Why are people complaining about Petco Park's dimensions?

**glucklich** · 04-29-2005, 12:43 AM

Re: Why are people complaining about Petco Park's dimensions?

People should be complaining about Minute Maid. What a joke that place is.

**Stu** · 04-29-2005, 12:52 AM

Re: Why are people complaining about Petco Park's dimensions?

It isn't the biggest dimension wise but it is still one of the most difficult places to hit. Last year Petco ranked 27th in runs scored and dead last in HR's. So far this year it ranks 24th in runs scored and 26th in HR's. The numbers show pretty clearly that Petco is a pitchers park, and arguably the most difficult park in MLB to hit a HR.

Park Factors

**Blzer** · 04-29-2005, 12:53 AM

Re: Why are people complaining about Petco Park's dimensions?

Minute Maid's crawford boxes are really the only problem. Everything else is like most standard ballparks at this time, and then some. Remember, their center field is 435 feet away from home plate, and their deep left-center field is 404 or something like that, WITH a pretty high wall to hit it over. However, the ball carries well there, especially with the roof closed.

The only fields that I think are fields to REALLY complain about size are Citizens Bank, Fenway (everywhere except right field, where it's 380 feet almost right down the line [302 right down the line, but right after that it's VERY hard]), US Cellular (ball carries well there for a standard ballpark size), and Great American Ballpark.

**Blzer** · 04-29-2005, 12:57 AM

Re: Why are people complaining about Petco Park's dimensions?

Originally posted by camulos

It isn't the biggest dimension wise but it is still one of the most difficult places to hit. Last year Petco ranked 27th in runs scored and dead last in HR's. So far this year it ranks 24th in runs scored and 26th in HR's. The numbers show pretty clearly that Petco is a pitchers park, and arguably the most difficult park in MLB to hit a HR.

Park Factors

I've seen the park factors page, and it's not necessarily my favorite. I would gladly like to see the HR/G stat, and the splits (lefties/righties, etc).

Also, like I said, the Padres obviously don't have any big power threats, these guys are built for smaller parks. The Giants do, they have Bonds... without him, the Giants are most definitely dead-last in these factors (and you will see that this year, up until he returns).

It is possibly one of the most difficult parks to hit a home run in, but it is not the most difficult... even if it was, it's not the biggest by such a large margin that this is the only park that Baseball Tonight feel that they need to talk about. SBC Park only produces home runs by righties, where they have slightly larger dimensions than Petco Park in the left-field area anyway. Home runs by lefties are very uncommon at SBC, regardless of how short you think that 309 really is.

**DGetz** · 04-29-2005, 01:03 AM

Re: Why are people complaining about Petco Park's dimensions?

I don't know about that. First off Qualcomm wasn't big but it had massive amounts of foul territory, helping pitchers out.

Statistically Qualcomm was a pitcher's park the last few years it was open

As for Klesko, in 2003 he hit .242 at Qualcomm, .326 on the road, so I doubt he was sad to see the team move. This season he is over .300 at Petco and .240 on the road, so I doubt that is psyching him out either.

Mark Loretta is .344 at home, .208 on the road.

Aside of that I think there's a good bit of evidence to show that opposing teams hit poorly there too:

"The second-worst place to score runs this year has been Petco Park in San Diego, which has cut run scoring by 16.9% in its very first year. Before a single game had been played there, people were complaining about the power alleys and the way the ball carried. To their credit, the complainers were right on the money, as Petco Park has decreased homers by 30.4%."

Brief Anaylsis of Qualcomm I found here:

"Who benefits: Pitchers, almost without exception but especially those who induce flyballs. The ballpark also favors right-handed hitters, because in 1996 a 17.5-foot wall was erected in right.

Power pitchers gain an edge due to the park's poor visibility. Bobby Jones had a 4.20 ERA at home and 6.11 ERA on the road; Kevin Jarvis had a home ERA more than a run better than his road ERA. The two non-power ptichers in the Padres rotation - Brian Tollberg and Brian Lawrence - did better on the road; Lawrence was 5-1 on the road, with a 2.78 ERA, but 0-4 at home with a 4.07 ERA, while Tollberg posted roughly even home-road numbers.

