We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

**zappa55** · 03-03-2004, 09:05 PM

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
MagicUser said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SportsmanTO said:
To those talking about cheating in the past. Let's face facts when pitchers were throwing spitballs and hiding razor blades etc etc. It was being done in the EARLY days of baseball when the game was not as organized and powerful as it is today. The spitball and other variations were banned in the early 20th century. You can't compare that era to now when players KNOW that they run the risk of career suicide if caught with steiroids.

<hr /></blockquote>

Spitballs may have been banned in the early 20th century, Gaylord Perry, by his own admission, threw a greased ball his entire career in the 60's and 70's, even though he was only caught once.

Look at Perry's accomplishments: All-Star Games (5): 1966, 1970, 1972, 1974, 1979; Cy Young 1972 and 1978. Perry was the first man to win the Cy Young in both leagues. And by his own admission, he was cheating all the way. He is in the Hall for his efforts.

<hr /></blockquote>

There is a big difference in spit balls and steroids. Spit balls can be compared to corked bats but not steroids. You only run the risk of getting caught and suspended throwing spitballs and using corked bats. Using steroids runs a serious risk to your health anyone heard of Lyle Alzedo. That is why steroids are more serious than other forms of cheating. It is not fair to expect other players to risk their health in order to be competitive.

**SPTO** · 03-03-2004, 09:06 PM

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
MagicUser said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SportsmanTO said:
To those talking about cheating in the past. Let's face facts when pitchers were throwing spitballs and hiding razor blades etc etc. It was being done in the EARLY days of baseball when the game was not as organized and powerful as it is today. The spitball and other variations were banned in the early 20th century. You can't compare that era to now when players KNOW that they run the risk of career suicide if caught with steiroids.

<hr /></blockquote>

Spitballs may have been banned in the early 20th century, Gaylord Perry, by his own admission, threw a greased ball his entire career in the 60's and 70's, even though he was only caught once.

Look at Perry's accomplishments: All-Star Games (5): 1966, 1970, 1972, 1974, 1979; Cy Young 1972 and 1978. Perry was the first man to win the Cy Young in both leagues. And by his own admission, he was cheating all the way. He is in the Hall for his efforts.

<hr /></blockquote>

For every Gaylord Perry there is a Mike Scott. Remember him? In 1986 he was suspected of using a scuffed ball. No one could outright confirm that he did throw one but the suspicion was out there. After 1986 he became a much more mediocre pitcher.

What i'm trying to say is, that kind of cheating MAY give results but the kind of stuff that Bonds et al are suspected of doing have BIGGER implications. Besides Gaylord Perry was a very good pitcher but he was never SUPER great. Heck he bounced around what seemed to be every Major League team!

**SPTO** · 03-03-2004, 09:06 PM

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
MagicUser said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SportsmanTO said:
To those talking about cheating in the past. Let's face facts when pitchers were throwing spitballs and hiding razor blades etc etc. It was being done in the EARLY days of baseball when the game was not as organized and powerful as it is today. The spitball and other variations were banned in the early 20th century. You can't compare that era to now when players KNOW that they run the risk of career suicide if caught with steiroids.

<hr /></blockquote>

Spitballs may have been banned in the early 20th century, Gaylord Perry, by his own admission, threw a greased ball his entire career in the 60's and 70's, even though he was only caught once.

Look at Perry's accomplishments: All-Star Games (5): 1966, 1970, 1972, 1974, 1979; Cy Young 1972 and 1978. Perry was the first man to win the Cy Young in both leagues. And by his own admission, he was cheating all the way. He is in the Hall for his efforts.

<hr /></blockquote>

For every Gaylord Perry there is a Mike Scott. Remember him? In 1986 he was suspected of using a scuffed ball. No one could outright confirm that he did throw one but the suspicion was out there. After 1986 he became a much more mediocre pitcher.

What i'm trying to say is, that kind of cheating MAY give results but the kind of stuff that Bonds et al are suspected of doing have BIGGER implications. Besides Gaylord Perry was a very good pitcher but he was never SUPER great. Heck he bounced around what seemed to be every Major League team!

