Twitter Rage Reveals 2k Direction on Online Leagues

[The 24th Letter]

Twitter Rage Reveals 2k Direction on Online Leagues

Props to a amedawg for taking some initiative man, can't wait to get on board and support the movement when it begins.

Rashidi doesn't need me to speak on his behalf, but the whole '2k defender' narrative is so silly, especially if you've been around these parts (or the 2k community in general) for a while....funny thing is, he's not even 'defending' 2k of anything.

[Coach2K]

Re: Twitter Rage Reveals 2k Direction on Online Leagues

Props to a amedawg for taking some initiative man, can't wait to get on board and support the movement when it begins.

Rashidi doesn't need me to speak on his behalf, but the whole '2k defender' narrative is so silly, especially if you've been around these parts (or the 2k community in general) for a while....funny thing is, he's not even 'defending' 2k of anything.

Let's hope it helps.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dolomite]

Re: Twitter Rage Reveals 2k Direction on Online Leagues

Hello Biggieruth,
Both Evolve and WWE 2K15 are run on different servers than NBA 2K15. Because NBA relies so heavily on servers, they are handled differently from our other games. I am not surprised that the other games work fine, to be completely honest with you. Based on our ongoing conversation, I am certain that the issue is related to the NBA 2K15 server only.
Unfortunately I still have no possible solutions for you as the problem has yet to be found and fixed.
Best regards,

2K Support
I just put information out for the people too come too a conclusion.

[JerzeyReign]

Re: Twitter Rage Reveals 2k Direction on Online Leagues

Hello Biggieruth,
Both Evolve and WWE 2K15 are run on different servers than NBA 2K15. Because NBA relies so heavily on servers, they are handled differently from our other games. I am not surprised that the other games work fine, to be completely honest with you. Based on our ongoing conversation, I am certain that the issue is related to the NBA 2K15 server only.
Unfortunately I still have no possible solutions for you as the problem has yet to be found and fixed.
Best regards,

2K Support
I just put information out for the people too come too a conclusion.

Maybe they should get rid of the VC system? Earn VC through that mode only or buy it from the PS/Xbox stores.

[Goffs]

Re: Twitter Rage Reveals 2k Direction on Online Leagues

This thread is entertaining...never thought I'd see the day where Rashidi being called a 2k defender. Lol

[amedawg00]

Re: Twitter Rage Reveals 2k Direction on Online Leagues

Hopefully the servers function better today and tonight after this maintenance.

[Ownal0t]

Re: Twitter Rage Reveals 2k Direction on Online Leagues

ME and my boys always used to do online leagues, and it was the most fun we had with 2k. we all for the first time had next gen systems for 2k15 and tried it again. and the first thing my boy said when i told him we couldnt do it was,

"How the **** do you go BACKWARDS in progress?"

like the servers being bad is one thing. but how bad are the OLS is a completely different story.

from being on other forums, i know rashadi isnt a "2k defender", but it is quite funny to see him actually stick up for 2k ATM haha. this is a touchy subject and one 2k is allowing to be escalated by sweeping it under the rug. its really sad when 2k13 on 360 had both better servers and a better online league than the "Next Gen" 2ks <_< i would love to play that game, but.... 2k SHUT DOWN THE SERVERS <_< which makes this issue funnier.

[amedawg00]

Re: Twitter Rage Reveals 2k Direction on Online Leagues

If a tree falls down in the woods and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

Think about it.

With all due respect I think they hear the OL community loud and clear. Unless LD2K is spinning us with marketing platitudes. But as always, I will get the game 2 weeks in advance and see if the rhetoric is grounded in reality when 2k16 comes out and report back to the OL community. I don't agree with the twitter rage post by Levar, but they certainly "heard" the falling tree in this instance.

[jenesaispas]

Re: Twitter Rage Reveals 2k Direction on Online Leagues

I am all for people voicing their concerns in a constructive, productive manner.

I am banned from the 2K forums, am blocked by the 2K Twitter handle, and have been banned from OS before. As such, I'm pretty familiar with the distinction between the two methods.

Improving the game is all I care about, and I offered my informed suggestions on the direction to take things. It's clearly becoming personal for a few people since my name continues to get dropped. Bashing me won't fix the servers.