Who gets hurt: Hitters, basically. Left-handed power hitters seem to have more trouble than righties in reaching the fences. Ryan Klesko, for instance hit .242 at home and .326 on the road, though he split his 30 HR evenly between home and road games. Phil Nevin and Mark Kotsay were the only regulars who didn't post significantly negative home-road splits: Klesko, Rickey Henderson, Ray Lankford, D'Angelo Jimenez, Mike Darr, Ben Davis and Wiki Gonzalez all hit worse at home than on the road."

Links:

404 Not Found

http://www.baseball-statistics.com/Ballparks/SD/index.htm

404 Not Found

http://www.baseball-statistics.com/Ballparks/

Park Factoring

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/park-factoring/

From the hitter’s haven in Colorado to a couple of pitcher’s paradises on the West Coast, Aaron takes a look at how the ballparks around baseball have played this year.

With regards to those other parks: What power hitting lefties do the Giants have other than Bonds? Who is going to complain? And at Comerica - man all I heard was Juan Gonzalez saying how he wanted to get out of Detroit cause that LF wall was so far away.

So what do I draw out of this: Petco is most definetly a strong pitcher's park, but so was Qualcomm, so I don't think players are getting all psyched out. The numbers hold true for Padres pitchers (Peavy allowed 9 Hrs on the road, 4 at home; Lawrence 9 at home, 17 on the road), so I dont think its that the whole MLB had been duped. At the same time, I had the same reaction as you when I look at the dimensions for the park: it isnt THAT big, but for whatever reason people dont hit well there. Partly because the fences but theres probobly other considerations as well, for example how is the background for the hitters?

**DGetz** · 04-29-2005, 01:08 AM

Re: Why are people complaining about Petco Park's dimensions?

Also part of the deal with Petco is it's shape. Since it's a straight line across center a bit to the right or left is deeper than straigh-away center

Shape: http://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/petcoseat.gif

Also I have a question - why did you do the dimensions for Petco right to left and the others left to right?

**Blzer** · 04-29-2005, 01:15 AM

Re: Why are people complaining about Petco Park's dimensions?

I don't know why I did.

HOWEVER, did you ever realize that Comerica Park and SBC Park are straight across in center field also?

The ONLY place that I see may be a problem in Petco Park is in right field, a little bit left to the line when it goes STRAIGHT back for that one part. Otherwise, I don't quite see where else it's worth complaining 10x more than any other ballpark.

And Gonzalez's case doesn't hold water. He was a steroid user... that's his reason he can't hit a ball out of Comerica or any other park.

As for Klesko's average raising, I guess he figured that he wouldn't try fighting the park, and he'd start swinging 85% there rather than 100%. For road games, he would continue to swing 100%.

Besides, I remember watching a Padres game last year where some Marlins pitcher hit it out like it was nothing (LOL). Not sure who it was, I believe a Marlins fan would remember.

Case in point, it IS a tough ballpark to hit one out, but they are overexaggerating the distances (and the difficulty).

**Misfit** · 04-29-2005, 09:32 AM

Re: Why are people complaining about Petco Park's dimensions?

Balls carry differently in different ballparks at different times of year. Two ballparks could have the same dimensions and be located in two different locations but one could be easier to hit a homerun at than the other. Coors field is not a small ballpark but because of the air there it is easier to hit a homerun. Petco is fairly close to the seacoast, right? I honestly do not know. It's the seabreeze that makes it really tough on left-handers at SBC to hit it out because the wind knocks everything down hit to right field. How many different players have actually reached the water? Three? Four? It is something small. The ball just may not carry well at Petco, making it tougher to hit a homerun there. Comerica Park did have it's complaints when it opened. Maybe they weren't as public as the Petco ones (which could be because the Padres are a competetive team and Detroit was not at the time) but there was a reason why the left field wall was moved in closer.

