Revamped Overall Formula for NBA 2K15 Player Ratings Explained

[franzis]

Re: Revamped Overall Formula for NBA 2K15

The system thing can be confusing but when I think system it is usually:

Triangle, Motion, Princeton offense, Pick and roll. How do you tell what player can do well in a triangle vs. another offense especially if a player has never played under that system? I think the problem lies with the team/coach/philosophy.

I agree with you but I don't think it's possible to implement that in the game in such terms (as Czar wondered).

That's why my first assumption was to simplify what we mean with "team system" in 2k perspective

[threattonature]

Re: Revamped Overall Formula for NBA 2K15

Interesting but my question is what data would drive a players value per system when all players have not performed under each system.

It is what teams do now when searching for free agents, just making blind guesses over who will fit into the style they play. My thought is more for myleague/myteam. Each team should have their own variables they look for to calculate the overall rating based on a system. Most coaches have a basic system in place rather it's more uptempo, pick and roll, 3 point shooting, inside/out. So the data that would drive their value in different systems are their existing ratings.

wouldn't that be mostly up for interpretation or is there existing data that shows a players effectiveness in a particular system?

We don't necessarily know how a player will fare in a given stystem until we see him in it do we ?

What I'm suggesting is just using the existing attributes and the system would determine the overall. So a player with high speed, quickness, jumping, steals would rate higher in an uptempo system or be more valuable in that type of system compared to being in a Spurs or Memphis system where that athleticism would not matter near as much. Basically what I'm suggesting is a way to give different teams, a more distinct identity and style.

What are the definitive markers you would use to clearly define each system especially when some guys either have no discernable "system" or run a mixture of both.

Which teams do you think don't have an identifiable system? I think especially now with the SportVu tracking so much data that it's definitely possible to gather what type of style each team plays and what types of skillsets would fit in each one.

To me it just initially I think that would cause as many issues as it solves especially since it could be mostly user opinion that would drive it.

So not saying it couldn't work just asking how would it work and if that would really be better ? Another thread maybe ? IDK LOL.

ps apologies for typo's I am using a phone on a treadmill.

I do agree with how everything works it would be extremely complicated but eventually could tie any many different factors. The way I see it could possibly work long term is in myGM it could affect the type of coaches that each owner would hire. The coach based on the system he's running can determine which players they attempt to go after in free agency and on the flip side and play a factor in free agents determining what team they choose to sign with.

I think the one thing missing in association mode is teams having individual personalities or styles after a year or two because they're all going after the same players based off the same overalls.

[Da_Czar]

Re: Revamped Overall Formula for NBA 2K15

It is what teams do now when searching for free agents, just making blind guesses over who will fit into the style they play. My thought is more for myleague/myteam. Each team should have their own variables they look for to calculate the overall rating based on a system. Most coaches have a basic system in place rather it's more uptempo, pick and roll, 3 point shooting, inside/out. So the data that would drive their value in different systems are their existing ratings.




What I'm suggesting is just using the existing attributes and the system would determine the overall. So a player with high speed, quickness, jumping, steals would rate higher in an uptempo system or be more valuable in that type of system compared to being in a Spurs or Memphis system where that athleticism would not matter near as much. Basically what I'm suggesting is a way to give different teams, a more distinct identity and style.




Which teams do you think don't have an identifiable system? I think especially now with the SportVu tracking so much data that it's definitely possible to gather what type of style each team plays and what types of skillsets would fit in each one.



I do agree with how everything works it would be extremely complicated but eventually could tie any many different factors. The way I see it could possibly work long term is in myGM it could affect the type of coaches that each owner would hire. The coach based on the system he's running can determine which players they attempt to go after in free agency and on the flip side and play a factor in free agents determining what team they choose to sign with.

I think the one thing missing in association mode is teams having individual personalities or styles after a year or two because they're all going after the same players based off the same overalls.

Good stuff! Def something for us to discuss.

[Colts18]

Re: Revamped Overall Formula for NBA 2K15

Or the AI's gm could look for players with certain grades in specific attributes. Like a gm of the Celtics is looking for a PG with at least a B in athleticism. And this should be in the coach profile

[rgp913]

Re: Revamped Overall Formula for NBA 2K15

It sounds like they are just removing the filter of position in determining overall rating. Essentially- ratings will be calculated pretty much the same, but instead of a given player's position dictating which of the 5 potential overalls they receive (either pg,sg,sf,pf, or c overall) they tweaked it so a players overall is the highest of the 5 formulas. They simply eliminated a position penalty and put the onus on the ratings. I don't think it's as in depth and evolved as some of you are guessing.