People voice their concerns in a constructive manner 24/7 to 2K support. Nothing gets solved. No one is above anger and frustration. The guy's tweets in question is simply somebody being fed up with being told that this is 'THE BEST SPORTS TITLE' blah blah blah, but yet when you give them bugs that span multiple titles, it SEEMS as though they ignore you. Especially since these same issues continue with each iteration released. If you've been blocked from all of these outlets, then you know that at some point, you reach a boiling point. He reached his. But just because he reached his boiling point does not mean that there isn't truth to the underlying message.


"It's clearly becoming personal for a few people since my name continues to get dropped. Bashing me won't fix the servers."

-- I don't necessarily know if this was in reference to my comment....but I'd suggest you take a step back. IF your name continues to get dropped, it may be for a reason ;-). With that said, I was merely stating what I observed over 15 pages of conversation. What others have to say about you, though, is btw you and them.

[HowDareI]

Re: Twitter Rage Reveals 2k Direction on Online Leagues

The Park is literally Crew 2.0.

That's ignorance and you know it.
5 on 5 with plays, timeouts, and strategies isn't even close to a 3 on 3 cheesefest.

2K continues to hire passionate people direct from this community. Yet they are losing touch with each passing year? Stop.

If anything 2K is increasingly intent on DEVELOPING the community further, which is evident from watching any episode of 2KTV.

You could say anyone here is passionate about the game. I guarantee if they hired me today, 2K16 would have some crazy features for park/crew/my career. And I'd be pushing the online leagues problems down their throat every day.

If you wanna play devil's advocate I can too, I'd say by taking away prominent members of our community they're silencing them too. You can't be critical of a game you're hired to defend publicly.

In years past there was a lot more back and forth with members of 2K and our community, now we only see them right before release and here and there posting sporadically about nothing...but My Team? That's talked about 24/7.
You can't tell me it's too hard to come to this forum/2K forum/twitter/etc for an hour or so a day and address problems and concerns....? Not just hype up random stuff us people who built 2K (not literally) could care less about.

All of the MyTeam material was done in advance, and is being released over a 52-week period. This is being done in an effort to keep people actively playing the game the entire year, instead of putting it down in April or June. If there's something new in 2K 365 days a year, then yeah, that's a pretty big deal compared to five years ago (much less ten) and the marketing department is going to treat it as such.

Yes, there is obviously some financial incentive there. Does this make this a bad addition to the game, simply because it's not focusing on your favorite unplayed mode?

Wasn't my intention, it was more along the lines of what I said up there. Stop taking time to talk about it all day, and take a little time to talk to people who care about the actual game.
People are right when they say actual problems go ignored because the only replies I see are for My Team or Ronnie deflecting everything about the servers.
There's issues that we don't even know exist to the devs because we never get clear answers...it can't be that hard. If you have guys in touch with the community the #1 priority should be finding out how to improve/fix your game with the people who play it most, then worry about how to make all that extra money off VC.

As of this current moment there are 186 surfing this forum. 23 members (people with login accounts, like you and I) and 163 guests (unregistered lurkers). The "vocal minority" make up 12% of the forum traffic. 23 members active right now, for a game that's sold roughly 10 million copies.

Crying about 2K operating like any sensible business and taking care of the interests of it's "Casual" user base is completely illogical. You are coming strictly from an emotional place if you think they differ from any other major video game company on this planet. You paid the same amount of money as the other 9,999,000 people who don't visit these forums.

Okay but without anyone passionate about the game "crying" we'll get nothing but My Team updates in 2K16..I'm sure you'd all enjoy that. Why would anyone not try and be vocal about things that have gone unchanged for years or since release?
It might not change anything but it lets them know we still care.

All anyone does here is cry about VC monetization. 2K Sports are not banksters ripping people off, foreclosing homes and lining their pockets with undeserved bonuses. They are pumping this revenue right back into the game and it's evolution over this 3-year period is blatantly evident... unlike a certain football game which has similar sales numbers over a ten-year period yet has been the same game over that stretch.

I'm sure 2K doesn't need money from VC to fund their game. To me 2K has had the better game for years and VC only came into play in 2K13 after Live was already gone.

