Proof Point #122

[Thrasha]

Re: Proof Point #122

Yeah just like all those hockey guys are insecure huh? Please if Jeter is supposed to be such a great captain why did he say he wouldnt move from short when the team got a-rod? Because he's insecure and if he plays another position he isnt as valueable

Jeter is an average/hyped up fielder at short

why would he move to a position he had never played before, that would expose his arm even more?

[DGetz]

Re: Proof Point #122

Jeter is an average/hyped up fielder at short

why would he move to a position he had never played before, that would expose his arm even more?

Well Jeter did win a Gold Glove which means something - but A-Rod had two coming in to last year and is a better defensive SS. Basically if Jeter moves from Short (traditionally considered the most important defensive position) it makes him less impressive. Especially if he moves to third because his offensive numbers would not have been that great for a third baseman. I really think it was a case of him being insecure in not wanting to move.

[Alliball]

Re: Proof Point #122

Jeter is an average/hyped up fielder at short

why would he move to a position he had never played before, that would expose his arm even more?

Actually the throw from the hole is the farthest throw on the diamond, so how would moving him to third expose his arm? If anything it may expose his reaction time, but not his arm.

[Thrasha]

Re: Proof Point #122

Well Jeter did win a Gold Glove which means something - but A-Rod had two coming in to last year and is a better defensive SS. Basically if Jeter moves from Short (traditionally considered the most important defensive position) it makes him less impressive. Especially if he moves to third because his offensive numbers would not have been that great for a third baseman. I really think it was a case of him being insecure in not wanting to move.

I think the Gold Glove was handed to Jetes for diving in the stands three feet after catching that ball vs. the Sox

[BigTim]

Re: Proof Point #122

Well Jeter did win a Gold Glove which means something - but A-Rod had two coming in to last year and is a better defensive SS. Basically if Jeter moves from Short (traditionally considered the most important defensive position) it makes him less impressive. Especially if he moves to third because his offensive numbers would not have been that great for a third baseman. I really think it was a case of him being insecure in not wanting to move.

The Gold Glove is a joke award now though.

[Thrasha]

Re: Proof Point #122

Actually the throw from the hole is the farthest throw on the diamond, so how would moving him to third expose his arm? If anything it may expose his reaction time, but not his arm.

I'm not sure on the measurements, and the throw from the hole is probably the farthest, but think of how many times he's actually made that long throw? He's come up with clutch hits, and I'm not trying to throw him on the chopping block, but he's a vastly overrated defender.

[Stu]

Re: Proof Point #122

Rafael Palmeiro won a Gold Glove in '98 when he played 28 games at 1B, showing how much credibility that award has.

It's common knowledge that Jeter is among the worst SS in baseball in regards to his range. For some reason people think he's a good fielder because of his mythical intangibles. I'm still trying to figure out what those are.

[glucklich]

Re: Proof Point #122

The Gold Glove is a joke award now though.

Case in point, Jim Edmonds. Im not saying Edmonds is not good but many of his diving catches would easily be caught by much faster players like Beltran, Jones and even Patterson. Like I said, its not that Edmonds is bad its just hes overrated...hes not the best in the NL.

[Thrasha]

Re: Proof Point #122

Rafael Palmeiro won a Gold Glove in '98 when he played 28 games at 1B, showing how much credibility that award has.

It's common knowledge that Jeter is among the worst SS in baseball in regards to his range. For some reason people think he's a good fielder because of his mythical intangibles. I'm still trying to figure out what those are.

Oh c'mon

He's a winner!!!

He's won!

And look at those eyes?

Did I mention he's a winner?

[dales]

Re: Proof Point #122

Case in point, Jim Edmonds. Im not saying Edmonds is not good but many of his diving catches would easily be caught by much faster players like Beltran, Jones and even Patterson. Like I said, its not that Edmonds is bad its just hes overrated...hes not the best in the NL.

Just because you're fast doens't mean you have great range. Edmonds gets to balls that others wouldn't and, most importantly, cathes them. I agree that he's not the best in the NL, that honor belongs to Andruw Jones.

[Alliball]

Re: Proof Point #122

I'm not sure on the measurements, and the throw from the hole is probably the farthest, but think of how many times he's actually made that long throw? He's come up with clutch hits, and I'm not trying to throw him on the chopping block, but he's a vastly overrated defender.

I think the problem with the SS position is that people expect all SS's to be like Ozzie or Omar. Those guys had a ton of flash with the substace behind it. Ozzie's run of GG was a bit over the top, as was Omar's. Nomar and Alex should have won more than they did, but we saw more of Omar on ESPN than we did of those other two. So that's what the GG voters tend to remember. Let's be honest though, Jeter can make most if not all the plays at the position, but without the flare. Do we consider Cal Ripken an overrated defender just because the man was the master of position defense and not highlite real defense?

[glucklich]

Re: Proof Point #122

Just because you're fast doens't mean you have great range. Edmonds gets to balls that others wouldn't and, most importantly, cathes them. I agree that he's not the best in the NL, that honor belongs to Andruw Jones.

I played CF dude. I know about anticipation/reaction. Visualization worked for me. Still though, I stand by what I said.

[dieselboy]

Re: Proof Point #122

I hate what fans are doing to the game...

[dales]

Re: Proof Point #122

I played CF dude. I know about anticipation/reaction. Visualization worked for me. Still though, I stand by what I said.

I played CF as well.

I just disagree that Edmonds is overrated.

[DGetz]

Re: Proof Point #122

The Gold Glove is a joke award now though.

I wouldn't say it's a joke - I think it would be hard to win one were you God awful or something...I mean Piazza is never going to win one for example.

But the reality is people vote for it mostly based on reputation and that's part of why some people win it all the time....also prorobly why Palmeiro won the award playing somelike 25 games at first one year.

Like I said I dont think Jeter is a terrible shortstop b any means, but I think he is a bit above average at best.

That being said just a couple stats: last year the avg fielding % for SS was .972; Jeter was .981 - the average Range Factor per 9 was 4.12 and Jeter's was 4.32. Obviously stats dont tell the whole story but I think it'd hard to look at that and say he had a bad year in the field last year

EDIT: saw the above post saying Raffy had 28 games, interesting...