[bedwardsroy19]

Re: Revamped Overall Formula for NBA 2K15

It sounds like they are just removing the filter of position in determining overall rating. Essentially- ratings will be calculated pretty much the same, but instead of a given player's position dictating which of the 5 potential overalls they receive (either pg,sg,sf,pf, or c overall) they tweaked it so a players overall is the highest of the 5 formulas. They simply eliminated a position penalty and put the onus on the ratings. I don't think it's as in depth and evolved as some of you are guessing.

I'm not sure where this assumption is coming from. As I've said a few times in the thread, there are a variety of Overall formulas that are now being calculated per position to better represent unique players that may not be all around players for their position. These players are still very valuable to a team and in 2K15 their rating will reflect that value

[thedream2k13]

Re: Revamped Overall Formula for NBA 2K15

I'm not sure where this assumption is coming from. As I've said a few times in the thread, there are a variety of Overall formulas that are now being calculated per position to better represent unique players that may not be all around players for their position. These players are still very valuable to a team and in 2K15 their rating will reflect that value

How does this work with one dimensional players like Reggie Evans? His rebounding will give him higher overall in 2k15 than in 2k14?
Seems like a lot of debates will come with this new system with basically all players ranging from 70 to 89

[ronyell]

Re: Revamped Overall Formula for NBA 2K15

It is what teams do now when searching for free agents, just making blind guesses over who will fit into the style they play. My thought is more for myleague/myteam. Each team should have their own variables they look for to calculate the overall rating based on a system. Most coaches have a basic system in place rather it's more uptempo, pick and roll, 3 point shooting, inside/out. So the data that would drive their value in different systems are their existing ratings.




What I'm suggesting is just using the existing attributes and the system would determine the overall. So a player with high speed, quickness, jumping, steals would rate higher in an uptempo system or be more valuable in that type of system compared to being in a Spurs or Memphis system where that athleticism would not matter near as much. Basically what I'm suggesting is a way to give different teams, a more distinct identity and style.




Which teams do you think don't have an identifiable system? I think especially now with the SportVu tracking so much data that it's definitely possible to gather what type of style each team plays and what types of skillsets would fit in each one.



I do agree with how everything works it would be extremely complicated but eventually could tie any many different factors. The way I see it could possibly work long term is in myGM it could affect the type of coaches that each owner would hire. The coach based on the system he's running can determine which players they attempt to go after in free agency and on the flip side and play a factor in free agents determining what team they choose to sign with.

I think the one thing missing in association mode is teams having individual personalities or styles after a year or two because they're all going after the same players based off the same overalls.

extremely good post here & it looks like someone finally noticed these type of ideas... (Czar) lol

after reading the explanation of the ratings, I am a bit more at ease but still incredibly concerned as to how this will play out in regard to free agents & rookies being overrated & more importantly how ratings affect the starting lineups of CPU controlled teams.

If they are still ratings based, it will cause 6th men & role players to start & subsequently; free agent pick ups & rookies may not have to earn their minutes as they may be given to them if they are rated high enough. Of course i'm referring to MYLeague & other season modes when i speak of these concerns. Be awesome if someone could chime in on this.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Revamped Overall Formula for NBA 2K15

I'm not sure where this assumption is coming from. As I've said a few times in the thread, there are a variety of Overall formulas that are now being calculated per position to better represent unique players that may not be all around players for their position. These players are still very valuable to a team and in 2K15 their rating will reflect that value

That is a clarification on what I have been asking. Multiple formulas PER position.

What you mean to say is each player archetype within a position has it's own OVR set, and the game auto-assigns whichever one nets the highest OVR

All Positions: All-Around, Athletic, Defensive, Scoring/Back to Basket, 3pt Specialist/Faceup
PG: Pass First
SG: Slashing
SF: Slashing, Point Forward
PF/C: Rebounding

Whether there is a formula for each of these types, new types, or any types removed is not quite being made clear (which is surely the intention, with a month to go).

In the case of Drummond I imagine his rating jumps to 83 because the "rebounding" or "defensive" archetype values him greater than last year's formula. This also explains why all of the low-rated centers are taking quantum leaps; their lack of offensive skill no longer hampers their rating

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Revamped Overall Formula for NBA 2K15

after reading the explanation of the ratings, I am a bit more at ease but still incredibly concerned as to how this will play out in regard to free agents & rookies being overrated & more importantly how ratings affect the starting lineups of CPU controlled teams.

I'm sure this system was brought in as a means to combat that. Most of the top-rated SG are all sixth men, while the starters are usually one-dimensional 3 & D guys. System seems designed to increase the rating of those 3 & D guys so they might be higher valued by their teams, and consequently, starters.

I don't think the CPU AI will ever be perfect. Nor should it, as IRL we have coaches making human errors with their lineups all the time (Scotty Brooks!). This appears to be a step in the right direction for 2K though.