And there's videos about "ripping people off" on youtube. You can't possibly get enough My Team points for the packs/players they keep advertising without no lifing the mode or buying VC. It's not a ripoff but it's blatantly obvious that modes nothing but for money. Can't even play a fair game unless you have 10 diamonds players and all that fancy stuff that cost a million mt points to buy...it's a joke.

I think you need a new word besides "crying", that's played out. In your opinion these things don't matter, but behind every complaint there's a reasonable argument to be made.

You keep talking about VC making them money? The servers are still bad. Can't make a league. Get dropped from games enough to make it an issue. Constant delay in park games. Etc.
Why don't they use that money to upgrade the servers?

No one here has ever said 2K doesn't deserve the money they make. They make a great game with buggy modes and spotty connection.

[jenesaispas]

Re: Twitter Rage Reveals 2k Direction on Online Leagues

That's ignorance and you know it.
5 on 5 with plays, timeouts, and strategies isn't even close to a 3 on 3 cheesefest.





You could say anyone here is passionate about the game. I guarantee if they hired me today, 2K16 would have some crazy features for park/crew/my career. And I'd be pushing the online leagues problems down their throat every day.

If you wanna play devil's advocate I can too, I'd say by taking away prominent members of our community they're silencing them too. You can't be critical of a game you're hired to defend publicly.

In years past there was a lot more back and forth with members of 2K and our community, now we only see them right before release and here and there posting sporadically about nothing...but My Team? That's talked about 24/7.
You can't tell me it's too hard to come to this forum/2K forum/twitter/etc for an hour or so a day and address problems and concerns....? Not just hype up random stuff us people who built 2K (not literally) could care less about.





Wasn't my intention, it was more along the lines of what I said up there. Stop taking time to talk about it all day, and take a little time to talk to people who care about the actual game.
People are right when they say actual problems go ignored because the only replies I see are for My Team or Ronnie deflecting everything about the servers.
There's issues that we don't even know exist to the devs because we never get clear answers...it can't be that hard. If you have guys in touch with the community the #1 priority should be finding out how to improve/fix your game with the people who play it most, then worry about how to make all that extra money off VC.





Okay but without anyone passionate about the game "crying" we'll get nothing but My Team updates in 2K16..I'm sure you'd all enjoy that. Why would anyone not try and be vocal about things that have gone unchanged for years or since release?
It might not change anything but it lets them know we still care.



I'm sure 2K doesn't need money from VC to fund their game. To me 2K has had the better game for years and VC only came into play in 2K13 after Live was already gone.

And there's videos about "ripping people off" on youtube. You can't possibly get enough My Team points for the packs/players they keep advertising without no lifing the mode or buying VC. It's not a ripoff but it's blatantly obvious that modes nothing but for money. Can't even play a fair game unless you have 10 diamonds players and all that fancy stuff that cost a million mt points to buy...it's a joke.

I think you need a new word besides "crying", that's played out. In your opinion these things don't matter, but behind every complaint there's a reasonable argument to be made.

You keep talking about VC making them money? The servers are still bad. Can't make a league. Get dropped from games enough to make it an issue. Constant delay in park games. Etc.
Why don't they use that money to upgrade the servers?

No one here has ever said 2K doesn't deserve the money they make. They make a great game with buggy modes and spotty connection.

I simply find it hard to disagree with anything being said here.

[RevivedZack]

Re: Twitter Rage Reveals 2k Direction on Online Leagues

We need a poll

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Twitter Rage Reveals 2k Direction on Online Leagues

You could say anyone here is passionate about the game. I guarantee if they hired me today, 2K16 would have some crazy features for park/crew/my career.

Yeah, no. That's not how the development process works. One person doesn't walk in and get 100% creative control.

And I'd be pushing the online leagues problems down their throat every day.

These kinda claims aren't realistic (nor would they make you a realistic candidate for a TEAM production). Do you think Czar is not an OL advocate? There are many things that get implemented each year, which leaves a finite amount of TIME for lower priority features. Are you going to pout when/if you don't get your way regarding a feature/mode, or are you going to suck it up and do the job that's asked of you?

I mean, do you go around your current job shoving ideas down people's throats? How would you react if that happened to you?

