

[Perfect Zero]

Re: What does the Most Valuable Player mean to you?

Rather than be troubled by the possibility that this was a serious argument, I'm gonna go on prerending that you were joking.

This is a serious argument. If there is a WAR Champion, then yeah the winner is Trout. This is a subjective award though; it involves looking at both the stats and the play on the field.

I have a feeling that this is going to turn into a big SABRmetrics vs. Old School argument. It's like questions of politics and religion; nobody can find or even wants to find middle ground. The Award is for "Most Valuable Player", Cabrera was more valuable than Trout last year. That's why they vote on these things...

But go on prerending.

Without Trout, the Angels don't have a better record than the Tigers last year.

The new Wild Card makes it to where you have to win your division. The Tigers beat the teams that mattered and the Angels didn't.

[royals19]

Re: What does the Most Valuable Player mean to you?

To me, the MVP shouldn't be all about the numbers the player puts up, it should be all about the player's ability influence the outcome of a game or about their ability to impact games. While Miguel Cabrera did win last year, it wasn't like Detroit wasn't going to make it to the postseason without him. He's a dynamic game changer and he's probably a better baseball player than Mike Trout. However, Mike Trout can change the outcome of a game in so many different ways than Cabrera can with Trout's athletic ability and tools. If you look at what he did for the Angels last year and compare that to what Miggy did for the Tigers, Trout blows him out of the water.

Miguel Cabrera put up some gawdy numbers and won the triple crown but the fact of the matter is, Detroit was going to make the playoffs with or without him so he didn't really change the course of their season, whereas the Angels would've come no where close to where they did with Trout in their lineup.

[lonewolf371]

Re: What does the Most Valuable Player mean to you?

This is a serious argument. If there is a WAR Champion, then yeah the winner is Trout. This is a subjective award though; it involves looking at both the stats and the play on the field.

I have a feeling that this is going to turn into a big SABRmetrics vs. Old School argument. It's like questions of politics and religion; nobody can find or even wants to find middle ground. The Award is for "Most Valuable Player", Cabrera was more valuable than Trout last year. That's why they vote on these things...

But go on prerending.

The new Wild Card makes it to where you have to win your division. The Tigers beat the teams that mattered and the Angels didn't.

The argument you presented in the first post is silly. Cabrera should not get the reward because his baseball team made the playoffs. He might be the difference between them making the playoffs and not, but so was Verlander, Scherzer, Fielder, etc. By that argument they're all worthy of the MVP, but of course we know that's ridiculous. The making the playoffs argument doesn't consider at all what sort of baseline you're starting from, the context of division or league, etc.

Now, last year Cabrera was better than Trout offensively. Trout didn't hit as well, was a far better base runner, but overall Cabrera was probably better offensively. On the other hand, Trout was far better defensively. Throw all the stats out the window and ask the scouts about defense, and they'll say Trout is amazing. The key thing here is the "old school" people are in fact more stat-driven than the SABR people, because there are no good stats for defense. As a result, the old school people don't even consider how valuable that could be for a team; they look at Cabrera's bat and say that the argument's over. That's silly; defense is a big part of the game, along with base running, and a player's ability to run down fly balls, throw to the infield, and turn his team's singles into 3-base hits when he starts on first are all things that make a player "valuable." Trout is amazing at all those things, but there are no great stats for showing how much better he is at them than Cabrera. As a result, "old school" people just toss them all out.

[1stpitchhacker]

Re: What does the Most Valuable Player mean to you?

To me, the MVP shouldn't be all about the numbers the player puts up, it should be all about the player's ability influence the outcome of a game or about their ability to impact games. While Miguel Cabrera did win last year, it wasn't like Detroit wasn't going to make it to the postseason without him. He's a dynamic game changer and he's probably a better baseball player than Mike Trout. However, Mike Trout can change the outcome of a game in so many different ways than Cabrera can with Trout's athletic ability and tools. If you look at what he did for the Angels last year and compare that to what Miggy did for the Tigers, Trout blows him out of the water.

Miguel Cabrera put up some gawdy numbers and won the triple crown but the fact of the matter is, Detroit was going to make the playoffs with or without him so he didn't really change the course of their season, whereas the Angels would've come no where close to where they did with Trout in their lineup.

Outstanding logic here. Especially the parts where "Trout blows him out of the water" and "Detroit was going to make the playoffs with or without him". You MUST be a major league GM.

[24]

Re: What does the Most Valuable Player mean to you?

The Most Valuable Player to me should truly mean the Player Most Valuable to the team. That doesn't necessarily mean he's the best Hitter in the League it means he is essentially worth more then the other guy.

A perfect example of this was last season's MVP award race. Miguel Cabrera was without a doubt the best hitter but Mike Trout was more valuable. Trout had a 10.9 WAR to Cabrera's 7.3. The last Player to put up a WAR of that high was Barry Bonds in 2004. In which he had an absolutely insane year.

I'm not denying what Miguel Cabrera did last season. His Triple Crown performance was incredible. But just because you win the Triple Crown does not mean you are the most value to your team. Trout was better on the basepath's in the field and put up very similar OPS and Total Base numbers despite paying 22 games less than Miguel Cabrera.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: What does the Most Valuable Player mean to you?

It's a total combination of so many factors, but they have to be valuable for SOMETHING. If there's a player that has the best stats and all that buuuuuuuut the team is like 15 games out of first at the end of the year, then what are they really valuable for?

If there's a player who has the best stats and his team finishes, oh, two or three games out, then okay

I usually don't have problems with who gets MVP awards though, as there could be a rationale for most every situation. Can't remember the last baseball MVP award I had an issue with.

[BleacherBum2310]

Re: What does the Most Valuable Player mean to you?

For me, It's the best player that given year.

I really don't factor standings into it at all. That argument is silly.

[1stpitchhacker]

Re: What does the Most Valuable Player mean to you?

It's a total combination of so many factors, but they have to be valuable for SOMETHING. If there's a player that has the best stats and all that buuuuuuuut the team is like 15 games out of first at the end of the year, then what are they really valuable for?

If there's a player who has the best stats and his team finishes, oh, two or three games out, then okay

I usually don't have problems with who gets MVP awards though, as there could be a rationale for most every situation. Can't remember the last baseball MVP award I had an issue with.

Dude you're joking right

[kehlis]

Re: What does the Most Valuable Player mean to you?

Dude you're joking right

You REALLY need to drop the internet tough guy attitude if you want to be here much longer.

This isn't the place for that.


Feel free to discuss like a mature adult if you would like to though.