[Gramps91]

Yea, I really like the sound of this. Looking forward to seeing the different player types. Hopefully there are quite a few so it feels pretty specific.

[jfinger2013]

Re: Revamped Overall Formula for NBA 2K15

IMO for those confused I believe what they mean by different formulas now than just one singular formula to base players overall is for example in nba 2k14 a guy like Thabo Sefolosha is rated with a very low overall despite being the teams starting SG and very important to that team defensively.
He was rated low due to the fact that they only used 1 formula to produce overalls in 2k14 and in that formula how good Thabo Sefolosha was defensively didn't matter. So it didn't make his overall go up.
What they are saying now is that guys like Thabo Sefolosha who are only " Good " players because of one thing they do really well like play defense he will still get a good overall rating because now they have different Formulas that weight defense as important so he will have a good overall.
Just like Kyle Korver in 2K14 who was rated very lowly in 2k14 despite being a starter and the best shooter in the NBA due to the fact that the old formula didn't weight his shooting as important. But now they prolly have a formula that makes Shooting important and will make Korver higher Overall

They prolly have 5 formulas one that produces a good overall rating for Defense, Shooters, Rebounders, Passers, Scorers or something of that matter.

That's how it works out in my head I think. Im excited to see how this works out

P.S idk Bedwardsroy worked for NBA 2K14 when did that happen or did he always work for them? either way Congrats man

[rgp913]

Re: Revamped Overall Formula for NBA 2K15

I'm not sure where this assumption is coming from. As I've said a few times in the thread, there are a variety of Overall formulas that are now being calculated per position to better represent unique players that may not be all around players for their position. These players are still very valuable to a team and in 2K15 their rating will reflect that value

My understanding came from the information you supplied. That's what I comprehended from your summary. If it's more indepth and works differently- that is great. I hope it is. Can you clarify more and explain in greater detail?

[Leftos]

Re: Revamped Overall Formula for NBA 2K15

Let me take a stab at clearing up the confusion although Rashidi pretty much has it down.

Each Position has a set of Archetypes (or Player Types, if you will). All-Around, Athletic, Defensive, etc. A player has an overall per player type per position. So a player has (NumberOfPositions * NumberOfPlayerTypesPerPosition) overall ratings. Each Positional Player Type has its own overall formula (so PG All Around has a different formula than PF All Around has a different formula than C Defensive).

Whenever his overall rating gets updated, we calculate all the overall ratings for his position by player type. The player type that gives him his the highest overall is the one we determine "most compatible", so we assign it to him along with that Overall.

So yes, a player that might be C All-Around but as years go by sees his offensive attributes regress but you've made sure to keep him up to par defensively using (cheap plug but I'm a dev) our new in-season Training system, might see his player type change to C Defensive, and his value to the team will still be there.

As for team-building AI, we've taken some steps to make sure teams take into account specific needs as far as more specific skills go. So if that player losing his offensive ability means that the team lost their main source of points, they'll value players that can bring the team's scoring up more than players that might be contributing to needs sufficiently covered (such as defense, in this example). (Let me clarify that the examples of "offense" and "defense" are shallow and the "skills" teams look at go beyond that; there's 13 different categories actually.)

That said, Team Style is still a factor, so teams won't all "average out" by trying to cover skill needs, if a coach prefers to play a certain way. So if a team prefers outside scorers over inside scorers, it won't value inside scorers as much, even if it has more of a need for them than another team.

Also, we pay much more attention at position stacking which has been a problem for years in the franchise. Teams are much more aware of trying to build each position with a player of starter quality, a decent bench player and a 3rd string backup (less important but good to have). Not every team is going to be perfect, and if they were, they wouldn't be able to replicate my frustration with Detroit's roster all these past years. :P More than 3 players in a position starts making teams reconsider unless their skills and secondary position mean that they're of significant value to the team. No more "Oh, another 80+ point guard available? Never mind that we have 5 of them already, let's get one more since we can fit him under the salary cap!" I cringed so bad when someone showed me a screenshot of that and I made a point of starting to fix that logic that very same day.

You can see how a system like this gets really complicated. I'm very happy with our new overall formulas and logic this year, and along with the improvements to team-building (which isn't going to be perfect but we've taken strides in the right direction, trust me) gives us nice results and a nice base to continue working off of based on this year's feedback.

A lot of things have been changed this year, so I'm really looking forward to fresh feedback once you get your hands on the game.

[PPerfect_CJ]

Re: Revamped Overall Formula for NBA 2K15

How does this work with one dimensional players like Reggie Evans? His rebounding will give him higher overall in 2k15 than in 2k14?
Seems like a lot of debates will come with this new system with basically all players ranging from 70 to 89

That is a GREAT example. Wouldn't that higher overall (only due to rebounding) push his salary up too high in free agency?