If you wanna play devil's advocate I can too, I'd say by taking away prominent members of our community they're silencing them too. You can't be critical of a game you're hired to defend publicly.

Czar and Scott continue to do a weekly vlogcast. Conversely, when Scott worked for a different video game company he was not allowed to participate at all and was forced to take down his personal website as terms of his employment. 2K is not silencing anyone.

They are restricted in WHAT they are allowed to talk about (for instance, they are not allowed to discuss upcoming features or planned fixes in upcoming titles), but SILENCED? Spare us the paranoia.

In years past there was a lot more back and forth with members of 2K and our community

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ebounding.html
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...r-numbers.html
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...hot-meter.html

As Czar has mentioned time and again on the Hangouts, these topics mean the dev team is usually deadlocked on something and are looking for fan feedback to make a decision.

Leftos frequently posts, Mike Stauffer has his own daily blog on the damn site and likewise frequently responds. This goes well beyond LD2K posting news and clarifying things during marketing season (September). Open your eyes and ears, the devs are here, and significantly more active than there were 5-10 years ago... which is primarily because they started here first.

....now we only see them right before release and here and there posting sporadically about nothing...but My Team? That's talked about 24/7

Again.... this is a MAJOR mode in the game and was clearly pre-planned to be pushed throughout the calendar year (one that also NEEDS to earn money to justify player licensing costs).

Wasn't my intention, it was more along the lines of what I said up there. Stop taking time to talk about it all day, and take a little time to talk to people who care about the actual game.

Is there an actual game company out there that does this? Or are you just inventing your own precedent? It's frankly not in the company's best interest to be 100% transparent. They are a business in competition with other game companies after all. Just like I'm a supposed "2K Defender", let's just say the competition has some marks out there who would try to take advantage of a complete open-door/window policy.

People are right when they say actual problems go ignored because the only replies I see are for My Team or Ronnie deflecting everything about the servers.

Do you think Ronnie knows what a server looks like, much less how one works?
He is not a developer. He is not a programmer. He is the face of the marketing department, whose job is to sell as many copies of the game as possible. It's pretty clearly his job is to paint the game in as positive a light as possible. If you really think his twitter handle is supposed to be the central hub of open server discussion then I don't know what to tell you.

Further, for example, do you think Capcom and their marketing reps responds to comments about how Resident Evil's controls suck? What company (video game or otherwise) focuses on their negative attributes when selling a product???? The way you are expecting 2K to? LOL

The guys at 2K know there are server issues. Saying the servers suck doesn't solve anything, nor is it particularly professional towards the guys whose job it is to maintain them. Contrary to what 2K fans would like to believe, those guys work just as hard as anyone in the company and surely have their own restrictions that stem from this being a small company that grew much faster than it's infrastructure could probably handle.

There's issues that we don't even know exist to the devs because we never get clear answers

Just a hunch - there probably isn't one.

...it can't be that hard. If you have guys in touch with the community the #1 priority should be finding out how to improve/fix your game with the people who play it most, then worry about how to make all that extra money off VC.

.....Yeah I'm sure that's what your government is concerned with, helping the community and not getting your tax dollars. 2K is in business, not charity. They have shareholders. They answer to Take-Two. If they help the community, it's so they can make more money. This doesn't make them villainous, greedy, lazy, or morally corrupt. A little pragmatism will go a long way.

I'm sure 2K doesn't need money from VC to fund their game. To me 2K has had the better game for years and VC only came into play in 2K13 after Live was already gone.

2K14 was a completely new game with it's own engine specifically for next-gen. Normally sports games are terrible for the first two cycles of a new system. 2K15 is in year-two of next-gen and it's widely heralded as the best sports game EVER. If you think game sales alone covered that, then you're pretty clearly already made up your mind.

And there's videos about "ripping people off" on youtube. You can't possibly get enough My Team points for the packs/players they keep advertising without no lifing the mode or buying VC. It's not a ripoff but it's blatantly obvious that modes nothing but for money. Can't even play a fair game unless you have 10 diamonds players and all that fancy stuff that cost a million mt points to buy...it's a joke.

The bigger issue with MyTeam pertains to "balance" pertaining to mode (RttP) and players (subpar correlation between ratings and badges).

