So 2k, when will the scripted game play end?

[Boilerbuzz]

Re: So 2k, when will the scripted game play end?

So we should have to guess what the momentum is at at any given time, then? How do we even know that its actually in the game in the first place? There's no proof of it. We just have to guess who has momentum at any given time, while not even knowing its in the game.

Mike Wang has confirmed the momentum system multiple times in the past. How would you know when it's kicked in? The same way a real coach would. The other team is going on a run on you or a player is getting hot on you.

[BBallcoach]

Re: So 2k, when will the scripted game play end?

So we should have to guess what the momentum is at at any given time, then? How do we even know that its actually in the game in the first place? There's no proof of it. We just have to guess who has momentum at any given time, while not even knowing its in the game.

There is plenty of proof. You know when the CPU goes on runs, even in head to heads, when someone goes on a 8-10 point run? Call a timeout, that is momentum kicking in, just like real life.

[heelphreak]

Re: So 2k, when will the scripted game play end?

I found this discussion with Beluba from the 2K forums last year. Very good information.

Regarding Built in Auto Come Back or Momentum (org question very long)
I know no one's going to believe me... but there is absolutely ZERO code in our game that artificially shifts momentum one way or the other. Not in user vs. AI games... not in user vs. user games. There are hot and cold streaks that exist on a player level, but those have always been performance based. In other words, if a player starts missing shots, he'll go cold. If he starts making shots, he'll get hot. But we've never had anything that said if Team A is getting blown out, boost their ratings and nerf Team B to keep the game close.


Lets be serious 2k... Nothing fun about predetermined close games online
I'm going to chime in here against my better judgement. Again, there's no comeback, rubber band, or whatever logic you want to call it. Nor is there any home court advantage, with the one exception that in user vs. user games, the home team user can shake the screen during free throws.

No one on the gameplay team is a fan of pre-determined outcomes, we have no hidden agenda to handicap the game in any way to make games close or to keep bad players from getting frustrated. Even if we wanted to, it would not be feasible to muck with loose ball physics to make rebounds favor a certain team or to make it easier for one player vs. another to win 50/50 balls. We have nothing to gain from putting the work in to do those kinds of things, and I certainly would have nothing to gain from coming on the boards and lying about it.

Here's what I observe when I watch people play our game... and it never fails, many people struggle with managing their perceptions. I hear it day after day, we have tools that print out the shot percentages on each shot in our builds and people call me in with complaints like... "Mike, why did I just miss a 50% 3 pointer, while the AI just made a 30% one!" Or "my dude just bricked a wide open layup, the AI got the rebound and hit a half court 3 at the buzzer to tie! That sucks! Fix it!"

Here's the thing, if you take 50% shots every single trip down the floor... over the course of time, you will probably average 50%. But it's also possible that in the course of the game, you might hit a stretch where you average 25% and you might hit a stretch where you hit 75%. That's just the nature of the math.

My advice to everyone is to just try and keep your head when shots aren't falling for you. Usually, when dice rolls start failing you, people tend to get out of their gameplan and start pressing. If you continue to execute and take quality shots, chances are you'll always beat someone who forces bad shots over and over again.

And yes, please post footage of this alleged comeback logic. I would love to see a breakdown of how often a user who consistently takes lower quality shots can beat a user who takes higher quality shots. Yeah it may happen once in a while purely based on luck, but it won't be the norm.


So there's no momentum ?
Only in the user's mind. There's a performance based streak system on a player level but it's not as powerful as one might think.


I thought you at Visual Concepts had advertised this as a feature. Not only do players get hot and cold and everywhere in between, but there are skills like posterizer, highlight film, eraser, charge card, closer, anti-freeze, microwave, heat retention and maybe others I forgot which fit into this bill. In addition the crowd gets louder or quieter based on the current run which to me has always seemed like a good indication on the momentum. I attribute a lot of my wins online on my willingness to call timeouts based on runs. I have friends which I believe are just as good at the game otherwise but I win most of the games because I call timely timeouts and they don't. Incredibly often I find that open shots don't connect for the other team when you're on a run, and easy passes become turnovers. Now either calling a timeout which often takes a whopping 5 seconds of time resets the momentum, or it has a strong psychological effect on the users. Either way it works.

