Why is it "okay" to cheat?

**HowDareI** · 03-02-2015, 01:59 PM

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

Originally posted by wiserbk

My question/challenge to you is to tell me an exploit. The exact exploit. I'll tell you a realistic way exactly to counter it. Except for 7 ft 3 people, just like in real life height wins. If you want to argue to 2K that 7 foot people shouldn't be allowed to move like forwards that is a legit argument. But that's not getting change as long as you can buy VC to increase attributes. Any other "exploit" I'll tell you EXACTLY how to counter. Give me one?

You don't have to tell me how to counter, I know how.

If someone's zig-zagging, you have to anticipate which way they're going and get there first. I don't use LT/RT on d because it slows you down (which makes no sense).
I use the right stick more, and never actually jump on d. You get the same contest by just putting your hands up.

Setting screens in the paint, I do my work early and get into my position before them. I also have tenacious rebounder and pick pocket so even if they get it I just smash x. (Further proving my point) Why should we have to cheese back just to deal with these exploits?

Corner stepbacks? Again, if you know it's coming just get a hand up...still, it doesn't seem like contests actually mean anything from that spot.
And even better, the three's from the corner are still glitched...you can only shoot a 3 if you're doing the stepback nonsense.

Driving baseline + baseline dunks is just horrible. People can run directly out of bounds but not actually go out because 2K's too lenient on the force-field.
Let's not mention how glitchy baseline dunks look, plus they trigger so easy and are nearly unblockable.

My point is, 3 people on a team doing these things and you have to play a near perfect game just to beat them. But why? Why is it okay for them to do that? There's people who can beat it, but it's still bad basketball and shouldn't be rewarded.

**wiserbk** · 03-02-2015, 04:10 PM

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

Ok please don't get mad at me but you are doing certain things wrong and most people make this mistake including me months ago and that's why people use these strategies online so much.

"If someone's zig-zagging, you have to anticipate which way they're going and get there first. I don't use LT/RT on d because it slows you down (which makes no sense).
I use the right stick more, and never actually jump on d. You get the same contest by just putting your hands up."

Unless the ballhandler is a complete scrub there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY to guard a ball handler without using LT, LT + RT or RT some of the time. If you just use the L stick with no modifiers you can follow the ball handler but as soon as he engages turbo, an ISO motion move, triple threat or even just a sharp angle cut you weren't expecting, he LOST you according to the programming of the game. And he can now pull up for a shot which the game will consider wide open, or he will drive without you being able to stop him unless you turbo way far ahead to where he's going. You have to utilize the modifiers or you can't defend. They are there for a reason. Including quick steps with R stick. I can give detailed explanation on how to use them if you want and if you have xbox one I'll demonstrate.

"
Corner stepbacks? Again, if you know it's coming just get a hand up...still, it doesn't seem like contests actually mean anything from that spot.
And even better, the three's from the corner are still glitched...you can only shoot a 3 if you're doing the stepback nonsense."

This is also related to you being lost by the process I described above by not using the modifiers. And also the R stick contest. Unless you are extremely close to the ball handler the contest doesn't register. Very close. And if ball handler knows what he's doing, if you play so close as soon as he hits you with a quick flick of turbo in any direction he knows the shot is essentially uncontested because you aren't using modifiers. If you get beat off the dribble, which you do all the time, you have to use the block button to contest from a distance, if not the game registers it as an uncontested **** even if you are using R stick. True for anywhere on court but effective in the corner because of what I'll describe below.

"Driving baseline + baseline dunks is just horrible. People can run directly out of bounds but not actually go out because 2K's too lenient on the force-field.
Let's not mention how glitchy baseline dunks look, plus they trigger so easy and are nearly unblock-able"

First guarding the baseline is as simple as anywhere. However, the angles you have to take are different because of the camera angle you are using. That coupled with you only using L Stick to defend are a recipe for disaster. Ball handlers will hover around the point you have to adjust the angles you take and using turbo or isomotion RIGHT THEN. You're ghost every time. and because there's less space from corner to run then from up top to rim, you get Jammed on as soon as he makes the move. Or if you run frantically to rim it's an easy jumper. It's not an exploit, players are just exploiting your bad defense! You have to learn to use modifiers and change the angle you take to cutoff defender as he moves to the sides and corners. Da CZAR has a great video detailing this.
Again Ill answer any specific question you have about it and can demonstrate on Xbox one.

As far as screens under the basket in my park. It's a park game lol. In real life if huge guys were screening under basket in the park it would be a problem. That's where there's 3 second violation in regulation. In the park all bets are off lol.