**SPTO** · 03-03-2004, 09:06 PM

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
MagicUser said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SportsmanTO said:
To those talking about cheating in the past. Let's face facts when pitchers were throwing spitballs and hiding razor blades etc etc. It was being done in the EARLY days of baseball when the game was not as organized and powerful as it is today. The spitball and other variations were banned in the early 20th century. You can't compare that era to now when players KNOW that they run the risk of career suicide if caught with steiroids.

<hr /></blockquote>

Spitballs may have been banned in the early 20th century, Gaylord Perry, by his own admission, threw a greased ball his entire career in the 60's and 70's, even though he was only caught once.

Look at Perry's accomplishments: All-Star Games (5): 1966, 1970, 1972, 1974, 1979; Cy Young 1972 and 1978. Perry was the first man to win the Cy Young in both leagues. And by his own admission, he was cheating all the way. He is in the Hall for his efforts.

<hr /></blockquote>

For every Gaylord Perry there is a Mike Scott. Remember him? In 1986 he was suspected of using a scuffed ball. No one could outright confirm that he did throw one but the suspicion was out there. After 1986 he became a much more mediocre pitcher.

What i'm trying to say is, that kind of cheating MAY give results but the kind of stuff that Bonds et al are suspected of doing have BIGGER implications. Besides Gaylord Perry was a very good pitcher but he was never SUPER great. Heck he bounced around what seemed to be every Major League team!

**SubZ** · 03-03-2004, 10:29 PM

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

I have no sympathy for the players because all they have to do is take a test and all questions will be answered. If Sammy wanted to clear his name all he had to do was take an independant test instead of exploding on that reporter "You not my foddah!"

Barry Bonds, same thing. Go have a test and END IT. I damn sure would if I was accused of cheating and I were innocent. Pulling the Players Assn. excuse is getting old.

**SubZ** · 03-03-2004, 10:29 PM

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

I have no sympathy for the players because all they have to do is take a test and all questions will be answered. If Sammy wanted to clear his name all he had to do was take an independant test instead of exploding on that reporter "You not my foddah!"

Barry Bonds, same thing. Go have a test and END IT. I damn sure would if I was accused of cheating and I were innocent. Pulling the Players Assn. excuse is getting old.

**SubZ** · 03-03-2004, 10:29 PM

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

I have no sympathy for the players because all they have to do is take a test and all questions will be answered. If Sammy wanted to clear his name all he had to do was take an independant test instead of exploding on that reporter "You not my foddah!"

Barry Bonds, same thing. Go have a test and END IT. I damn sure would if I was accused of cheating and I were innocent. Pulling the Players Assn. excuse is getting old.

**cookusu** · 03-03-2004, 11:19 PM

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SportsmanTO said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
MagicUser said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SportsmanTO said:
To those talking about cheating in the past. Let's face facts when pitchers were throwing spitballs and hiding razor blades etc etc. It was being done in the EARLY days of baseball when the game was not as organized and powerful as it is today. The spitball and other variations were banned in the early 20th century. You can't compare that era to now when players KNOW that they run the risk of career suicide if caught with steiroids.

<hr /></blockquote>

Spitballs may have been banned in the early 20th century, Gaylord Perry, by his own admission, threw a greased ball his entire career in the 60's and 70's, even though he was only caught once.

Look at Perry's accomplishments: All-Star Games (5): 1966, 1970, 1972, 1974, 1979; Cy Young 1972 and 1978. Perry was the first man to win the Cy Young in both leagues. And by his own admission, he was cheating all the way. He is in the Hall for his efforts.

<hr /></blockquote>

For every Gaylord Perry there is a Mike Scott. Remember him? In 1986 he was suspected of using a scuffed ball. No one could outright confirm that he did throw one but the suspicion was out there. After 1986 he became a much more mediocre pitcher.

What i'm trying to say is, that kind of cheating MAY give results but the kind of stuff that Bonds et al are suspected of doing have BIGGER implications. Besides Gaylord Perry was a very good pitcher but he was never SUPER great. Heck he bounced around what seemed to be every Major League team!

<hr /></blockquote>

Sportsman,

Gaylord Perry is in the HOF he was a great pitcher, he bounced around at the end of his career spent most of his early career with Giants than the Indians, just wanted to clear that up.