That's my main gripe with what you said. Now on an unrelated note I also noticed in 2K13 is when I had an A+ shot online I would miss disproportionately. Note that it's not the "oh I missed an open jumper" syndrome that is going around in 2K14. Now you wouldn't get many A+ shots in 2K13 unlike this year, when I did they were most often mid range jumpers on fast breaks. Notable was that pretty much any open jumper inside the 3pt line you seemed to take on fast breaks would go in regardless of who was shooting and how bad the shot release was. Only when I had an A+ shot I found it not going in. Anything from C+ to A rated shots would always go in, but not A+ shots for some reason.

Also when I used to play MyCareer on HOF in 2K10-12, I noticed that no matter what kind of blowout my team started with, the CPU team would always come back no matter how big the deficit was.
Yes, signature skills have a very real impact on the performance of your players and team, but there's no underlying momentum system shifting the balance one way or the other. There are shifts in momentum, but they are a result of the circumstances, not artificially imposed by the game.

When you're on a run, it's usually because you're making good decisions, you're taking care of the ball, your players might be getting hot (making them more effective), and dice rolls are going your way. On the flipside, your opponents (both human and AI) might make a run on you if the opposite is true. And yes, Sundown, it's usually during these droughts that bugs, such as missed inbounds passes or seemingly random turnovers, feel more amplified as if the game is out to get you. But I can assure you it's purely coincidental. If you ever see a missed easy pass, per your example, it's NEVER intentional.




Link: http://forums.2k.com/showthread.php?...ang-Has-Spoken

[tomzennsbruh]

Re: So 2k, when will the scripted game play end?

I found this discussion with Beluba from the 2K forums last year. Very good information.

Regarding Built in Auto Come Back or Momentum (org question very long)
I know no one's going to believe me... but there is absolutely ZERO code in our game that artificially shifts momentum one way or the other. Not in user vs. AI games... not in user vs. user games. There are hot and cold streaks that exist on a player level, but those have always been performance based. In other words, if a player starts missing shots, he'll go cold. If he starts making shots, he'll get hot. But we've never had anything that said if Team A is getting blown out, boost their ratings and nerf Team B to keep the game close.


Lets be serious 2k... Nothing fun about predetermined close games online
I'm going to chime in here against my better judgement. Again, there's no comeback, rubber band, or whatever logic you want to call it. Nor is there any home court advantage, with the one exception that in user vs. user games, the home team user can shake the screen during free throws.

No one on the gameplay team is a fan of pre-determined outcomes, we have no hidden agenda to handicap the game in any way to make games close or to keep bad players from getting frustrated. Even if we wanted to, it would not be feasible to muck with loose ball physics to make rebounds favor a certain team or to make it easier for one player vs. another to win 50/50 balls. We have nothing to gain from putting the work in to do those kinds of things, and I certainly would have nothing to gain from coming on the boards and lying about it.

Here's what I observe when I watch people play our game... and it never fails, many people struggle with managing their perceptions. I hear it day after day, we have tools that print out the shot percentages on each shot in our builds and people call me in with complaints like... "Mike, why did I just miss a 50% 3 pointer, while the AI just made a 30% one!" Or "my dude just bricked a wide open layup, the AI got the rebound and hit a half court 3 at the buzzer to tie! That sucks! Fix it!"

Here's the thing, if you take 50% shots every single trip down the floor... over the course of time, you will probably average 50%. But it's also possible that in the course of the game, you might hit a stretch where you average 25% and you might hit a stretch where you hit 75%. That's just the nature of the math.

My advice to everyone is to just try and keep your head when shots aren't falling for you. Usually, when dice rolls start failing you, people tend to get out of their gameplan and start pressing. If you continue to execute and take quality shots, chances are you'll always beat someone who forces bad shots over and over again.

And yes, please post footage of this alleged comeback logic. I would love to see a breakdown of how often a user who consistently takes lower quality shots can beat a user who takes higher quality shots. Yeah it may happen once in a while purely based on luck, but it won't be the norm.


So there's no momentum ?
Only in the user's mind. There's a performance based streak system on a player level but it's not as powerful as one might think.


I thought you at Visual Concepts had advertised this as a feature. Not only do players get hot and cold and everywhere in between, but there are skills like posterizer, highlight film, eraser, charge card, closer, anti-freeze, microwave, heat retention and maybe others I forgot which fit into this bill. In addition the crowd gets louder or quieter based on the current run which to me has always seemed like a good indication on the momentum. I attribute a lot of my wins online on my willingness to call timeouts based on runs. I have friends which I believe are just as good at the game otherwise but I win most of the games because I call timely timeouts and they don't. Incredibly often I find that open shots don't connect for the other team when you're on a run, and easy passes become turnovers. Now either calling a timeout which often takes a whopping 5 seconds of time resets the momentum, or it has a strong psychological effect on the users. Either way it works.

