Hall of Fame Analysis: Derek Jeter

[BigTim]

Re: Hall of Fame Analysis: Derek Jeter

Derek Jeter IMO is a HOF'er but not first ballot. (unless the HOF class that year is poor) He's been a very steady ballplayer throughout his career but he isn't a franchise player, wasn't the best at his position for the bulk of his career etc etc. He is very fortunate that he came up on a very good Yankees team. I wonder tho if he was on any other team would he still get the press and attention that he does now? Probably not, so being a Yankee has raised his profile and made him bigger than what he would be if he were on a middle of the road franchise in terms of hype and talent.

you can say that about a lot of players in every sport though.

Emmitt
Clemens(sure he was incredible, but wins are a big part of baseball, stupidly)
Pippen
Jagr

I know none of them are in the HoF, but they were considered the best in their sport at one time, save for Pippen(but he is in the NBA100).

With that said, right now, Jeter DOES NOT go into the HoF, much like Brady doesnt in the NFL. They are both terrific players in their own right, but they still need to be good for another 4-5 seasons for me to consider them to be the best.

I personally think too many players are invited into the HoF in all sports, there have been some years where I dont think anyone should be making it in, and then some where I think more should go.

[BigTim]

Re: Hall of Fame Analysis: Derek Jeter

Derek Jeter IMO is a HOF'er but not first ballot. (unless the HOF class that year is poor) He's been a very steady ballplayer throughout his career but he isn't a franchise player, wasn't the best at his position for the bulk of his career etc etc. He is very fortunate that he came up on a very good Yankees team. I wonder tho if he was on any other team would he still get the press and attention that he does now? Probably not, so being a Yankee has raised his profile and made him bigger than what he would be if he were on a middle of the road franchise in terms of hype and talent.

you can say that about a lot of players in every sport though.

Emmitt
Clemens(sure he was incredible, but wins are a big part of baseball, stupidly)
Pippen
Jagr

I know none of them are in the HoF, but they were considered the best in their sport at one time, save for Pippen(but he is in the NBA100).

With that said, right now, Jeter DOES NOT go into the HoF, much like Brady doesnt in the NFL. They are both terrific players in their own right, but they still need to be good for another 4-5 seasons for me to consider them to be the best.

I personally think too many players are invited into the HoF in all sports, there have been some years where I dont think anyone should be making it in, and then some where I think more should go.

[NYJets]

Re: Hall of Fame Analysis: Derek Jeter

Jeter is a sure-fire hall of famer at this point in his career. In my opinion, he is an average defender. Below average implies he is at times a liability in the field and I don't see him as that. At the plate, he may not have the offensive power of an Arod, Nomar, or Tejada, but his production is still better than most shortstops, past or present. His baserunning skills are among the best in the league and he does have a nice collection of rings that he was influential in attaining. I don't distinguish between first ballot or x ballot, to me a hall of famer is a hall of famer and should get in on the first ballotn, so I'll say he's a first ballot hall of famer in my book.

Good post. Sums up my thoughts pretty well.

[NYJets]

Re: Hall of Fame Analysis: Derek Jeter

Jeter is a sure-fire hall of famer at this point in his career. In my opinion, he is an average defender. Below average implies he is at times a liability in the field and I don't see him as that. At the plate, he may not have the offensive power of an Arod, Nomar, or Tejada, but his production is still better than most shortstops, past or present. His baserunning skills are among the best in the league and he does have a nice collection of rings that he was influential in attaining. I don't distinguish between first ballot or x ballot, to me a hall of famer is a hall of famer and should get in on the first ballotn, so I'll say he's a first ballot hall of famer in my book.

Good post. Sums up my thoughts pretty well.