We really don't know the implications of his cheating or any steroid users cheating, how do we know what the a clean Ken Caminitti might have done in those same years?

**cookusu** · 03-03-2004, 11:19 PM

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SportsmanTO said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
MagicUser said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SportsmanTO said:
To those talking about cheating in the past. Let's face facts when pitchers were throwing spitballs and hiding razor blades etc etc. It was being done in the EARLY days of baseball when the game was not as organized and powerful as it is today. The spitball and other variations were banned in the early 20th century. You can't compare that era to now when players KNOW that they run the risk of career suicide if caught with steiroids.

<hr /></blockquote>

Spitballs may have been banned in the early 20th century, Gaylord Perry, by his own admission, threw a greased ball his entire career in the 60's and 70's, even though he was only caught once.

Look at Perry's accomplishments: All-Star Games (5): 1966, 1970, 1972, 1974, 1979; Cy Young 1972 and 1978. Perry was the first man to win the Cy Young in both leagues. And by his own admission, he was cheating all the way. He is in the Hall for his efforts.

<hr /></blockquote>

For every Gaylord Perry there is a Mike Scott. Remember him? In 1986 he was suspected of using a scuffed ball. No one could outright confirm that he did throw one but the suspicion was out there. After 1986 he became a much more mediocre pitcher.

What i'm trying to say is, that kind of cheating MAY give results but the kind of stuff that Bonds et al are suspected of doing have BIGGER implications. Besides Gaylord Perry was a very good pitcher but he was never SUPER great. Heck he bounced around what seemed to be every Major League team!

<hr /></blockquote>

Sportsman,

Gaylord Perry is in the HOF he was a great pitcher, he bounced around at the end of his career spent most of his early career with Giants than the Indians, just wanted to clear that up.

We really don't know the implications of his cheating or any steroid users cheating, how do we know what the a clean Ken Caminitti might have done in those same years?

**cookusu** · 03-03-2004, 11:19 PM

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SportsmanTO said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
MagicUser said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SportsmanTO said:
To those talking about cheating in the past. Let's face facts when pitchers were throwing spitballs and hiding razor blades etc etc. It was being done in the EARLY days of baseball when the game was not as organized and powerful as it is today. The spitball and other variations were banned in the early 20th century. You can't compare that era to now when players KNOW that they run the risk of career suicide if caught with steiroids.

<hr /></blockquote>

Spitballs may have been banned in the early 20th century, Gaylord Perry, by his own admission, threw a greased ball his entire career in the 60's and 70's, even though he was only caught once.

Look at Perry's accomplishments: All-Star Games (5): 1966, 1970, 1972, 1974, 1979; Cy Young 1972 and 1978. Perry was the first man to win the Cy Young in both leagues. And by his own admission, he was cheating all the way. He is in the Hall for his efforts.

<hr /></blockquote>

For every Gaylord Perry there is a Mike Scott. Remember him? In 1986 he was suspected of using a scuffed ball. No one could outright confirm that he did throw one but the suspicion was out there. After 1986 he became a much more mediocre pitcher.

What i'm trying to say is, that kind of cheating MAY give results but the kind of stuff that Bonds et al are suspected of doing have BIGGER implications. Besides Gaylord Perry was a very good pitcher but he was never SUPER great. Heck he bounced around what seemed to be every Major League team!

<hr /></blockquote>

Sportsman,

Gaylord Perry is in the HOF he was a great pitcher, he bounced around at the end of his career spent most of his early career with Giants than the Indians, just wanted to clear that up.

We really don't know the implications of his cheating or any steroid users cheating, how do we know what the a clean Ken Caminitti might have done in those same years?

**cookusu** · 03-03-2004, 11:26 PM

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Erod said:
Overreact? Cookusu, I would think you'd be right on board with me here.

Yes, it bothers me a lot that every major league home record has been broken in the past six years.

How many guys have beaten Maris' 61 homers now? Aren't we up to like 36 now in six years? I'm exagerrating, but it won't be long until that's right.

And all by roided out cheaters. Argh.

The beauty of baseball is in its records, particularly power hitting. They mean nothing anymore.

Home runs are so anti-clamactic now. It's sad.