That's my main gripe with what you said. Now on an unrelated note I also noticed in 2K13 is when I had an A+ shot online I would miss disproportionately. Note that it's not the "oh I missed an open jumper" syndrome that is going around in 2K14. Now you wouldn't get many A+ shots in 2K13 unlike this year, when I did they were most often mid range jumpers on fast breaks. Notable was that pretty much any open jumper inside the 3pt line you seemed to take on fast breaks would go in regardless of who was shooting and how bad the shot release was. Only when I had an A+ shot I found it not going in. Anything from C+ to A rated shots would always go in, but not A+ shots for some reason.

Also when I used to play MyCareer on HOF in 2K10-12, I noticed that no matter what kind of blowout my team started with, the CPU team would always come back no matter how big the deficit was.
Yes, signature skills have a very real impact on the performance of your players and team, but there's no underlying momentum system shifting the balance one way or the other. There are shifts in momentum, but they are a result of the circumstances, not artificially imposed by the game.

When you're on a run, it's usually because you're making good decisions, you're taking care of the ball, your players might be getting hot (making them more effective), and dice rolls are going your way. On the flipside, your opponents (both human and AI) might make a run on you if the opposite is true. And yes, Sundown, it's usually during these droughts that bugs, such as missed inbounds passes or seemingly random turnovers, feel more amplified as if the game is out to get you. But I can assure you it's purely coincidental. If you ever see a missed easy pass, per your example, it's NEVER intentional.




Link: http://forums.2k.com/showthread.php?...ang-Has-Spoken

People will still refuse to believe it. They pit it on HOF and can't understand why they lose...

Try putting other games in the highest difficulty. Destiny, Skyrim, Battlefield...good luck.

I've actually had some rebut that above statement with, "Comparing those games to sports games are even close to the same."

No, actually they are the EXACT same, A VIDEO GAME.

There are plenty of difficulty levels, game styles, and in some modes, sliders that can be tweaked. Its not life and death, these things should not ruin your day. Its a video game.

[heelphreak]

Re: So 2k, when will the scripted game play end?

People want to believe there's something wrong with the game when the cpu curb stomps you or mounts an incredible comeback.

Just last night in my league I played the heat and lost by 20 as my Hornets. At one point i gave up a 17-4 run with 2:00+ where I didn't score at all.

I got pissed and frustrated, but when I calmed down and looked at the evidence it was clear what happened. I was slow to make defensive adjustments and quickly got down by 10, at which point I abandoned my offense and went hero ball, shooting too quickly and taking bad shots. Then compounding it by going for steals and taking unnecessary risks on defense. Very quickly my entire team was cold while the heat were hot and it got ugly fast.

Once I settled down and ran some plays and played smart I cut the lead to 8 but never got over the hump because as time became a factor I started taking bad shots and risks again and the lead ballooned to 20 by the end.

[bls]

Re: So 2k, when will the scripted game play end?

How is percentages on shots determined then? I know one thing for sure, its totally different from 2k11.

Can any of the devs chime in as to what system they used in 2k11 for shot percentages?

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2

[jk31]

Re: So 2k, when will the scripted game play end?

Yeah I definitely understand you.

It's not just losing by that. I feel like sometimes I win, though I play much more worse than the opponent, but 2k forces me to win... It works in both ways...

[mrchiggs]

Re: So 2k, when will the scripted game play end?

I found this discussion with Beluba from the 2K forums last year. Very good information.

Regarding Built in Auto Come Back or Momentum (org question very long)
I know no one's going to believe me... but there is absolutely ZERO code in our game that artificially shifts momentum one way or the other. Not in user vs. AI games... not in user vs. user games. There are hot and cold streaks that exist on a player level, but those have always been performance based. In other words, if a player starts missing shots, he'll go cold. If he starts making shots, he'll get hot. But we've never had anything that said if Team A is getting blown out, boost their ratings and nerf Team B to keep the game close.


Lets be serious 2k... Nothing fun about predetermined close games online
I'm going to chime in here against my better judgement. Again, there's no comeback, rubber band, or whatever logic you want to call it. Nor is there any home court advantage, with the one exception that in user vs. user games, the home team user can shake the screen during free throws.