Fenway really isn't a huge offensive ballpark. It becomes an advantage to the Red Sox when they build their team around the ballpark, which they have done the past two years, to take advantage of the park. As Blzer noted, it isn't easy to hit one out to right field unless you go right down the line to Pesky's Pole. And don't listen to the ESPN announcers whenever they do a game at Fenway and talk about how great Ortiz is at going the other way at Fenway. I think he hit, postseason included, three or four homeruns over the wall in left field. Most of his homeruns are to right and he doesn't cheat as they are consistently launched over the bullpens. Most of the homeruns to left would be homeruns anywhere, especially in April and May when the wind is always blowing in fiercely, with some exceptions (Renteria had one this year that just sneaked over the wall and I can recall one Pokey had last year). Fenway's advantage is turning warning track flyball outs into doubles. It also takes away though, as there are numerous balls hit every season that do not get over the wall but would have been homeruns in any other ballpark. It's not a pitcher's park, but its no where near the offensive ballpark that is Minute Maid or Citizen's Bank.

**glucklich** · 04-29-2005, 09:42 AM

Re: Why are people complaining about Petco Park's dimensions?

Originally posted by Misfit

Balls carry differently in different ballparks at different times of year. Two ballparks could have the same dimensions and be located in two different locations but one could be easier to hit a homerun at than the other. Coors field is not a small ballpark but because of the air there it is easier to hit a homerun. Petco is fairly close to the seacoast, right? I honestly do not know. It's the seabreeze that makes it really tough on left-handers at SBC to hit it out because the wind knocks everything down hit to right field. How many different players have actually reached the water? Three? Four? It is something small. The ball just may not carry well at Petco, making it tougher to hit a homerun there. Comerica Park did have it's complaints when it opened. Maybe they weren't as public as the Petco ones (which could be because the Padres are a competetive team and Detroit was not at the time) but there was a reason why the left field wall was moved in closer.

Fenway really isn't a huge offensive ballpark. It becomes an advantage to the Red Sox when they build their team around the ballpark, which they have done the past two years, to take advantage of the park. As Blzer noted, it isn't easy to hit one out to right field unless you go right down the line to Pesky's Pole. And don't listen to the ESPN announcers whenever they do a game at Fenway and talk about how great Ortiz is at going the other way at Fenway. I think he hit, postseason included, three or four homeruns over the wall in left field. Most of his homeruns are to right and he doesn't cheat as they are consistently launched over the bullpens. Most of the homeruns to left would be homeruns anywhere, especially in April and May when the wind is always blowing in fiercely, with some exceptions (Renteria had one this year that just sneaked over the wall and I can recall one Pokey had last year). Fenway's advantage is turning warning track flyball outs into doubles. It also takes away though, as there are numerous balls hit every season that do not get over the wall but would have been homeruns in any other ballpark. It's not a pitcher's park, but its no where near the offensive ballpark that is Minute Maid or Citizen's Bank.

That used to be the case with the Red Sox and it was also one of the reasons they had a problem getting past the Yankees. Now they have balance from both sides of that plate. Yeah, they do well in Fenway, but I wouldnt say the team is built around Fenway per se. The Cubs fit that mold moreso than the Red Sox.

Heres the thing with Fenway. Because its so asymmetrical, the beauty of it is you can pitch ot the RF side of the plate to try and make the guy hit it that way...and if he does its more forgiving because of the spacious RF. Minutemaid on the other hand makes it way too easy to hit HRs in RF and LF both.

**Stu** · 04-29-2005, 10:09 AM

Re: Why are people complaining about Petco Park's dimensions?

Originally posted by Misfit

And don't listen to the ESPN announcers whenever they do a game at Fenway and talk about how great Ortiz is at going the other way at Fenway. I think he hit, postseason included, three or four homeruns over the wall in left field. Most of his homeruns are to right and he doesn't cheat as they are consistently launched over the bullpens.

I agree on Ortiz. His ability to hit the opposite way is overstated simply because 2 of his HR's were high profile. The walk off HR to win the ALDS vs Anaheim and the solo HR vs the Yankees in Game 5 to pull within 1 run. There's a reason teams do an extreme shift against him.

Fenway definitely keeps some balls in the park that would be HR's elsewhere. In their last game against the Orioles, Manny hit a laserbeam to left that barely cleared the wall. It would've been an easy HR anywhere else but inFenway was almost a single. When balls are hit that hard off the monster it's very difficult to stretch them into a double.

