No Draft in MyCareer-- But we were SO close.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: No Draft in MyCareer-- But we were SO close.

You know I agree Born...

Just seems like sometimes the essence of "simulation" has been lost, and turned more into a crutch for complaining about what guy's don't personally prefer.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: No Draft in MyCareer-- But we were SO close.

You know I agree Born...

Just seems like sometimes the essence of "simulation" has been lost, and turned more into a crutch for complaining about what guy's don't personally prefer.

I know. I'm just in the habit of ignoring the white noise of ridiculous opinions. There are a lot of terrible ideas going around. That's ok. People haven't put in the work and thought to come up with real solutions, so good ideas shouldn't be expected. If you're an educated, experienced(read: old like us) SimHead, you can reinterpret their words and read the source of dissatisfaction.

Rather than responding to every bad idea, I just try to figure out the good counteridea that I might bring up on #Simnation. Going back and forth in here is a waste if I genuinely believe an idea is terrible.

[zasbury25]

Re: No Draft in MyCareer-- But we were SO close.

It will be interesting to see how the FA path plays out and I think it will be a refreshing take on the storyline over the draft storyline. If we are talking realism, I don't think the previous draft process was all that realistic anyways...if I am not mistaken, all the draftees ended up going in the same slots and to the same teams, regardless of where you were drafted. It seems like the NBA doesn't allow them to change the draft order and I would think that may be why they went for the FA route this time around.

With that said, I would like to see a combine-draft-summer league storyline (that seems to be the route they are taking now) implemented as well at some point...if it was done correctly.

[ImaFreeThinker]

Re: No Draft in MyCareer-- But we were SO close.

I'm now of the opinion that offline modes should be released as a separate title. They should be worked on by a separate team. That's really the only way to make any of this stuff work and be presentable as realistic with depth. This may not make sense monetarily for 2k, but there is no doubt that the product would be better.

[TrustedDegree4]

Re: No Draft in MyCareer-- But we were SO close.

Why can't 2k listen to the FANS and just bring it back to how it was in 2k10 and 2k11.

Starting out as a high 30s or Low 40 overall player.

Playing some Draft Combine to see where you get draft, and then playing in the Summer League games to see if you could make the Team or not.

Bring back the D-League, and try to incorporate Euro team Basketball to Mycareer also. It would be cool to play in the Fiba games. We could choose instead of going to the NBA we go to Europe to play basketball.

They could keep all the good features they added but get rid of the one we dislike.

I'm curious how were going to get the 10 day contract if there is no D-League.

[Clappington]

Re: No Draft in MyCareer-- But we were SO close.

Why can't 2k listen to the FANS and just bring it back to how it was in 2k10 and 2k11.

Starting out as a high 30s or Low 40 overall player.

Playing some Draft Combine to see where you get draft, and then playing in the Summer League games to see if you could make the Team or not.

Bring back the D-League, and try to incorporate Euro team Basketball to Mycareer also. It would be cool to play in the Fiba games. We could choose instead of going to the NBA we go to Europe to play basketball.

They could keep all the good features they added but get rid of the one we dislike.

I'm curious how were going to get the 10 day contract if there is no D-League.

Listen to what? the minority all this stuff 2k is doing is putting them on a national stage, I'm seeing USA today write about face scanning and MyCareer info and Pharrell, because of this story mode deal. So if they are doing something wrong I dont want them to be right.

[JasonMartin]

Re: No Draft in MyCareer-- But we were SO close.

Listen to what? the minority all this stuff 2k is doing is putting them on a national stage

Once upon a time 2K was the underdog in this whole story, they were competing against EA. EA left the stage for a while and 2K turned directions and went 'global'/expanded/sold out/whatever you want to call it.

From a company standpoint that's a great thing they have done and achieved. They have taken over EA's role. Then again, it's not the 2K we used to know. A true and real gaming company that wanted to deliver the best game out there. Bang for buck. Since EA left they've become EA's Madden. There is no competition and we should be happy with what we get.

So them being talked about on by the media, having ads on big networks and such. Sure, good going but the success hasn't been good for the die hard fans that have been there since the start.