No one on the gameplay team is a fan of pre-determined outcomes, we have no hidden agenda to handicap the game in any way to make games close or to keep bad players from getting frustrated. Even if we wanted to, it would not be feasible to muck with loose ball physics to make rebounds favor a certain team or to make it easier for one player vs. another to win 50/50 balls. We have nothing to gain from putting the work in to do those kinds of things, and I certainly would have nothing to gain from coming on the boards and lying about it.

Here's what I observe when I watch people play our game... and it never fails, many people struggle with managing their perceptions. I hear it day after day, we have tools that print out the shot percentages on each shot in our builds and people call me in with complaints like... "Mike, why did I just miss a 50% 3 pointer, while the AI just made a 30% one!" Or "my dude just bricked a wide open layup, the AI got the rebound and hit a half court 3 at the buzzer to tie! That sucks! Fix it!"

Here's the thing, if you take 50% shots every single trip down the floor... over the course of time, you will probably average 50%. But it's also possible that in the course of the game, you might hit a stretch where you average 25% and you might hit a stretch where you hit 75%. That's just the nature of the math.

My advice to everyone is to just try and keep your head when shots aren't falling for you. Usually, when dice rolls start failing you, people tend to get out of their gameplan and start pressing. If you continue to execute and take quality shots, chances are you'll always beat someone who forces bad shots over and over again.

And yes, please post footage of this alleged comeback logic. I would love to see a breakdown of how often a user who consistently takes lower quality shots can beat a user who takes higher quality shots. Yeah it may happen once in a while purely based on luck, but it won't be the norm.


So there's no momentum ?
Only in the user's mind. There's a performance based streak system on a player level but it's not as powerful as one might think.


I thought you at Visual Concepts had advertised this as a feature. Not only do players get hot and cold and everywhere in between, but there are skills like posterizer, highlight film, eraser, charge card, closer, anti-freeze, microwave, heat retention and maybe others I forgot which fit into this bill. In addition the crowd gets louder or quieter based on the current run which to me has always seemed like a good indication on the momentum. I attribute a lot of my wins online on my willingness to call timeouts based on runs. I have friends which I believe are just as good at the game otherwise but I win most of the games because I call timely timeouts and they don't. Incredibly often I find that open shots don't connect for the other team when you're on a run, and easy passes become turnovers. Now either calling a timeout which often takes a whopping 5 seconds of time resets the momentum, or it has a strong psychological effect on the users. Either way it works.

That's my main gripe with what you said. Now on an unrelated note I also noticed in 2K13 is when I had an A+ shot online I would miss disproportionately. Note that it's not the "oh I missed an open jumper" syndrome that is going around in 2K14. Now you wouldn't get many A+ shots in 2K13 unlike this year, when I did they were most often mid range jumpers on fast breaks. Notable was that pretty much any open jumper inside the 3pt line you seemed to take on fast breaks would go in regardless of who was shooting and how bad the shot release was. Only when I had an A+ shot I found it not going in. Anything from C+ to A rated shots would always go in, but not A+ shots for some reason.

Also when I used to play MyCareer on HOF in 2K10-12, I noticed that no matter what kind of blowout my team started with, the CPU team would always come back no matter how big the deficit was.
Yes, signature skills have a very real impact on the performance of your players and team, but there's no underlying momentum system shifting the balance one way or the other. There are shifts in momentum, but they are a result of the circumstances, not artificially imposed by the game.

When you're on a run, it's usually because you're making good decisions, you're taking care of the ball, your players might be getting hot (making them more effective), and dice rolls are going your way. On the flipside, your opponents (both human and AI) might make a run on you if the opposite is true. And yes, Sundown, it's usually during these droughts that bugs, such as missed inbounds passes or seemingly random turnovers, feel more amplified as if the game is out to get you. But I can assure you it's purely coincidental. If you ever see a missed easy pass, per your example, it's NEVER intentional.




Link: http://forums.2k.com/showthread.php?...ang-Has-Spoken

I don't know... Momentum seems to be in the game. 3rd quarter and the middle of the 4th are almost exactly the same each time I play in MyCareer. The opposing team gets faster and smarter. While my team seems to run in the opposite direction. Thats every game. It seems scripted to be honest.

[heelphreak]

Re: So 2k, when will the scripted game play end?

I know it seems like it, but I see no reason why beluba would go on the record with a response that was a lie.

