NBA 2K15 Patch #4 Available Now, Primarily Addresses Shoe Issues

[Caelumfang]

Re: NBA 2K15 Patch #4 Available Now, Primarily Addresses Shoe Issues

Thank you, Beluba, for clarifying everything. I feel as if this is more in line with they way it should have been, so thank you and well done.

Much of the complaining online kinda shows me that some people aren't as good as they thought, letting terrible shooting mechanics/balance bail them out when they thought they were playing good defense when they weren't. While the cheese will always present an opportunity to always be a factor for bad players, I kinda feels like this helps balance it for good players who play great offense, where they can finally be rewarded instead of seeing who can build a brick mansion the fastest.

[jenesaispas]

Re: NBA 2K15 Patch #4 Available Now, Primarily Addresses Shoe Issues

To give some insight on the actual tuning that I made... here's essentially what happened.

The shot heuristics are pretty complex but at a basic level, pre-patch the numbers looked something like this for a decent shooter at mid-range:
Wide open = 45%
Fully Contested = 35%
Heavily Contested = 10%

That's why many people complained that "being open" didn't really matter much, and they were right. Post-patch, that same shooter is now:
Wide open = 60%
Fully Contested = 20%
Heavily Contested = 10%

So over the course of the game, assuming both teams shoot an even spread of open and contested jumpers, you should've seen zero change to your end of game shot percentages when comparing pre and post patch. But if you trend hard one way or the other (all your shots are open or all your shots are contested), you would've seen a very noticeable change. Now I also fixed the "glitched" shots being unable to get perfect release, so that will factor in as well.

But if both teams play solid defense, I can believe that a player might go 80% from the field from time to time, but it definitely shouldn't be the norm. Also, in case you're wondering, I didn't touch 3PT percentages at all, only layup, close and mid-range values.

From the feedback, it seems like head to head play is much closer to what I'm looking for in terms of making the game more fun and users are rewarded for getting high quality looks. But if you guys are torching the AI offline, you might have to do some slider tweaking for this year and get in Da Czar and OG's ears to ensure the AI puts up a better fight in 2K16.

I've got a bone to pick with whoever helps with AI. offensively, our players are stupid as hell when it comes to reacting to doubles and zones. the lack of rotations and dives to the basket, especially on pick and rolls/double teams, is soooo frustrating.


and then there's that whole trampoline missed dunk, missed layups, dunks affected by players contesting from under the rim, unrealistic blocked dunks, predicted alley-oops thing.......one step at a time though.

[tetoleetd]

Re: NBA 2K15 Patch #4 Available Now, Primarily Addresses Shoe Issues

This was exactly the problem offline. The CPU even on superstar/sim doesn't play perfect defense a lot. I never had any problems shooting the ball on shot timing. Even if I didn't get a perfect release, shots would go in. In fact, shot percentages were realistic for each player in my MyLeague. Specific player ratings actually meant something. Now guys with a 50 rating in mid range can look like LeBron from mid range post patch, and that is not an exaggeration.

On the other note, perhaps shooting needed to be adjusted online. However, offline and online are two different things. Just because one needed to be tweaked doesn't mean the other did too when you are facing the CPU.

completely agree. the game is a joke offline now. i went from getting realistic shooting percentages in low to mid 40's on myleague to shooting close to 60% every game....

sorry but thats not good Beluba. no matter how you try to slice it or dice it, thats just not a good look and its not realistic.

and i understand that you will just say "sliders".... but just so you know, ive been tinkering with the shooting sliders and i keep going lower and lower trying to find the right number to give me realistic results. at this point i dont know if i will find the right number because its still too easy.

[joosegoose]

Re: NBA 2K15 Patch #4 Available Now, Primarily Addresses Shoe Issues

To give some insight on the actual tuning that I made... here's essentially what happened.

The shot heuristics are pretty complex but at a basic level, pre-patch the numbers looked something like this for a decent shooter at mid-range:
Wide open = 45%
Fully Contested = 35%
Heavily Contested = 10%

That's why many people complained that "being open" didn't really matter much, and they were right. Post-patch, that same shooter is now:
Wide open = 60%
Fully Contested = 20%
Heavily Contested = 10%

So over the course of the game, assuming both teams shoot an even spread of open and contested jumpers, you should've seen zero change to your end of game shot percentages when comparing pre and post patch. But if you trend hard one way or the other (all your shots are open or all your shots are contested), you would've seen a very noticeable change. Now I also fixed the "glitched" shots being unable to get perfect release, so that will factor in as well.

But if both teams play solid defense, I can believe that a player might go 80% from the field from time to time, but it definitely shouldn't be the norm. Also, in case you're wondering, I didn't touch 3PT percentages at all, only layup, close and mid-range values.