[Hootiefish]

Re: Hall of Fame Analysis: Derek Jeter

Do I think Jeter is a HOFer? Yes. Do I think that he will get into the HOF? In all probability. Will it be based only on his stats as a ballplayer? At this point, I would have to say no. I was curious to see how Jeter stacked up to another Yankee Captain, Don Mattingly. Everyone thought that Mattingly was a sure fire HOFer after his first 9 full seasons in the majors (same as Jeter has at this point). Granted, Mattingly didn't have the rings that Jeter had, but I would hardly blame that on Donnie Baseball. Just to take a look at their stats after 9 full seasons:

Mattingly
.314 Avg
1568 Hits
178 HR
826 RBI
5 Gold Gloves
1 MVP

Jeter
.315 Avg
1722 Hits
150 HR
686 RBI
201 SB
1 Gold Glove
ROY
WS MVP

I am simply playing devil's advocate here, but in terms of popularity and intangibles, Jeter and Mattingly were very similar. The main difference was that Jeter has had a team surrounding him where as Mattingly did not (unless you include Danny Tartabull). What happened to Mattingly? As most of us know, injuries soon took their toll and Mattingly retired after the 1995 season (?). A sure fire HOFer was soon turned into a baseball sidenote whose only chance at the HOF is through the Vets Committee in about 20 years.

What does all of this mean? Jeter does not have the injury history that Mattingly had by his 9th season, but with Jeter's reckless abandon at playing the game, you never know what could happen. If Jeter were to flounder around the game for 5 years with injury problems, what would happen to his legacy?

As I said before, I am simply playing devil's advocate here. HOF debates are fun, but risky. 5 years ago, my man Junior was a baseball God. Now, there are some writers and fans who don't consider him Hall worthy. A career can't be taken in full until we see the full career. Or something like that. Wow, I just wrote a full post and didn't say a damn thing.

[Hootiefish]

Re: Hall of Fame Analysis: Derek Jeter

Do I think Jeter is a HOFer? Yes. Do I think that he will get into the HOF? In all probability. Will it be based only on his stats as a ballplayer? At this point, I would have to say no. I was curious to see how Jeter stacked up to another Yankee Captain, Don Mattingly. Everyone thought that Mattingly was a sure fire HOFer after his first 9 full seasons in the majors (same as Jeter has at this point). Granted, Mattingly didn't have the rings that Jeter had, but I would hardly blame that on Donnie Baseball. Just to take a look at their stats after 9 full seasons:

Mattingly
.314 Avg
1568 Hits
178 HR
826 RBI
5 Gold Gloves
1 MVP

Jeter
.315 Avg
1722 Hits
150 HR
686 RBI
201 SB
1 Gold Glove
ROY
WS MVP

I am simply playing devil's advocate here, but in terms of popularity and intangibles, Jeter and Mattingly were very similar. The main difference was that Jeter has had a team surrounding him where as Mattingly did not (unless you include Danny Tartabull). What happened to Mattingly? As most of us know, injuries soon took their toll and Mattingly retired after the 1995 season (?). A sure fire HOFer was soon turned into a baseball sidenote whose only chance at the HOF is through the Vets Committee in about 20 years.

What does all of this mean? Jeter does not have the injury history that Mattingly had by his 9th season, but with Jeter's reckless abandon at playing the game, you never know what could happen. If Jeter were to flounder around the game for 5 years with injury problems, what would happen to his legacy?

As I said before, I am simply playing devil's advocate here. HOF debates are fun, but risky. 5 years ago, my man Junior was a baseball God. Now, there are some writers and fans who don't consider him Hall worthy. A career can't be taken in full until we see the full career. Or something like that. Wow, I just wrote a full post and didn't say a damn thing.

[Nivek]

Re: Hall of Fame Analysis: Derek Jeter

First ballot hall of famer...

[Nivek]

Re: Hall of Fame Analysis: Derek Jeter

First ballot hall of famer...

[Kearnzo]

Re: Hall of Fame Analysis: Derek Jeter

Even being a Sox fan, I can say that Jeter should be in the Hall Of Fame. As said before in a perfect comparison, he is the Tom Brady of the Major Leagues. He does very well in the regular season, but during the playoffs, he is the definition of clutch. He is also a natural leader. You can see it in the way he handles himself and his work ethic. Any way you cut it, he will go down as one of the greatest Yankees of all time, just not all on stats. This is why you see guys like A-Rod, who tries to be a leader, he'll follow Jeter around and mimic (sp?) his every move. It just shows that no matter how talented you are, you aren't always a great leader, like what A-Rod is showing (especially with the whole glove slap thing). This just makes you appreciate Jeter all the more. His team just gets behind him, and without him, they don't win ANY of their WS Titles during their run. MAYBE one at most.