The game jumps from 6th seed (3 Gold restriction) to 5th seed (no restrictions) which does a very poor job of taking a player up the ladder (instead it should jump to 5 golds, then maybe 8). My record in the 6th seed is something like 20-5, while my record in the 5th seed is probably 5-20. There is no difference between the 5th and 1st seeds beyond how many games you need to win, which is poor design.

Also, newsflash

It's not a ripoff but it's blatantly obvious that modes nothing but for money.

NBA 2K15 is made blatantly for money. Welcome to the real world, enjoy your stay. Other games have DLC for content already on disc, other titles sell SEASON PASSES for all their DLC, but yeah let's freak over something completely optional to playing the game. I haven't spent a dime on VC this year, nor is there any need to in order to fully enjoy the game.

I think you need a new word besides "crying", that's played out.

You'll need to find another one besides "VC" then.

In your opinion these things don't matter, but behind every complaint there's a reasonable argument to be made.

In my opinion these things "matter" as does everything else in the game. PRIORITY is our key-word of the day.

You keep talking about VC making them money?

This is your 5th time using "VC" in your post. Is it really me bringing this up?

The servers are still bad. Can't make a league. Get dropped from games enough to make it an issue. Constant delay in park games. Etc.
Why don't they use that money to upgrade the servers?

They have. The servers are leagues better than they used to be, despite numerous expansions and a significantly larger user-base. You are focusing on one black mark to make a wide-generalization.

[HowDareI]

Re: Twitter Rage Reveals 2k Direction on Online Leagues

Yeah, no. That's not how the development process works. One person doesn't walk in and get 100% creative control.



These kinda claims aren't realistic (nor would they make you a realistic candidate for a TEAM production). Do you think Czar is not an OL advocate? There are many things that get implemented each year, which leaves a finite amount of TIME for lower priority features. Are you going to pout when/if you don't get your way regarding a feature/mode, or are you going to suck it up and do the job that's asked of you?

I mean, do you go around your current job shoving ideas down people's throats? How would you react if that happened to you?



Czar and Scott continue to do a weekly vlogcast. Conversely, when Scott worked for a different video game company he was not allowed to participate at all and was forced to take down his personal website as terms of his employment. 2K is not silencing anyone.

They are restricted in WHAT they are allowed to talk about (for instance, they are not allowed to discuss upcoming features or planned fixes in upcoming titles), but SILENCED? Spare us the paranoia.



http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ebounding.html
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...r-numbers.html
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...hot-meter.html

As Czar has mentioned time and again on the Hangouts, these topics mean the dev team is usually deadlocked on something and are looking for fan feedback to make a decision.

Leftos frequently posts, Mike Stauffer has his own daily blog on the damn site and likewise frequently responds. This goes well beyond LD2K posting news and clarifying things during marketing season (September). Open your eyes and ears, the devs are here, and significantly more active than there were 5-10 years ago... which is primarily because they started here first.



Again.... this is a MAJOR mode in the game and was clearly pre-planned to be pushed throughout the calendar year (one that also NEEDS to earn money to justify player licensing costs).





Is there an actual game company out there that does this? Or are you just inventing your own precedent? It's frankly not in the company's best interest to be 100% transparent. They are a business in competition with other game companies after all. Just like I'm a supposed "2K Defender", let's just say the competition has some marks out there who would try to take advantage of a complete open-door/window policy.



Do you think Ronnie knows what a server looks like, much less how one works?
He is not a developer. He is not a programmer. He is the face of the marketing department, whose job is to sell as many copies of the game as possible. It's pretty clearly his job is to paint the game in as positive a light as possible. If you really think his twitter handle is supposed to be the central hub of open server discussion then I don't know what to tell you.

Further, for example, do you think Capcom and their marketing reps responds to comments about how Resident Evil's controls suck? What company (video game or otherwise) focuses on their negative attributes when selling a product???? The way you are expecting 2K to? LOL

The guys at 2K know there are server issues. Saying the servers suck doesn't solve anything, nor is it particularly professional towards the guys whose job it is to maintain them. Contrary to what 2K fans would like to believe, those guys work just as hard as anyone in the company and surely have their own restrictions that stem from this being a small company that grew much faster than it's infrastructure could probably handle.



