Would anyone else like to see a randomize potential option?

[dwayne12345]

Re: Would anyone else like to see a randomize potential option?

Is there a way next year to have the CPU GM's and Coaches be more accountable for how a player develops? (allowing for hiring and firing of GM's would be great too)

I mean as Jalen Rose always says on Grantland "The right player drafted to the wrong team can ruin someone's career."

Like Zach Lavine might become a star, but if he stays in Minny and the GM never gets rid of Kevin Martin, Shabazz Muhammad, and/or Rubio AND he sits behind Wiggins for ever that would stifle his progression.

If Anthony Bennett got drafted to San Antonio he might've developed into something great under the tutelage of Duncan and Pop. In Minnesota/Cleveland he's a borderline bust.

Maybe factoring team culture and GM decision making (including CPU accountability) could be cool.

As it stands right now 76ers are almost guaranteed to be a competitor in 4 years regardless of team decision making/culture.

[joosegoose]

Re: Would anyone else like to see a randomize potential option?

I really like the idea of potential range. But it could be described as 'Star', 'Role player' etc. And have it that stats and coaches with better grades impact the progression more. So a player that is 70 rated and described as potential All-star could have Pop as his coach and lot's of playing time and good stats so he went from 70 to, let's say, 74. And eventually he would become an all-star level player rated 85 or something like that. All-star would have a range from 79-85, for example. So this player maximized his potential because of the environment.

Also, if that same player started his career in a detrimental environment with guys like Sanders, Bynum etc and with lousy coach and he didn't play much he'd wouldn't even come close to the floor potential of all-star, which in this case is 79.

If none of the ideas are implemented, make it even more dynamic so that more players progress unexpectedly(Butler, Lance) or don't at all when they should've (Barnes, Beasley etc).

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Seeing something like the Star% model shown here would be so sexy in the game.

[Tybudd]

Re: Would anyone else like to see a randomize potential option?

Potential isn't static and changes from year to year. I've gone in depth about this in a roster thread too, but here goes again:

- For players that are young and still developing/progressing, Potential is the max they can potentially reach overall wise. It is not guaranteed, and injuries or not enough playing time can limit a player's progression, as well as the dice rolls to make each experience feel fresh and different (to an extent, we don't want the game doing crazy different things). If a player doesn't progress enough to maintain the possibility of reaching his potential overall at his peak, we will drop his potential to reflect that accordingly at the end of the season.

So let's say you have a player that starts at a 68 with a potential of 82. He's 22, so he still has time to get there. His team plays him a lot, he strayed away from injuries, he had a good year, the stars aligned for him to get a good dice roll, he develops at the max we would allow him: he's now at a (say) 71, with a potential of 82.

Let's say that same player played 10 games before going down for the season with a torn ACL, missing the rest. He spends most of the year in rehab, not being able to hone and practice his craft. Offseason progression can barely make up for all the lost time during the season, and he stays a 68 at the end of the year. It's mathematically impossible for him to be an 82 at his peak now, so his potential drops to a 78. If his stars align and the rest of his career goes well, he can still be a 78, but not an 82.

So potential is varied, and only reflects the max a player can achieve if all the factors that go into progression align just right.

- For players on the downward/regressing slope, potential simply reflects the best overall they ever achieved, and tells us how much of their skill they have lost over time due to age so that we can adjust their regression pace. Potential does not change for players past their peak; it's a read-only value that reflects something in the past, and unless you have a time machine (or go into Edit Player), their potential will stay the same.


Potential range is something we can discuss internally, it's not a terrible idea. But having a "randomize potential" on-off switch sounds like one of those options that's so niche that you can't really justify it making it into the game, when roster editing is allowed.

The question is, what are the actual Potential gaining age ranges, and at what age does the regression point start?

This is huge for us MyGM'ers that are trying to min max our trade options to know this, but it seems like its been kept a secret...

[CaseIH]

Re: Would anyone else like to see a randomize potential option?