<hr /></blockquote>

Why would you think I would be right on board with you in overrreacting to this?

Reality is had steroids been available to guys in the 20's some would have taken them. This glorious past where everyone was honest and were true hereos like Roger Maris, never existed. To be honest I think the bigger question ought to be why did it take so long for more guys to get up to Maris's record. When guys are obviously stronger and better conditioned, must have been the great pitching.

I am not for cheating but I refuse to pretend that somehow it is only this generation that is flawed.

**cookusu** · 03-03-2004, 11:26 PM

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Erod said:
Overreact? Cookusu, I would think you'd be right on board with me here.

Yes, it bothers me a lot that every major league home record has been broken in the past six years.

How many guys have beaten Maris' 61 homers now? Aren't we up to like 36 now in six years? I'm exagerrating, but it won't be long until that's right.

And all by roided out cheaters. Argh.

The beauty of baseball is in its records, particularly power hitting. They mean nothing anymore.

Home runs are so anti-clamactic now. It's sad.

<hr /></blockquote>

Why would you think I would be right on board with you in overrreacting to this?

Reality is had steroids been available to guys in the 20's some would have taken them. This glorious past where everyone was honest and were true hereos like Roger Maris, never existed. To be honest I think the bigger question ought to be why did it take so long for more guys to get up to Maris's record. When guys are obviously stronger and better conditioned, must have been the great pitching.

I am not for cheating but I refuse to pretend that somehow it is only this generation that is flawed.

**cookusu** · 03-03-2004, 11:26 PM

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Erod said:
Overreact? Cookusu, I would think you'd be right on board with me here.

Yes, it bothers me a lot that every major league home record has been broken in the past six years.

How many guys have beaten Maris' 61 homers now? Aren't we up to like 36 now in six years? I'm exagerrating, but it won't be long until that's right.

And all by roided out cheaters. Argh.

The beauty of baseball is in its records, particularly power hitting. They mean nothing anymore.

Home runs are so anti-clamactic now. It's sad.

<hr /></blockquote>

Why would you think I would be right on board with you in overrreacting to this?

Reality is had steroids been available to guys in the 20's some would have taken them. This glorious past where everyone was honest and were true hereos like Roger Maris, never existed. To be honest I think the bigger question ought to be why did it take so long for more guys to get up to Maris's record. When guys are obviously stronger and better conditioned, must have been the great pitching.

I am not for cheating but I refuse to pretend that somehow it is only this generation that is flawed.

**cookusu** · 03-04-2004, 12:04 AM

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

In Regards to Sosa, yes I am bias, but so are most of you guys who bash him.

I have watched Sosa's career closely since he came to the White Sox, and there has not been one year where he just suddenly showed up and was way bigger than the last. In fact the year before or maybe even the year of his breakout season he was accused of being over weight and out of shape when he came into camp. Plus one year he hit 40 HR's in about 120 games. Broke his wrist I think.

I have no idea what Sosa has taken in his life just by looking at him, no more than I do if I look at pictures of EROD. I can look at pictures of me and see that my head looks bigger from the time I was 23 and 25 till now and I am 38. 3 Hat sizes EROD? Come on, I know you love to exaggerate, but that is ridiculous.

Sosa got better when he learned the strike zone their is a direct corrleation between the amount of walks he drew and the number of HR's he hit.

**cookusu** · 03-04-2004, 12:04 AM

Re: We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

In Regards to Sosa, yes I am bias, but so are most of you guys who bash him.

I have watched Sosa's career closely since he came to the White Sox, and there has not been one year where he just suddenly showed up and was way bigger than the last. In fact the year before or maybe even the year of his breakout season he was accused of being over weight and out of shape when he came into camp. Plus one year he hit 40 HR's in about 120 games. Broke his wrist I think.

I have no idea what Sosa has taken in his life just by looking at him, no more than I do if I look at pictures of EROD. I can look at pictures of me and see that my head looks bigger from the time I was 23 and 25 till now and I am 38. 3 Hat sizes EROD? Come on, I know you love to exaggerate, but that is ridiculous.

Sosa got better when he learned the strike zone their is a direct corrleation between the amount of walks he drew and the number of HR's he hit.

We should kill baseball altogether, then bring it back in five years

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