From the feedback, it seems like head to head play is much closer to what I'm looking for in terms of making the game more fun and users are rewarded for getting high quality looks. But if you guys are torching the AI offline, you might have to do some slider tweaking for this year and get in Da Czar and OG's ears to ensure the AI puts up a better fight in 2K16.

Thanks for the explanation!

Quick question regarding 3 pointers (I know they weren't changed):

Disregarding hotzones and badges, do corner 3s go in at a higher clip than other 3s? Trying to figure out how much I should prioritize those.

[tetoleetd]

Re: NBA 2K15 Patch #4 Available Now, Primarily Addresses Shoe Issues

Beluba says 3 point shooting hasnt been changed.

well he may not have changed the success rate, but the fact that its now ridiculously easy to get good releases, it is in turn now easier to make threes.

since the patch ive been shooting over 50% from 3. before i would normally shoot in the high 30's.

and ive turned down the 3 point slider a little bit, still making them at a high rate.

this is what people dont seem to understand. you dont have to tinker with the success rate of the shots to make it easier to shoot. the fact that you messed with the releases has made it easy enough.

case in point is my three point shooting. you havent adjusted the success rate, but im still shooting over 10% better from 3 on average than i was before.

this is going to require another patch to perfect it or its going to require a major slider overhaul to fix it.

[coached17]

Re: NBA 2K15 Patch #4 Available Now, Primarily Addresses Shoe Issues

I don't even want to play this game no more online. 2K just can't balance a damn game. Everything is just 3pt cheesing now. Straight trash. It's like 2K said ef it put the sliders on casual cuz of all the whiny kids. The shot system was great the way it was.

Game is one-dimensional now.

I'm interested to know if you're playing on-ball or off-ball Defense?

And...being HONEST, are you a bad, average, or good defensive player?

[Beluba]

Re: NBA 2K15 Patch #4 Available Now, Primarily Addresses Shoe Issues

Thanks for the explanation!

Quick question regarding 3 pointers (I know they weren't changed):

Disregarding hotzones and badges, do corner 3s go in at a higher clip than other 3s? Trying to figure out how much I should prioritize those.

Corner 3s should be the same as others.

[PhiPsi1]

Re: NBA 2K15 Patch #4 Available Now, Primarily Addresses Shoe Issues

@Beluba -

Not sure your gonna see my post or have a chance to responsd, but it has become an overall consensus that particular players, most unfortunately being low post stars, are not getting offensive sets run through them at a realistic clip.

The most mentioned would be 'The Brow', Anthony Davis!

I'm wondering, why is this the case? Low post stars like Davis won't have sets called for them and the Pelicans become a perimeter-first team....Or worst of all seeing Davis back down in the post, get perfect position, and then pass out and defer....And mid-range...non existent for AD....

Would like to get your thoughts.

[coached17]

Re: NBA 2K15 Patch #4 Available Now, Primarily Addresses Shoe Issues

I really hope they don't sacrifice the online experience thats been created because of offline issues. That would suck.

I am guessing it won't take long for someone to figure out some slider tweaks for that.

A part of the problem is certainly CPU defensive AI. The CPU will play OFF of shooters below a certain 3PT rating. It's noticeable. Just watch how the CPU AI plays a guy like Tony Allen or Shaun Livingston.

But what is the "cutoff"? When I play MyTeam, the CPU defense plays OFF of Ron Harper who has a 70 Standing 3PT rating.

Because I watched him play for years in Cleveland and Chicago...and have used him in previous 2K games...I know his release. So I constantly had games with him where I'd shoot 3 of 4 or 4 for 5 on 3s. Most of them uncontested.

That was BEFORE the patch. After the patch, I'm not seeing anything different. That goes right in line with what Mike/Beluba posted here.

If the CPU defensive AI just didn't play so far off those guys...or an adjustment was made so to lower the "cutoff", I don't think you'd see, for example, guys like Pau and Solomon Hill being the best 3PT shooters on a team.

[bcruise]

Re: NBA 2K15 Patch #4 Available Now, Primarily Addresses Shoe Issues

@Beluba: Is it only the Human shot %'s that were tweaked and not the CPU's?

Thanks, and glad to see the game is still receiving support this far into the cycle.

[thedream2k13]

Re: NBA 2K15 Patch #4 Available Now, Primarily Addresses Shoe Issues

Thanks for the explanation!

Quick question regarding 3 pointers (I know they weren't changed):

Disregarding hotzones and badges, do corner 3s go in at a higher clip than other 3s? Trying to figure out how much I should prioritize those.

No corner doesn't mean higher %.

[JumpOffMang]

Re: NBA 2K15 Patch #4 Available Now, Primarily Addresses Shoe Issues

Can any ps4 users confirm that the patch has fixed 2k sharing of draft classes for new draft classes?