[Taer]

Re: No Draft in MyCareer-- But we were SO close.

Listen to what? the minority all this stuff 2k is doing is putting them on a national stage, I'm seeing USA today write about face scanning and MyCareer info and Pharrell, because of this story mode deal. So if they are doing something wrong I dont want them to be right.

Following the market will only work so long if you abandon the core of what defined your product in the first place.

2K saw this with VC - going the route of the AAA titles only alienated their core -to the point that many in that core were willing to abandon the title even if nothing else was available.

The vision and implementation of that vision is going to change over time but there are core elements of that vision which define it to those experiencing that vision as gamers. Last year, VC pay-walls in MyGM crossed that "red-line" so forcefully that they single-handedly tanked the debut of a new mode which the core of 2K's gamer base should have loved.

The implementation of the MyCareer mode is evolving and change will occur, however, there were core elements in that vision which defined it from the beginning. The things that are adding to the media attention are not what we are talking about here. Both the Coaching 101 and the side-line antics are things that are peripheral and if expanded correctly on could add to those core definitional elements.

Taking away the D-league experience, the Combine start, and, yes, even the problematic draft are all directly adverse to that core vision. If this slow evolution eventually takes us back to a new implementation of that core then we will all be good and 2K's success will continue.

If 2K abandons too much of the original core vision then eventually they will cross that red-line and they will risk tanking that success with this mode's following. They may transcend that vision into one that attracts a completely new set of gamers but it also means the original set of gamers will abandon that same vision.

[Clappington]

Re: No Draft in MyCareer-- But we were SO close.

What 2k is trying to get done is smart appeal to the mass majority that's your biggest fan base and you want to keep them happy yes sometimes you should stick to the core but change is good sometimes and in this case change was really good for 2k it took them to another whole level and moving forward . Some guys still want some old stuff that they lived in next gen and it won't make its way there and sometimes that's ok can't please everyone have to aim for the mass majority.

[TheDuggler]

Re: No Draft in MyCareer-- But we were SO close.

You guys gotta realize that each year MyCareer is going to have a story, and this is just the story for this year.

Next year it could be that you get drafted #1 and then have a huge injury or something.


So chill out.

[Sundown]

No Draft in MyCareer-- But we were SO close.

You guys gotta realize that each year MyCareer is going to have a story, and this is just the story for this year.

Next year it could be that you get drafted #1 and then have a huge injury or something.


So chill out.

MyCareer/Player didn't have a story until last year, so no, that's not a given. At least not a overly scripted one. And it's not something we need to simply accept.

I completely welcome story/immersion elements but there's a big difference between that and one particular career path force fit onto us for the sake of some cutscenes of varying believability.

Another force fit story next year like your example would be absolutely horrible, and there's absolutely no reason 2K should take it in that direction.

[ffaacc03]

Re: No Draft in MyCareer-- But we were SO close.

Sim is just having the fundamentals of the video game represent the fundamentals of the real life game. Simulation, not replication. Basketball is fun, so Sim should be fun. It's not that complicated. Once you make any decision different from real life, regardless of game mode, you're no longer replicating reality. However, you can still be on a feasible, alternate path of reality if the fundamentals of the video game world Simulate the fundamentals of basketball.

That's why trade logic needs to be good in MyLeague/MyCareer etc. So your video game experience can live up to the "what if" of your basketball fantasies. We can't let the back and forth of a forum let us forget these principles.

I agree must be simulation not replication, thus I would rephrase it or add: not just get the game to represent the fundamentals of the sport/real life game ... but also, since it is titled "NBA"2K, it should also get the fundamentals of the National Basketball Association and its atmosphere, its business part, its everyday and commun elements prior to those that are rarely seen or a part of, to me, that goes hand in hand with: fun.

Its in this vein that I somewhat agree with those asking for less scripted/restrictive stories, for those wanting the reintegration of some vital parts of the NBA such as the Draft, the Draft Combine, Summer League and the DLeague or as you said, the trade logic more in line with virtual and real life context ... this is were I also see the possibility of a "more sim" approach, thus I would rather catalog it as a "more authentic" approach (agree, more sim isnt appropiate here).

