St. Joe's refuses to release Todd O'Brien

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  • Koolie G
    MVP
    • Mar 2005
    • 1812

    #1

    St. Joe's refuses to release Todd O'Brien

    Seems petty to me. I don't know Martelli's side, but I don't think there is a whole lot of defense to this. The NCAA is a joke. Phil Martelli looks like he's a slimeball if this story is true and anybody recruiting against St. Joes just got a nice present in their Christmas stocking of recruiting pitches.

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  • IlliniM1ke
    Heroes Never Die
    • Feb 2003
    • 8082

    #2
    Re: St. Joe's refuses to release Todd O'Brien

    It does seem incredibly petty, obviously this is only one side of the story but even if he did something to wrong them it would seem like Martelli would just let him go so you don't have this kind of negative publicity surrounding your program.
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    • SlimKibbles
      Supporter
      • Apr 2004
      • 7276

      #3
      Re: St. Joe's refuses to release Todd O'Brien

      It is rather petty but I've also seen people comment on what is likely where Martelli is coming from. These are from fellow posters at XavierHoops, a board which I belong to. I don't know how much truth there is to any of it but if it is all true, I can't blame Martelli for being ticked. Still, he only makes himself look petty by blocking this kid from playing at UAB.

      GoMuskies:Here is a summary of the "St. Joe's side" from a thread on a different board (after linking to an article discussing his suspension from the Xavier game last year as part of an incident where some laptops were stolen:

      "Hmmm... the plot thickens. So this kid transfers in from another school, gets his minutes cut in his second season with St Joes after a laptop stealing incident, then waits until after he's taken the summer credits he needed to graduate on the scholarship's dime... to tell the coach who went to bat for him that he's leaving him in the lurch with no chance to replace him before the coming season... I can see why Martelli would be steamed.
      THWND: Allegedly, he was caught smoking weed in a dorm room as well, however, I can not confirm this. O'Brien spent 3 years on scholarship. He helped run an SJU summer camp, then decided to transfer in late July... after he had completed the classes required for graduating....It's a shame that ESPN and si.com only report what viewers want to see, covering the fight from the crosstown shootout more than an other shootouts combined. Martelli went to bat for this kid who took the $ (or laptops in this case) and ran. If I were Martelli, I would do the same thing.
      I was initially shocked that Martelli would do something like this until I read these posts. I like Phil Martelli. He's a great coach and has a great sense of humor. Unfortunately this O'Brien kid is winning the P.R. battle at this point.
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      • Koolie G
        MVP
        • Mar 2005
        • 1812

        #4
        Re: St. Joe's refuses to release Todd O'Brien

        I understand why Martelli might not want to help the kid if the above is true, but you still have to release him.

        His family has offered to pay for the summer classes he took. That is not the problem though and neither is the stolen laptop or smoking weed issue. The issue is Martelli is mad because the kid wanted to transfer after St. Joes couldn't get anyone to fill his spot. That sucks, but it's not like it's an issue that is new to any school. People transfer during the middle of the season, that seems worse than after summer school. Kids transfer, schools don't renew scholly's, kids get screwed over, schools get screwed over. It happens everywhere.

        St. Joe's just needs to let the kid play. They are taking a huge PR hit, even if they are 100% right. They just aren't going to convince the majority of the people that this isn't just vindictive and petty. I'd be interested to hear the reason St. Joe's says they will not release him. There is NO reason they can give that will justify a non-release in the eyes of the general public. No reason.
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        • SlimKibbles
          Supporter
          • Apr 2004
          • 7276

          #5
          Re: St. Joe's refuses to release Todd O'Brien

          Originally posted by Koolie G
          I understand why Martelli might not want to help the kid if the above is true, but you still have to release him.

          His family has offered to pay for the summer classes he took. That is not the problem though and neither is the stolen laptop or smoking weed issue. The issue is Martelli is mad because the kid wanted to transfer after St. Joes couldn't get anyone to fill his spot. That sucks, but it's not like it's an issue that is new to any school. People transfer during the middle of the season, that seems worse than after summer school. Kids transfer, schools don't renew scholly's, kids get screwed over, schools get screwed over. It happens everywhere.