Potential isn't static and changes from year to year. I've gone in depth about this in a roster thread too, but here goes again:

- For players that are young and still developing/progressing, Potential is the max they can potentially reach overall wise. It is not guaranteed, and injuries or not enough playing time can limit a player's progression, as well as the dice rolls to make each experience feel fresh and different (to an extent, we don't want the game doing crazy different things). If a player doesn't progress enough to maintain the possibility of reaching his potential overall at his peak, we will drop his potential to reflect that accordingly at the end of the season.

So let's say you have a player that starts at a 68 with a potential of 82. He's 22, so he still has time to get there. His team plays him a lot, he strayed away from injuries, he had a good year, the stars aligned for him to get a good dice roll, he develops at the max we would allow him: he's now at a (say) 71, with a potential of 82.

Let's say that same player played 10 games before going down for the season with a torn ACL, missing the rest. He spends most of the year in rehab, not being able to hone and practice his craft. Offseason progression can barely make up for all the lost time during the season, and he stays a 68 at the end of the year. It's mathematically impossible for him to be an 82 at his peak now, so his potential drops to a 78. If his stars align and the rest of his career goes well, he can still be a 78, but not an 82.

So potential is varied, and only reflects the max a player can achieve if all the factors that go into progression align just right.

- For players on the downward/regressing slope, potential simply reflects the best overall they ever achieved, and tells us how much of their skill they have lost over time due to age so that we can adjust their regression pace. Potential does not change for players past their peak; it's a read-only value that reflects something in the past, and unless you have a time machine (or go into Edit Player), their potential will stay the same.


Potential range is something we can discuss internally, it's not a terrible idea. But having a "randomize potential" on-off switch sounds like one of those options that's so niche that you can't really justify it making it into the game, when roster editing is allowed.

Didn't know this, thought it was the same or I assumed it was the same as it was in the old gen version. Really glad to hear this, and injuries or lack of playing time a guy can end up being a bust.


Thanks for clarifying this Leftos.

[Pandetta]

Re: Would anyone else like to see a randomize potential option?

The question is, what are the actual Potential gaining age ranges, and at what age does the regression point start?

This is huge for us MyGM'ers that are trying to min max our trade options to know this, but it seems like its been kept a secret...

This, a thousand times. The peak of the aging curve might be among the most important pieces of the puzzle for roster gurus.

[janmagn]

Re: Would anyone else like to see a randomize potential option?

And maybe like a time when he reaches his potential

[bballcreator]

Re: Would anyone else like to see a randomize potential option?

Seems a good idea, I like to give an opportunity to my 2nd round picks and this would help

[dwayne12345]

Re: Would anyone else like to see a randomize potential option?

The question is, what are the actual Potential gaining age ranges, and at what age does the regression point start?

This is huge for us MyGM'ers that are trying to min max our trade options to know this, but it seems like its been kept a secret...

This would be too much info. MyGM is already super easy. Don't need to make it easier by preventing me from ever making a bad acquisition.

[Vtownwaves]

Re: Would anyone else like to see a randomize potential option?

This is why I play my gm more than my league. With a good enough gm(sim through a bunch of franchises, like 10 years a piece), you can develop anyone, except someone too old. This adds a depth to the game that cant be achieved in my league by removing potential from the equation really. You can literally take ANY player, no matter the rating, and turn them into a star, with enough time. So when I play my gm, I only get the youngest players that never really develop or take too long(Bruno Caboclo, gianis before they started boosting him, same with mirotic) and I boost their progression through my gm badges.

Its become a hobby to take terrible(55overall) size freaks(always write down wing span, cant see it again after draft), and moving them down a position(IE 6'11 sf into sg)... Developing that person who's potential was supposed to be a 65 at best, into a guy after 2-3 years on my team now a 95 potential, can be a key contributor/star somewhere. This talent "didnt exist" before my gm made it possible. You get what you wanted from my league in my gm, if you use your powers for good instead of evil. One could just as easily horde the best talent and keep them on top of their game for 20 years. The higher the potential, the slower the descent, plus all the other boosts you've gained throughout your career...

[joosegoose]

Re: Would anyone else like to see a randomize potential option?