Ultimately tho, I dont agree with removing this new approach entirely, nor anything (or almost anything) ... I am all for giving options to the users, so I rather have them give us many alternate paths and options, some in line with a more authentic approach and others as this take.

[VDusen04]

Re: No Draft in MyCareer-- But we were SO close.

What 2k is trying to get done is smart appeal to the mass majority that's your biggest fan base and you want to keep them happy yes sometimes you should stick to the core but change is good sometimes and in this case change was really good for 2k it took them to another whole level and moving forward . Some guys still want some old stuff that they lived in next gen and it won't make its way there and sometimes that's ok can't please everyone have to aim for the mass majority.

Yeah, and I think that's where a lot of the disconnect stems. What's popular is not always the same as what may be perceived as being of sound quality. Sometimes yes. Many times no. I think things get weird when it's a piece of art (NBA 2K is an art piece, not just in the literal drawing sense, but as a product as a whole) while at the same time being a for-profit enterprise.

If NBA 2K were somehow a game that did not exist for profit or sales and was only an exercise in creating an outstanding NBA simulation and replication, do I believe something like the tacky dialogue in MyCareer would still be included? I am not so sure. However, 2K is and always was for profit, so all else is null and void. The question then becomes, at what point does legitimate quality end and merely pandering to a popular audience begin?

To oversimplify things, maybe a lot of this just has to do with 2K's shifting audience over the years. When many folks originally jumped on board in the early 2000's (present company included), 2K seemed to be catering to a niche crowd of basketball enthusiasts, believing that if they built it, some of us would come. Over time, while slowly building a loyal following as they developed a penchant for quality, alongside Live's own demise, it seems 2K's taken on all of the basketball crowd and is now trying to appeal to all of those fans on a large scale - many of the enthusiasts who remain but also a lot of the Live crossover crowd, of whom many are also enthusiasts but perhaps more are not, leading to a conflict in interest.

Tough position for 2K. Business is business, but it does not make game decisions divorced from what some desire from their NBA basketball simulation any easier to understand and support.

[Sundown]

Re: No Draft in MyCareer-- But we were SO close.

Yeah, and I think that's where a lot of the disconnect stems. What's popular is not always the same as what may be perceived as being of sound quality. Sometimes yes. Many times no. I think things get weird when it's a piece of art (NBA 2K is an art piece, not just in the literal drawing sense, but as a product as a whole) while at the same time being a for-profit enterprise.

If NBA 2K were somehow a game that did not exist for profit or sales and was only an exercise in creating an outstanding NBA simulation and replication, do I believe something like the tacky dialogue in MyCareer would still be included? I am not so sure. However, 2K is and always was for profit, so all else is null and void. The question then becomes, at what point does legitimate quality end and merely pandering to a popular audience begin?

To oversimplify things, maybe a lot of this just has to do with 2K's shifting audience over the years. When many folks originally jumped on board in the early 2000's (present company included), 2K seemed to be catering to a niche crowd of basketball enthusiasts, believing that if they built it, some of us would come. Over time, while slowly building a loyal following as they developed a penchant for quality, alongside Live's own demise, it seems 2K's taken on all of the basketball crowd and is now trying to appeal to all of those fans on a large scale - many of the enthusiasts who remain but also a lot of the Live crossover crowd, of whom many are also enthusiasts but perhaps more are not, leading to a conflict in interest.

Tough position for 2K. Business is business, but it does not make game decisions divorced from what some desire from their NBA basketball simulation any easier to understand and support.

Thing is, I'm not sure tacky dialogue actually appeals to anyone. I don't think MyCareer is tacky on purpose. It feels like an attempt at immersion and narrative but where the writer missed on achieving a compelling tone. I was thinking maybe that sort of storytelling is meant to be understandable to younger audiences, but then again there's plenty of accessible sports movies that also carry believability and weight.

[sdghfj]

Re: No Draft in MyCareer-- But we were SO close.

Nah, that feeling of dread for something so obvious being taken out was last year when the entire Association mode was taken out and VC was implemented in MyGM for making changes to your roster.