**Ownal0t** · 03-02-2015, 05:12 PM

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

its so funny to face zig zaggers. " i do it so i can get open" i really feel like im the only guy in the park who uses dribble moves to break down my guy, and get a open shot. (that will miss 3/5 times for god knows what reason) <_<

**Ownal0t** · 03-03-2015, 05:41 AM

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

so i went to play the stage for the first time since the launch of this game with my boys. LMFAO. this is Cheese GALLORE

- Pick Cheese
- Corner Stepback Cheese
- Zig Zagging

LMAO im a 6'2 SG facing SFS andetc and they are in the paint holding their junk pick cheesing vs me , and im still coming out with twice their boards LMFAO.

they try zig zagging and they just get stuck or they run into me and lose the ball

the last resort is the stepback BS. and they still end up losing,. LMAOOOOOOO

this game is too funny

**ronnieb** · 03-03-2015, 08:35 AM

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

just a few remarks
first i never played and never will play the parc the rec center mode my player, so obvioussly my takes on the game doesn't include those games mode.

First of all that s the first 2k i play online constantly; usually i play 99 % offline with 2k, this year it s 50/50 which is completelly new for me.

first i have played great random sim ranked games online, finding player with the same sim mentality and it s a blast when it s happen but it happens more and more frequently, so i can finally play like offline (post game, mid range game, developping plays) but while facing an human opponent which is great.
But when i play a cheeser i just played the same, my best counterattact to cheese is too slow down the game too death and play ultra sim and i actually like it and then find a weakness, all those game are not a good experience but i find my self enjoying it because ithink that 2k give you the tools to counter almost every chesse move.
Just saying this because it s bassically impossible to avoid cheese online it so subjective and most of all why would you be so upset against a kid of 9 years who wants to dunk all day with lebron, i have two little kids of 6 and 8 when they play i m not hungry against them because they don t play a perfect princetown or triangle offense, it s the way it is, it s a video game and kids play some time, you got too live with it.
i m not lucky enough to play osers cause i m from europe and the jetlag make it almost impossible for me, but my online ranked games have benn a very good experience at the end of the day this year.

The game is pure gold for me this year, offline as usaul is a blast, i have a lot of very good sim game online in ranked match.
I just learn to live with the cheesiness, but really i have less and less chesse or cheat game maybe because we re long time after launch but my online experience is good which is a first after 15 years of 2k.

**BellSKA** · 03-03-2015, 08:51 AM

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

This is a pretty good thread and I've been following it since it started, even chimed in. I wish I was shocked to see how many OSers feel there isn't some sort of ethics issues at play.

It also feels like some have felt the need to commandeer the OPs basic point and make it their own which has nothing to do with the original topic.

"Do not exploit game vulnerabilities or glitches."

Seems like plain English to me.

I also like how no one's broached my topic of the double dribble cheat/ exploit/ cheese/ vulnerability/ glitch...

I'm also not here to read your solicitations on how to counter a cheater. I've been playing video games since their inception and have figured out the work-arounds as well.

**Raindragon** · 03-03-2015, 12:38 PM

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

So many good ideas and posts on here I'm not going to quote them all. I will say that the very first post at the beginning is probably the reason for my answer as follows.I do not play online. I will not play the park, I do not like to spend more money on a $70 game then I already have. All that being said I don't play online anymore for the simple fact its not fun, I have tried a few times and if its supposed to be fun for all it sure is not when the other guys are not even following rules. I remember 1 guy that would stand down the court and get a long pass every time. I remember playing one guy who just fouled me every play, and yes I have played against the code breakers and lame folks who bend the glitches ie Tecmobowl style. It is not enjoyable. If and when I could ever find a group to play with then I might go online, but all this new age BS about cards and junk is just dumb in my book. I would much rather have a super in-depth league or gm mode and no mypark junk where if I don't buy coins I will never be good...Yah sorry you got me for $70 and if the kid wants a copy that's $120...Anyways of the box but I think that game developers tend to forget that its the 25-40 folks who are im guessing the majority of folks who play and buy games the 10-24's buy it but who do you think they get the money from lol.

**24ct** · 03-03-2015, 01:59 PM

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

Originally posted by steelers99_58_36

It's not cheating, just lack luster programming and laziness.

The number one problem. I mean I think some of us are smart enough to understand they can't fix everything and fixing zig zag may make something else even worse...

But sometimes I feel the 2K community does disregard SOME of our gripes with the way people play as 'just defend better' but things like the screening in the paint and the spin post up travel move is kind of out of out control. Even when you win games against people who CONSISTENTLY use exploits to gain advantages it's still extremely annoying having these issues be know and not being taken care of.

2k's not gonna patch this stuff now because it would proabably take a lot more programming and they're however many months into 2k16 so this is gonna be the theme for the park until next year.

There should be something done about people who are blatantly exploit the game tho. I don't mind even mind people "spam" hesitation dribbling and shooting all 2s. If they go in, good game, but using that with the box out exploit to possibly get every rebound turns those shots into probability shots and not skill shots.

By that I mean, everyone knows if I shoot 10 threes in this game back to back to back, no matter how my release is on those 10 shots there is a good chance 1 will go in. I've seen people make full court shots accidentally. I've made one. It's a problem with the shooting honestly. Yes timing is involved but it's alot more 'Im gonna make 1 three if I shoot 10 in a row" type game

Like the guy said though the main problem is disregard

**HowDareI** · 03-03-2015, 11:06 PM

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

I'm glad some people seem to be getting the gist of my message.