Just a hunch - there probably isn't one.



.....Yeah I'm sure that's what your government is concerned with, helping the community and not getting your tax dollars. 2K is in business, not charity. They have shareholders. They answer to Take-Two. If they help the community, it's so they can make more money. This doesn't make them villainous, greedy, lazy, or morally corrupt. A little pragmatism will go a long way.




2K14 was a completely new game with it's own engine specifically for next-gen. Normally sports games are terrible for the first two cycles of a new system. 2K15 is in year-two of next-gen and it's widely heralded as the best sports game EVER. If you think game sales alone covered that, then you're pretty clearly already made up your mind.



The bigger issue with MyTeam pertains to "balance" pertaining to mode (RttP) and players (subpar correlation between ratings and badges).

The game jumps from 6th seed (3 Gold restriction) to 5th seed (no restrictions) which does a very poor job of taking a player up the ladder (instead it should jump to 5 golds, then maybe 8). My record in the 6th seed is something like 20-5, while my record in the 5th seed is probably 5-20. There is no difference between the 5th and 1st seeds beyond how many games you need to win, which is poor design.

Also, newsflash


NBA 2K15 is made blatantly for money. Welcome to the real world, enjoy your stay. Other games have DLC for content already on disc, other titles sell SEASON PASSES for all their DLC, but yeah let's freak over something completely optional to playing the game. I haven't spent a dime on VC this year, nor is there any need to in order to fully enjoy the game.




You'll need to find another one besides "VC" then.





In my opinion these things "matter" as does everything else in the game. PRIORITY is our key-word of the day.



This is your 5th time using "VC" in your post. Is it really me bringing this up?



They have. The servers are leagues better than they used to be, despite numerous expansions and a significantly larger user-base. You are focusing on one black mark to make a wide-generalization.

There's no arguing with you; you're taking a completely different approach than other people and you're not going to look at any other vision.

First off you're over-analyzing an exaggeration I made. Never did I say I'd walk in and have control of the game, but there's no way if a higher-up in and said to fix online leagues it wouldn't happen. A patch just came out, and I'm on Xbox so I can't test but if I still can't join a league than this whole argument is void and shows they truly don't care about leagues.
and yes, I do go around in my job bouncing ideas back and forth to my supervisors because I have good ideas most of the time that help production, not only that but they actually listen. It's not good working conditions if your bosses act like Hitler.

Again, going past my point. Are they here in THESE THREADS addressing the issues on page 1 of the 2K basketball forum? That's where the majority of this community is, and likewise that's where most issues stay for a few weeks while people discuss them.

And I never said they didn't plan out My Team, they obviously knew you couldn't gain MT points without buying a ton of VC...that's a flawed mechanic in a mode that's not F2P considering we already paid full price for the game. They know they're making money this way and that's why it's not addressed. I stopped playing in the 5th seed because it's unbalanced...and if you buy VC for packs you can build a stacked team without any skill involved...

You're acting like it would be a bad thing for a "community manager" to come in here and let us know what's happening with bugs or concerns with their game. Or to even just let us know that the issues have been reported. Go on Twitter and see how many people are tweeting about issues that never get answered, the problem would be alleviated with one simple tweet letting the community know what's up.

You can't tell me they would lose money by engaging with the community over problems. We all know it's a business but if you're hired to be a community guy your job should be to talk to us at least. Even if things don't get patched we would know the devs at least know what's wrong.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Twitter Rage Reveals 2k Direction on Online Leagues

There's no arguing with you; you're taking a completely different approach than other people and you're not going to look at any other vision.

Having been a part of Czar's productions for 3 years and listening to his insights, along with my own personal interactions with developers, I have a fairly reasonable understanding and expectation of how the company works.

Which is why I have a completely different approach. My views are more nuanced and informed than "these guys make money off VC why can't they fix the important stuff".

Why doesn't a "community manager" post in a thread like this? As soon as someone hardheaded (as in, you or I) fundamentally disagrees with the steps the company is or isn't taking, it is a battle that they can't win. There are a lot of people out there who aren't interested in the truth, only their version of how they believe things should be.