[Kearnzo]

Re: Hall of Fame Analysis: Derek Jeter

Even being a Sox fan, I can say that Jeter should be in the Hall Of Fame. As said before in a perfect comparison, he is the Tom Brady of the Major Leagues. He does very well in the regular season, but during the playoffs, he is the definition of clutch. He is also a natural leader. You can see it in the way he handles himself and his work ethic. Any way you cut it, he will go down as one of the greatest Yankees of all time, just not all on stats. This is why you see guys like A-Rod, who tries to be a leader, he'll follow Jeter around and mimic (sp?) his every move. It just shows that no matter how talented you are, you aren't always a great leader, like what A-Rod is showing (especially with the whole glove slap thing). This just makes you appreciate Jeter all the more. His team just gets behind him, and without him, they don't win ANY of their WS Titles during their run. MAYBE one at most.

[BoSox Rule]

Re: Hall of Fame Analysis: Derek Jeter

Mattingly
.314 Avg
1568 Hits
178 HR
826 RBI
5 Gold Gloves
1 MVP

Jeter
.315 Avg
1722 Hits
150 HR
686 RBI
201 SB
1 Gold Glove
ROY
WS MVP

I skimmed through your post, so I am not sure if you mentioned that Mattingly's numbers aren't overly impressive for a 1B, whereas Jeter's are for a SS.

[BoSox Rule]

Re: Hall of Fame Analysis: Derek Jeter

Mattingly
.314 Avg
1568 Hits
178 HR
826 RBI
5 Gold Gloves
1 MVP

Jeter
.315 Avg
1722 Hits
150 HR
686 RBI
201 SB
1 Gold Glove
ROY
WS MVP

I skimmed through your post, so I am not sure if you mentioned that Mattingly's numbers aren't overly impressive for a 1B, whereas Jeter's are for a SS.

[Hootiefish]

Re: Hall of Fame Analysis: Derek Jeter

[QUOTE=BoSox Rule]I skimmed through your post, so I am not sure if you mentioned that Mattingly's numbers aren't overly impressive for a 1B, whereas Jeter's are for a SS.[/QUOTE

Actually, we have to remember that the two are playing in different eras. Mattingly averaging 20 HR and 90 RBI (a couple of injury shortened seasons dropped his numbers) is pretty impressive during a time in which 30-35 HR won the crown. Jeter averaging 16 HR, while very impressive for a shortstop, gets devalued a littled bit simply because of the era he is playing in. At any rate, the post wasn't meant to analyze them statistically so much as it was to look at their respective hold on the public's psyche at similar points in their careers. Mattingly was a NY god after 9 years, just as Jeter is.

[Hootiefish]

Re: Hall of Fame Analysis: Derek Jeter

[QUOTE=BoSox Rule]I skimmed through your post, so I am not sure if you mentioned that Mattingly's numbers aren't overly impressive for a 1B, whereas Jeter's are for a SS.[/QUOTE

Actually, we have to remember that the two are playing in different eras. Mattingly averaging 20 HR and 90 RBI (a couple of injury shortened seasons dropped his numbers) is pretty impressive during a time in which 30-35 HR won the crown. Jeter averaging 16 HR, while very impressive for a shortstop, gets devalued a littled bit simply because of the era he is playing in. At any rate, the post wasn't meant to analyze them statistically so much as it was to look at their respective hold on the public's psyche at similar points in their careers. Mattingly was a NY god after 9 years, just as Jeter is.

[MSRoble33]

Re: Hall of Fame Analysis: Derek Jeter

As much as a Yankee despiser as I am ,I WILL concede that Jeter is one fine ballplayer. I think he's above average SS at best, his hitting is good, but not worth near $20mil/year. BUT the guy has insticts, gives it his all, and his numbers are good enough to reach the Hall. He'll be first ballot ONLY dependant on who else is eligible that year. If it's a thin list, then he's got a shot at 1st ballot. If there's stiff competition, then no. He'll take a couple tries at least.