Is 2K going to fix these problems?
No, probably not.

Is it to the point where it's unbeatable?
No, as said, there's things to do to beat this stuff.

Is it fair to people who play the game straight?
No, it's not.

Which is my whole point: they're gaining an unfair advantage through exploits. Meaning if you try and play a fair game against them you'll probably lose.
For the most part you have to counter this arcade, cheese mentality with more of the same. It's not what I want to do, but at the end of the day it's what I have to do to even win.

**xfhgfgh** · 03-04-2015, 12:49 AM

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

i have completely ignored online this year. i played about 5 games online and said screw this. im having much more fun doing myleague

**KehliahoMauiFootball** · 03-04-2015, 03:07 AM

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

How bout a Cheese Badge that you can earn? haha. Of course that'd be highly subjective on what is cheese and what isn't. But it'd be nice to see some advanced stats or VIP on players at the Park so you can try to get a better glimpse of what type of player some random player is.

**Yesh2kdone** · 03-04-2015, 04:11 AM

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

I just always message any of the side to siders if my team wins (looks like sour grapes if you do it after a L) and write "left right left right left right"

**wiserbk** · 03-04-2015, 08:00 AM

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

A good gauge to see if something really is a cheese is to try to use it against CPU. The cpu is using the exact same systems and controls as us, except their shot contest has been nerfed to encourage people to play on ball defense. If it doesn't work on cpu it should let work on us. Fact is, most are defending these tactics wrong and are calling it cheese. People online will always exploit your weakness rather than try something more complicated. Rather than cheese, it's actually more sim than anything. As long as they are not taking advantage of a system that is broken, exploiting your weakness is a SIM play. Now we can all cry and blame 2K for our decencies or puff out chest out and say that it is not an issue to counter (even though the vitriol of this post proves that it is) or we can help each other and share tips to overcome it and get better. First option will get the game nerfed to make it easier for us, latter option will actually force us to get better. But I guess even "sim" players want the easy route .Meh. My only problem with this thread is how it's phrased, why is it okay to cheat? There is no cheating going on. If it was titled why do I have to play unskilled idiots who used unskilled tactics that I can easily counter will my superior skill and mastery of controls than I would never have responded.

**jaateloauto** · 03-04-2015, 08:17 AM

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

Originally posted by HowDareI

Basically what I'm getting at is:
the 3 point corner stepbacks
the zig zag (despite being "patched") still working
the online delay seeming to effect all my shots but not on the other side
the spamming of dribble moves
baseline driving
screening in the paint
etc.

These are all EXPLOITS.

None of these are cheats, nor exploits.

They're all part of why the online experience is abysmal, sure. But they're still just imbalances that are up to the developer of the game to fix.

There's no reason to expect for random people who own the game to play it like you vision it. They're doing what works for them, and it's up to the game to make sure the most effective way of playing looks like basketball.

**tbentley** · 03-04-2015, 11:08 AM

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

Gonna be a long post.

Only few bother me and I have easy solutions to fix them now.

7ft SF
Solution:

In the Park and Rec, make each position have a default height and default wing span. I would say 6'3 pg, 6'6 SG, 6'8 SF, 6'10 PF, 7'0 C. This would make loading characters faster and decrease the load on 2k servers. This would make the game more about badges and attributes.

Or they could let us edit our height, wingspan and position on the park/Rec and fix it in next year. 7FT SF cheese would be stop by everyone playing as a 7FT SF. LOL

Screening/Out of bonus for Rebound

Solution:

Screen button doesn't work in the paint area or while your out of bound.

Offensive player are not allow to freely go out of bounds or behind the basket in the Park and Rec.

Really the rebounding attribute should be change to something like Intangibles. Intangibles would be a things like ball awareness, rebounding IQ, box out, hands, screen effectiveness, off ball movement skill/speed. This would lead to more diverse characters.

Also if you are not looking at the basket on a rebound attempt your rebounding stats should be lowered.
If you are boxing some on out your rebounding attributes should be increased.

Baseline Drives/ Shooting

Solution:

Baseline doesn't really bother me that much if you have a good team. But those one/two hand reverse needs to be removed from the park/rec. It doesn't even look real when it occurs. Better yet get rid of all baseline dunk package for mypark/rec play and make them reverse layup animations.

Dribble Moves/Zig Zag

Solution:

Zig Zag and spamming dribble moves doesn't really bother me. My biggest tip for defending this is to make sure in your control settings you have defense assist strength at 0 so you have full control of your defender. On defense, do not hold turbo only use it when you need to move faster. Anticipate where he is going and use intense D to bump him when you meet him there.

But an easy fix for this is to create a dribble effects stamina threshold. I would say if a player does more than 3 dribble moves with the ball in there hand, additional dribble moves should begin to decrease their stamina. Or they could just make all dribble moves effect your stamina.

I think these changes would fix 90% of the issues in mypark and rec and I don’t see why these changes would be hard to put into NBA 2k15
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Why is it "okay" to cheat?

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