[VegasBartender]

Re: So 2k, when will the scripted game play end?

I do believe there are no scripts but I also believe the computer decides when somebody goes on a run.

I just played a game last night with some friends. I was playing one guy and I was clearly the better player with a better gameplan and getting better shots. I felt no threat from him what so ever and i was shooting 65% going into the 4th.

Computer assistance kicks in and this guy goes on this insane run making fadeaway jumpers, side way jumpers, glitching through my defense and dunking on everybody. It was absolutely nuts. Meanwhile i never got out my offense and kept working the ball around to get wide open shots only to brick. I'm breaking his players down in isolation with sick dribbles moves only to have my player do some wierd glitch animation and miss the lay up. Had a rebound get sucked through the hand of my player (who was in perfect positon) and into the hand of the the other teams forward who then put back in for a easy layup.

Don't get me starting on the passing when the computer decides to give the opposing team a run... Pretty ugly to say the least, passing in general is broken.

I won the game on a lob from the sideline with 0.5 seconds left right after he just made a layup with 0.5 left.

I do believe the AI wanted an exciting outcome. I've called this many times while playing 2K, you can just tell when the AI is turning in Hyde. You have to use times and limit passing the ball as bad as that sounds.

[mrchiggs]

Re: So 2k, when will the scripted game play end?

LOL I had a similar situation with my homie yesterday. He's at home, and i'm playing great. up by like 12 to 14 points most of the game. 1st quarter, 67 % shooting. Not cheese just moving dat rock and getting great shots. 2nd. we moved down to 47%. We were humanized but still great. 3rd, back up to 51% even after a huge run, we go into the fourth up 9. In the final quarte he shoots 65%, I shoot 20%... I was 2 for 10. Even with 5 steals in the fourth (0) points off steals he defeated me by 9. I said... I aint even mad. LOL

heelphreak, I don't think he was lying, but it happens tooo often. Beluba said something about the Coach, having an effect on the game as well, which could be effecting the runs. But there's definitely a pull.

[rebe1]

Re: So 2k, when will the scripted game play end?

CPU only goes on runs when don't focus after obtaining a big lead. Sounds about right.

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Re: So 2k, when will the scripted game play end?

I do believe there are no scripts but I also believe the computer decides when somebody goes on a run.

I just played a game last night with some friends. I was playing one guy and I was clearly the better player with a better gameplan and getting better shots. I felt no threat from him what so ever and i was shooting 65% going into the 4th.

Computer assistance kicks in and this guy goes on this insane run making fadeaway jumpers, side way jumpers, glitching through my defense and dunking on everybody. It was absolutely nuts. Meanwhile i never got out my offense and kept working the ball around to get wide open shots only to brick. I'm breaking his players down in isolation with sick dribbles moves only to have my player do some wierd glitch animation and miss the lay up. Had a rebound get sucked through the hand of my player (who was in perfect positon) and into the hand of the the other teams forward who then put back in for a easy layup.

Don't get me starting on the passing when the computer decides to give the opposing team a run... Pretty ugly to say the least, passing in general is broken.

I won the game on a lob from the sideline with 0.5 seconds left right after he just made a layup with 0.5 left.

I do believe the AI wanted an exciting outcome. I've called this many times while playing 2K, you can just tell when the AI is turning in Hyde. You have to use times and limit passing the ball as bad as that sounds.

This so much. I Also don't understand why contested shots fall from your opponent more when you have a nice lead . It's annoying . Yet you brick the easiest buckets with respect to ratings. And If that's not bad enough you get the most foolish animations that NBA level athletes would never do

[Boilerbuzz]

Re: So 2k, when will the scripted game play end?

He has CLEARLY said that there is no code that forces close games or comebacks. So you guys are basically calling him a liar. Just say so or move on. Either/or. Or should a mod just close this thread?

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Re: So 2k, when will the scripted game play end?

And I quoted his post to agree that I don't believe in scripts but some instances I've noticed make me wonder ...

To combat this feeling 2k could improve on ball defense and improve the feeling of unresponsive animations especially when the defense tips the ball. Seems like the offense is always faster. That feels "scripted ". When you're working the ball for good looks and brick but your opponent comes down and hit a few contested shots To bring the lead down that too feels "scripted " When basic passes get fumbled or thrown out of bounds but your opponent is throwing crazy paint passes and full court heaves that too feels scripted . I'm not saying it is At all but 2k could improve with consistency in these areas.