          St. Joe's just needs to let the kid play. They are taking a huge PR hit, even if they are 100% right. They just aren't going to convince the majority of the people that this isn't just vindictive and petty. I'd be interested to hear the reason St. Joe's says they will not release him. There is NO reason they can give that will justify a non-release in the eyes of the general public. No reason.
          Do we really know that though? The timing of the whole thing makes it a possibility but we don't know that for sure. I agree though. Just let the kid play. It's better in the long-run for everybody involved. If Martelli is making a point about how he feels wronged by all he, and the school, did for O'Brien during good times and bad, I can understand that. But, you're better off releasing him and letting him play. Schools recruiting for the same guys as St. Joe's will certainly bring this up in any pitch to the recruit: "Hey, if you go to St. Joe's, you might not have the option of transferring because the coach may not release you from your scholarship."
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          • SlimKibbles
            Supporter
            • Apr 2004
            • 7276

            #6
            Re: St. Joe's refuses to release Todd O'Brien

            From another poster on XH. Interesting read.

            http://www.examiner.com/saint-joseph...o-todd-o-brien

            Really what it boils down, and the national sports media for whatever reason (*drama*) refuses to point this out, is Martelli really has nothing to do with it. The NCAA actually refused O'Brien's waiver because he had already transferred once from Bucknell to St. Joe's. You can't use the waiver and transfer to a third school and become immediately eligible. It's a rule. So, what a shocker, the sports media goes nuts over a story that presents only one side and doesn't contain all of the facts. Maybe they all needed a new outlet because their continued ridiculous bashing of Xavier over that brawl had grown tiresome to them.
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            • jake44np
              Post Like a Champion!
              • Jul 2002
              • 9563

              #7
              Re: St. Joe's refuses to release Todd O'Brien

              I watched a special last night on this and St Joe's and Martelli are getting alot of bad pub from this for no reason.
              The kid is a trouble maker and the NCAA not St Joe's is the one not letting him trasfer again. Its amazing what the media reports these days. I long for the days when the media stayed out of things like this. Lets not post all the facts to make the story more interesting and therefore we will sell more copies or get more hits on our website!??! I would look into sueing if i was Martelli.
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              • Koolie G
                MVP
                • Mar 2005
                • 1812

                #8
                Re: St. Joe's refuses to release Todd O'Brien

                I thought in the original piece the kid had confirmed that he would be allowed by the NCAA to transfer and the reason he couldn't because was because St. Joes didn't sign off on it. Even if the NCAA said no, to say St. Joes has nothing to do with it is just short-sided. St. Joes wouldn't release him, so if the NCAA had given the OK, he still couldn't play.

                Kinda off topic but, I am totally fed up with the NCAA. They are a complete joke. They are so inconsistent it's not even funny. Southern Cal's penalties compared to Ohio State's? Are you kidding me? Not letting foriegn players play, ruling kids ineligible for the craziest things. I wish someone would make a list of all the kids that have been denied transfers, eligibility, the coaches that have been sanctioned, and the schools put on probation and then compare them all and see if any of them got equal treatment. It's all on a whim. "If the NCAA were a man I'd punch it in the face."--JT
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                • jake44np
                  Post Like a Champion!
                  • Jul 2002
                  • 9563

                  #9
                  Re: St. Joe's refuses to release Todd O'Brien

                  Originally posted by Koolie G
                  I thought in the original piece the kid had confirmed that he would be allowed by the NCAA to transfer and the reason he couldn't because was because St. Joes didn't sign off on it. Even if the NCAA said no, to say St. Joes has nothing to do with it is just short-sided. St. Joes wouldn't release him, so if the NCAA had given the OK, he still couldn't play.

                  Kinda off topic but, I am totally fed up with the NCAA. They are a complete joke. They are so inconsistent it's not even funny. Southern Cal's penalties compared to Ohio State's? Are you kidding me? Not letting foriegn players play, ruling kids ineligible for the craziest things. I wish someone would make a list of all the kids that have been denied transfers, eligibility, the coaches that have been sanctioned, and the schools put on probation and then compare them all and see if any of them got equal treatment. It's all on a whim. "If the NCAA were a man I'd punch it in the face."--JT

                  The original piece you read was wrong then. The true story is coming out now and this is all on the kid not St Joe's or their coach.
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                  • Koolie G
                    MVP
                    • Mar 2005
                    • 1812

                    #10
                    Re: St. Joe's refuses to release Todd O'Brien

                    Originally posted by jake44np
                    The original piece you read was wrong then. The true story is coming out now and this is all on the kid not St Joe's or their coach.
                    I see. Well, that does not change my mind on the NCAA being awful and it I also think St. Joes should still release the kid. It's just not a good look to refuse to release a kid.
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                    • SlimKibbles
                      Supporter
                      • Apr 2004
                      • 7276

                      #11
                      Re: St. Joe's refuses to release Todd O'Brien

                      Originally posted by Koolie G
                      ...Kinda off topic but, I am totally fed up with the NCAA. They are a complete joke. They are so inconsistent it's not even funny. Southern Cal's penalties compared to Ohio State's? Are you kidding me? Not letting foriegn players play, ruling kids ineligible for the craziest things. I wish someone would make a list of all the kids that have been denied transfers, eligibility, the coaches that have been sanctioned, and the schools put on probation and then compare them all and see if any of them got equal treatment. It's all on a whim. "If the NCAA were a man I'd punch it in the face."--JT
                      QFT. I'm with you on this one. It needs to be fixed. I have no idea how that process will ever start. Gradually over time? Maybe when the 20-30 something's are running things?
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                      • Koolie G
                        MVP
                        • Mar 2005
                        • 1812

                        #12
                        Re: St. Joe's refuses to release Todd O'Brien

                        This story seems to say the reason the NCAA is denying O'Brien is because St. Joes won't release him. If the kid did something crazy and you don't want to release him, then tell the media what it is. I don't think there is anything St. Joes could say to make me think they should denying him a transfer.