Another interesting thing about Fenway is how different the ball carries in April vs mid-summer. I don't really know anything about the wind patterns a at Petco but I would assume they have a big effect on how the ball carries.

**DGetz** · 04-29-2005, 10:43 AM

Re: Why are people complaining about Petco Park's dimensions?

Originally posted by Blzer

I don't know why I did.

HOWEVER, did you ever realize that Comerica Park and SBC Park are straight across in center field also?

The ONLY place that I see may be a problem in Petco Park is in right field, a little bit left to the line when it goes STRAIGHT back for that one part. Otherwise, I don't quite see where else it's worth complaining 10x more than any other ballpark.

And Gonzalez's case doesn't hold water. He was a steroid user... that's his reason he can't hit a ball out of Comerica or any other park.

Hmm... I didnt know that about the other parks, that's interesting. Personally I like that design so hey, that's cool. But I digress

But back to Gonzo. Regardless of whether he was a steroid user he still complained about that park, <i>a lot</i>, I dont know about other players though. He may have less power now but his HR/AB number were:

14.4 (year before playing in Detroit)
20.9 (Year for for Detroit)
15.2 (year after)

In my opinion it seems Detroit would the best pitcher's park because it's so deep the power ally for righties and because it's so cold there a lot of time (gettin snowed out in late April? Cmon!) making it more difficult for the hitters.

**SPTO** · 04-29-2005, 03:53 PM

Re: Why are people complaining about Petco Park's dimensions?

This may seem like nothing but when Petco first opened I heard that the wind patterns in that area of San Diego was far different from where Qualcomm was. I've heard that the wind tends to keep balls in the park early in the year and that by summer time more HRs are hit. Obviously it isn't a lot but that's one reason that i've heard.

**SportsTop** · 04-29-2005, 05:21 PM

Re: Why are people complaining about Petco Park's dimensions?

Originally posted by Misfit

Balls carry differently in different ballparks at different times of year. Two ballparks could have the same dimensions and be located in two different locations but one could be easier to hit a homerun at than the other. Coors field is not a small ballpark but because of the air there it is easier to hit a homerun. Petco is fairly close to the seacoast, right? I honestly do not know. It's the seabreeze that makes it really tough on left-handers at SBC to hit it out because the wind knocks everything down hit to right field. How many different players have actually reached the water? Three? Four? It is something small. The ball just may not carry well at Petco, making it tougher to hit a homerun there. Comerica Park did have it's complaints when it opened. Maybe they weren't as public as the Petco ones (which could be because the Padres are a competetive team and Detroit was not at the time) but there was a reason why the left field wall was moved in closer..

Thank you Misfit. At least someone in here has some common sense when it comes to this type of thing.

This question is like asking why balls fly out of Coors Field so easy when it's dimensions are no different then (insert stadium here).

It is called atmospheric science.

And Qualcomm (Jack Murphy) Stadium always was a pitcher's park. And it wasn't just because of the foul territory.

**BatsareBugs** · 04-29-2005, 07:19 PM

Re: Why are people complaining about Petco Park's dimensions?

Don't be fooled by Petco's LCF/RCF listed dimensions, they shoot to 402 and 411 (respectively). Although there should be no excuse because they should be taking advantage of that. This ballpark really favors righties more because it's shorter than right field (with that porch sticking, if not for that it'd look even bigger). Not to mention the winds are pretty much dead at night or in favor of the pitcher.

As for Petco and Qualcomm, the Q itself was pitcher's park, even when they added the wall.

And as for Klesko, there's a few things one can assume for you bringing him up, was it the Yahoo article on him a few months ago "bashing" the park... I hope you know they used recycled quotes from last year, the guy had 407 foot bomb to center in the first homestand... and last year he couldn't even lift a bat heavier than 31 ounces. Klesko ain't the guy you're looking for if you want to see someone affected by Petco, you'd have to look at Nevin and Giles, since both weren't bothered by recovering from a shoulder injury.

Petco Park is huge... but there's no reason why you can't be successful in it.

Why are people complaining about Petco Park's dimensions?

Recommended Videos

Why are people complaining about Petco Park's dimensions?

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment