2008 Cincinnati Reds

[PhantomPain]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

SlimKibbles, that is a great article and explains how I feel as well as I am sure countless others. Although not just about Griffey, the Reds and baseball as a whole as well. The Reds get me excited every year (although it isn't the Reds as much as it is just me being a lifelong baseball fan) and then always cause me to be disappointed in them.

Between the Reds always sucking, the steroid issues in baseball, and even going back to the 1994 strike...baseball is losing me as a fan more and more every year. The sport is not what I grew up loving and it is just really disturbing to me.

I truly hope that something happens in the next few years to regain my interest. I want to LOVE the sport again but they aren't making it easy.

[HustlinOwl]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

Free agents, 13 of them

Much has been made about the fact that Ken Griffey Jr. and Adam Dunn are free agents after the season. In Griffey's case, the Reds hold an option. But they can let him go with a $4 million parting gift.

But 11 other players on the current 25-man roster are free agents as well. That's the most in baseball. Here's the list:

David Ross
Javy Valentin
Paul Bako
Scott Hatteberg
Jerry Hairston Jr.
Corey Patterson
David Weathers
Jeremy Affeldt
Kent Mercker
Mike Lincoln
Josh Fogg

Ross also has an option -- for $3.5 million.

Walt Jocketty is going to have a chance to makeover the roster. Those 13 players accounted for $43 million of the $74.1 million payroll.

But the veterans under contract for next year all get good raises, so the Reds are on the hook for $46.5 million for six players:

Bronson Arroyo $9.5 million
Francisco Cordero $12 million
Aaron Harang $11 million
Brandon Phillips $4.75 million
Ryan Freel $4 million
Alex Gonzalez $5.375 million

I hate to write about money and contracts, but this all affects what the Reds can and cannot do.

Hopefully, this post will change the current debate, which I'm not entirely sure is about.

Already looking forward to next year

[sportsdude]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

lol at Freel making $4 mil and Phillips making $4.75.

Out of those free agents, the ones I would consider keeping are Mercker, Affeldt, Weathers and Lincoln and even then that depends on what they do this season. Perhaps Bako too, despite his good offensive start to the season he really is a liability in the lineup. Ditch Valentin and Ross I say. Valentin's best use is as a pinch hitter and we'd have to pay more than he's worth to keep him. Without that power surge a few years ago, Ross has basically done nothing.

[ELDoro]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

I'm fine with Freel and Phillips making 4 and 4.75mill. Thats exactly where they should be. I would not want to resign Mercker and only Weathers if he is very cheap. I know there is much love for Weathers but I really don't appreciate him as a setup man. Hes not the type of reliever that should be brought in to get out of jams with his lack of "stuff". I like Mercker but hes at the end of his career as well.

I'm all for keeping Affeld and Lincoln too

I'm really confused as to why you think Bako is a liability? Most catchers around the league arn't offensive players and if he can continue offensively even at a fraction of what hes been doing I'm happy with that. I for sure agree with you on Valentin and Ross. I do like Valentin in the pinch hitter role but his lack to play any defensive position limits what you can do with your roster.

I think Jocketty is in great position to totally rebuild this team in a short time frame (next year). Hes got all the center pieces in place (Harang, Volquez, Votto, Bruce) along with some maybes such as Cueto and Bailey. Hes also got a few role players that I believe if set up to do so can succeed such as Keppinger and Freel(if used correctly). I'm also liking Hairston more than I origionally thought I would. I don't think hes an everyday player but like him in the utility role as well as spot starting.

[PhantomPain]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

I'm fine with Freel and Phillips making 4 and 4.75mill. Thats exactly where they should be. I would not want to resign Mercker and only Weathers if he is very cheap. I know there is much love for Weathers but I really don't appreciate him as a setup man. Hes not the type of reliever that should be brought in to get out of jams with his lack of "stuff". I like Mercker but hes at the end of his career as well.

I'm all for keeping Affeld and Lincoln too

I'm really confused as to why you think Bako is a liability? Most catchers around the league arn't offensive players and if he can continue offensively even at a fraction of what hes been doing I'm happy with that. I for sure agree with you on Valentin and Ross. I do like Valentin in the pinch hitter role but his lack to play any defensive position limits what you can do with your roster.

I think Jocketty is in great position to totally rebuild this team in a short time frame (next year). Hes got all the center pieces in place (Harang, Volquez, Votto, Bruce) along with some maybes such as Cueto and Bailey. Hes also got a few role players that I believe if set up to do so can succeed such as Keppinger and Freel(if used correctly). I'm also liking Hairston more than I origionally thought I would. I don't think hes an everyday player but like him in the utility role as well as spot starting.

I am as much of a Freel fan as anyone, but it is pretty laughable that a utility role player that isn't starting every game of the season is making nearly as much as one of the best 2nd basemen in the league.

Also I would contend that you can throw Bailey and Cueto in that "center piece" category. Just because Cueto hasn't been lights out every game, does not make him a bust. In fact his last outing was a definite improvement and we will see how he does today. But he is still young and has the stuff to make a great career. Same as Bailey. They are both just young players that have a world of talent and I think you HAVE to keep them if you rebuild. Also the other player I would throw into the "center piece" category is Keppinger. He has done absolutely nothing but rake since he was called up last year. The kid can hit as good as anyone on the team if not better and he is a hard nosed player. Have to keep him as well.

Players I would like to see kept:

Keppinger, Phillips, Encarnacion, Votto, Bako, Hopper/Freel (either one), Burton, Lincoln, Affeldt, Cordero, Harang, Cueto and Volquez. That's 13 players. Get 10 new ones and call up Bailey and Bruce.

[sportsdude]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

I am as much of a Freel fan as anyone, but it is pretty laughable that a utility role player that isn't starting every game of the season is making nearly as much as one of the best 2nd basemen in the league.

Also I would contend that you can throw Bailey and Cueto in that "center piece" category. Just because Cueto hasn't been lights out every game, does not make him a bust. In fact his last outing was a definite improvement and we will see how he does today. But he is still young and has the stuff to make a great career. Same as Bailey. They are both just young players that have a world of talent and I think you HAVE to keep them if you rebuild. Also the other player I would throw into the "center piece" category is Keppinger. He has done absolutely nothing but rake since he was called up last year. The kid can hit as good as anyone on the team if not better and he is a hard nosed player. Have to keep him as well.

Players I would like to see kept:

Keppinger, Phillips, Encarnacion, Votto, Bako, Hopper/Freel (either one), Burton, Lincoln, Affeldt, Cordero, Harang, Cueto and Volquez. That's 13 players. Get 10 new ones and call up Bailey and Bruce.

10 new players? Seems excessive. I say keep Bray up and try to get Weathers to re-sign. I hope one of those remaining 8 slots would be filled by a player we get in return for trading Adam Dunn later this summer, leaving 7 spots to fill. That sounds a bit more reasonable to me.

[SlimKibbles]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

What a surprise...a lefty (Oliver Perez) is mowing the Reds down this afternoon. 3-0 at the moment. Perez has 8 K's through 5 innings.

[PhantomPain]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

10 new players? Seems excessive. I say keep Bray up and try to get Weathers to re-sign. I hope one of those remaining 8 slots would be filled by a player we get in return for trading Adam Dunn later this summer, leaving 7 spots to fill. That sounds a bit more reasonable to me.

Yeah I might keep Bray as well, but I think Weathers goes too. I seriously think this team needs a MAJOR overhaul. And if you keep the players I mentioned, then yeah I can see getting rid of every single one of the rest of them except maybe Bray (as I do like him).

[HustlinOwl]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

The Reds batted out of order in the ninth. David Ross went up and hit in the eighth spot. He made an out. Mets manager Willie Randolph pointed it out to the umpires. That led to a 12-minute delay while they sorted things out. Corey Patterson, who actually in the eighth spot, was credited with an out. Ross went back up and singled.

"It's my fault," Dusty Baker said. "It was on the board with Patterson first and on my card, but I didn't check it."

WTF how does that happen in the MLB

[HustlinOwl]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

Some great reading material

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20080511/SPT04/805110428/&GID=NRbn66nyp//FHpRznmvJ96xMxxX0Ekn0JSXOYVJ810g%3D

[PhantomPain]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

WTF how does that happen in the MLB

Dusty Baker and the Reds in general never cease to amaze me. I am so happy we have him.

In all honesty, I knew going into the season that there were some question marks regarding Baker's philosophy, but I never imagined that I would see and read about so many off the wall things. What next, "I didn't realize we left Votto in Chicago until we got to our next game and he wasn't there"? Seriously dude, how are you in baseball that long and be that dumb....about so many things?

[PhantomPain]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

Some great reading material

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.d...JSXOYVJ810g%3D

Very interesting...to say the least.

[SlimKibbles]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

Some great reading material

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.d...JSXOYVJ810g%3D

That is a good read. The one stat that jumped out at me, besides the ridiculous lack of run-support Harang has been getting, was the guys left on base by the '76 Reds. They still scored the 2nd most runs ever despite that stat. Imagine how much more dominating they would have been had they not left as many guys on base that season. I wish I could have seen that team play. I wasn't born until a couple of weeks after they swept the Yankees in the WS.

[sportsdude]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

WTF how does that happen in the MLB

oh man is this for real? first he doesn't want OBP guys because he doesn't want them to clog up the bases and now he sends up the wrong batter? If the Reds do one good thing this season I want it to be the firing of Dusty Baker.

[jake44np]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

oh man is this for real? first he doesn't want OBP guys because he doesn't want them to clog up the bases and now he sends up the wrong batter? If the Reds do one good thing this season I want it to be the firing of Dusty Baker.

There is absolutely no way on Gods green earth the Reds are going to fire Dusty this year. He was just brought in, he has managed what like 40 games!!!??? They are not going to fire a manager that is 40 games into a 4 year 12 million dollar deal! Sorry that I am ranting here but I am just getting tired of everybody saying "lets fire Dusty, I hate Dusty". Its just stupid talk and there is no way it is going to happen.