                        So what if he left early, so what if he stole a laptop, so what if he was a troublemaker, so what if he took free grad classes? If he was charged with a crime then let the authorities deal with it. If he left you in a bad place with your team...get over it. It happens AT EVERY SCHOOL. If he was a troublemaker then you should be glad he wanted to leave. Who cares if he took advantage of the free school? You are there to help provide an education and he took classes. Plus he even offered to pay for those he took that St. Joes seems to be upset about.

                        I don't think the kid should screw over the school by leaving or going back on his word, but in the end St. Joes isn't gaining anything by refusing to grant him his transfer. St. Joes needs to just come out and say what the deal is. All this troublemaker stuff, even if true, is not a reason to deny transfer. IMO.

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                        • SlimKibbles
                          Supporter
                          • Apr 2004
                          • 7276

                          #13
                          Re: St. Joe's refuses to release Todd O'Brien

                          I'll post this link again: http://www.examiner.com/saint-joseph...o-todd-o-brien

                          From the article:
                          ...One important fact that seems to have been glossed over in wake of yesterday's revelations by O'Brien is the fact that a five-member committee from the NCAA also denied O'Brien's waiver and while O'Brien stated it was only because Saint Joseph's refused to sign off on it, the reason actually appears to be because the NCAA is following its own rules. Among the conditions for a graduate student waiver from the NCAA is this: "The student-athlete may not have transferred previously from another four-year institution unless he or she transferred previously and received an exception to the transfer residence requirement because his or her institution either discontinued the sport or did not sponsor the sport in which the student-athlete is a participant." O'Brien transferred from Bucknell after one season to play at Saint Joseph's and it had nothing to do with the Patriot League member discontinuing its basketball program as the Bison are still alive and well.

                          By the NCAA's own rules, O'Brien is not eligible for this waiver. It is there in black and white, yet the national media wants to villify Phil Martelli. The outrage should be levelled at the NCAA, not Martelli, who is the conveient scapegoat because O'Brien's relationship with the coach seemed to have broken down, much like it did with his coach at Bucknell. Does anybody sense a pattern here?
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                          "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke

                          "The wisest men follow their own direction." - Euripides

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                          • Koolie G
                            MVP
                            • Mar 2005
                            • 1812

                            #14
                            Re: St. Joe's refuses to release Todd O'Brien

                            The article you posted is from Dec. 20, the one I linked is a little newer, it's from January 10th.

                            From my article:
                            The NCAA denied O'Brien's first request last fall, deferring to Saint Joseph's decision.
                            Assuming the NCAA is denying him by following their stupid rule, that still doesn't mean St. Joes shouldn't release him. If anything, that is more reason for St. Joes to wash thier hands of it. If St. Joes released him then everybody WOULD be mad at the NCAA because then the kid would only be pointing fingers at the NCAA. I'm mad at the NCAA too, they are a joke. That rule is stupid. If a kid wants to transfer to 4 colleges in 4 years, then let him do it. Who cares? It's not like that is going to be the norm. These schools act like they own these kids. Scholarships are only 1 year agreements anyway, the school could pull that from him and he would have NO recourse except to transfer. What if that happened at 2 schools. Could he not transfer because of this stupid NCAA rule?

                            It only hurts the kid if he wants to keep transferring. He will have to sit out more than he would get to play if he transfers between Div 1 schools anyway, and even longer if he transferred within the same conference.

                            I don't care if O'Brien was the worst cancer on the team in both places, it's not about whether he was a troublemaker or had a pattern of bad relationships with coaches. That just distracts from the real point. If he is a troublemaker why not give him a fresh start at a new school and let someone else deal with him if they are willing to take him on? Not releasing him just seems petty, especially if they know the NCAA won't clear him anyway. Why take the bad PR if you don't have to? Makes zero sense.

                            This whole thing just doesn't pass the smell test. There HAS TO BE more to this story. The NCAA is a joke and I'm not gonna think St. Joes is doing the right thing until they explain why they are doing what they are doing.
                            Last edited by Koolie G; 01-18-2012, 04:41 PM.
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                            • Yeah...THAT Guy
                              Once in a Lifetime Memory
                              • Dec 2006
                              • 17294

                              #15
                              Re: St. Joe's refuses to release Todd O'Brien

                              How is this any different from any other player that isn't granted a release by his coach at any other school? Sorry to sound ignorant, haven't paid much attention to this particular story.
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