[LorenzoDC]

Re: NBA 2K15 Patch #4 Available Now, Primarily Addresses Shoe Issues

To give some insight on the actual tuning that I made... here's essentially what happened.

The shot heuristics are pretty complex but at a basic level, pre-patch the numbers looked something like this for a decent shooter at mid-range:
Wide open = 45%
Fully Contested = 35%
Heavily Contested = 10%

That's why many people complained that "being open" didn't really matter much, and they were right. Post-patch, that same shooter is now:
Wide open = 60%
Fully Contested = 20%
Heavily Contested = 10%

So over the course of the game, assuming both teams shoot an even spread of open and contested jumpers, you should've seen zero change to your end of game shot percentages when comparing pre and post patch. But if you trend hard one way or the other (all your shots are open or all your shots are contested), you would've seen a very noticeable change. Now I also fixed the "glitched" shots being unable to get perfect release, so that will factor in as well.

But if both teams play solid defense, I can believe that a player might go 80% from the field from time to time, but it definitely shouldn't be the norm. Also, in case you're wondering, I didn't touch 3PT percentages at all, only layup, close and mid-range values.

From the feedback, it seems like head to head play is much closer to what I'm looking for in terms of making the game more fun and users are rewarded for getting high quality looks. But if you guys are torching the AI offline, you might have to do some slider tweaking for this year and get in Da Czar and OG's ears to ensure the AI puts up a better fight in 2K16.

I'm on XB1, so I'll have to wait and see. I'm an offline MyLeague player, and it would be bittersweet and kinda surreal if the patch that adjusts for player progression/regression also make offline play madly unbalanced. Hopefully sliders can address it.

I haven't played the game in two months after having not one, but two multi year MyLeague files become corrupted during the transition to a new league year, with no ability to restore due to the way 2k limits the architecture with no local saves. What with all the extra work to deal with progression/regression, and the single point of failure no backups set up, I was done with the game, as much as I really like it overall.

This patch's potential fixes to progression/regression have me interested in maybe coming back again, but if the game is too unbalanced offline and can't be fixed well enough with sliders, then I won't bother. And if next year we still can't have backup file saves, either locally or in 2k's cloud, then I'll really have to think about whether I want to put all those hours in again just to lose my game files.

All of that said, I'm really glad the team is trying to make fixes to the game this late in the cycle. It is very much appreciated. I didn't expect it.

[stillfeelme]

Re: NBA 2K15 Patch #4 Available Now, Primarily Addresses Shoe Issues

Beluba says 3 point shooting hasnt been changed.

well he may not have changed the success rate, but the fact that its now ridiculously easy to get good releases, it is in turn now easier to make threes.

since the patch ive been shooting over 50% from 3. before i would normally shoot in the high 30's.

and ive turned down the 3 point slider a little bit, still making them at a high rate.

this is what people dont seem to understand. you dont have to tinker with the success rate of the shots to make it easier to shoot. the fact that you messed with the releases has made it easy enough.

case in point is my three point shooting. you havent adjusted the success rate, but im still shooting over 10% better from 3 on average than i was before.

this is going to require another patch to perfect it or its going to require a major slider overhaul to fix it.

Haha I don't think we are getting another patch. 2K usually stops at 3 and this is 4. Now I hope they can tune somethings though. I said this before in one of those glitched shots thread but I will say it again because I knew this would happen. If you are good with shot release timing meaning you know how to get a high amount of perfect releases I knew shooting would be ridiculously easy once all the glitched shots were fixed.

So Beluba fixed the shot releases and he also added an % increase for being open. The combination of those two would make it extremely easy to shoot and I don't even have the patch but I knew this would happen because I was able to raise my %'s just by fixing a team's "glitched" players.

2K16 recommendation

The shot system needs to be more like 2K14 where perfect release does not equal 100% success or 99%. They need some tweaks in the roster though. Your success should be controlled by limited to the % you shoot by stats combined with how close you can get to perfect release. So say you are a 50% from three when open that is the maximum you should get when you hit perfect green release. You shoot 35% when contested based off stats so when you are contested the maximum even with perfect is 35%.

I said this prior to 2K15 and they did manage to get some of into 2K15. They need to add a wide open rating, shoot off the dribbble rating and contested rating for shooting. That is the bare minimum. Contesting shots doesn't impact every player the same way. Example Kyle Korver shoots 54% when open from 3pt and 44% when contested tight. Curry 46% open, 40% contested tight. I do understand why they did what they did but I think they will have to tune the game to get it right or it will be a slider adjustment. I think this would be the best for 2K16

[thedream2k13]

Re: NBA 2K15 Patch #4 Available Now, Primarily Addresses Shoe Issues

Corner 3s should be the same as others.

I hope online hof/Sim level isn't ruined by thses changes. The skill difference between different people was clearly seen on that level