This is why I play my gm more than my league. With a good enough gm(sim through a bunch of franchises, like 10 years a piece), you can develop anyone, except someone too old. This adds a depth to the game that cant be achieved in my league by removing potential from the equation really. You can literally take ANY player, no matter the rating, and turn them into a star, with enough time. So when I play my gm, I only get the youngest players that never really develop or take too long(Bruno Caboclo, gianis before they started boosting him, same with mirotic) and I boost their progression through my gm badges.

Its become a hobby to take terrible(55overall) size freaks(always write down wing span, cant see it again after draft), and moving them down a position(IE 6'11 sf into sg)... Developing that person who's potential was supposed to be a 65 at best, into a guy after 2-3 years on my team now a 95 potential, can be a key contributor/star somewhere. This talent "didnt exist" before my gm made it possible. You get what you wanted from my league in my gm, if you use your powers for good instead of evil. One could just as easily horde the best talent and keep them on top of their game for 20 years. The higher the potential, the slower the descent, plus all the other boosts you've gained throughout your career...

You do realize you can accomplish that in MyLeague as well, right? You can edit anything about any player, at any time. You can take random scrubs from other teams and boost them however you want. It's actually much easier, if that's what you're into.

[24ct]

Re: Would anyone else like to see a randomize potential option?

No. This is worse than the attribute boxes. If I buy a game I want control. I don't want to have to generate a player based on random stuff. Not in a basketball game where those things mean a lot. You can't randomize a player's potential. Potential isn't really random.

Potential is essentially how consistent you play at a certain level. If you consistently out perform your peers. That's not a coicidence. It's not random. It's because you were better prepared to excel. Therefore people would content your potential is high because you have consitently performed above the competition. Potential is what is expected based on your previous achievements. IMO

I understand your assement of Whiteside but Truth be told it was like Rudy Golbert where he played in the D league. Whiteside and Golbert were drafted to do what they are doing now. It just takes some guys longer to get it. Doesn't mean people didn't potentially expect them to do these things. The main thing that should change is just because your potential is high doesn't mean you will perform well. It just means people expect you too. Im sure Pat Riely expected Whiteside to pan out. That's why he kept him on the team. If he didn't he would have just cut him like a lot of players end up being. Even with all his off court issues they kept him because they knew potentially he could have some big moments and he has.

[Comduklakis]

Re: Would anyone else like to see a randomize potential option?

Maybe an option to turn it on or off in the different modes? That would seem to satisfy both camps.

I personally like the idea of a potential range and the idea of players not realizing potential due to bad situations. But much like technicals and flagrants were left out for years, coding a particular team, city, or player (such as playing with a particularly selfish scorer or malcontent) is probably something the league would frown on.

But I would definitely like to see more randomization. It would be nice to see a couple 2nd rounders turn into Chandler Parsons, Paul Milsap, or Wes Mathews. It would be nice to see some first round busts like Darko or Chris Washburn or Michael Olokowandi. And I'd like to see some guys simply take their game to the next level like Jodie Meeks did with the Lakers last year or JJ Reddick did in Orlando. Not necessarily becoming superstars but after a couple years of not being real good, finding their games and becoming very servicable rotation players or even solid starters. And of course the occasional non-drafted free agent gem, e.g. Robert Covington.

MyLeague does seem somewhat scripted with the same young players reaching the same levels each time you play through a few years. You don't generally see someone fall off a cliff performance wise like a Danny Granger or a Gerald Wallace or a Ben Gordon unless they have severe injuries. While I can understand how some people wouldn't like having a player they invested in "randomly" have their game go south, I would. That is basketball (as a Pistons fan I've seen Darko, Ben Gordon, Charlie V., Josh Smith, Andre Drummond, so I know how guys can be worse or better than expected).

While I realize that 2k developers have limited time so they have to make choices, I think randomized potential of sorts (more so than what we see now, although I realize their system is designed to occasionally have guys not realize their potential) would be a great addition to a future version, particularly with an on/off feature for those who would be unhappy with this feature. I think the challenge would be that if you did do the "range of potential" option with somone having a 70-85 potential option, you would need two sets of roster data and possibly mess up editing options. But that kind of technical issue is beyond my pay grade.

That said, I would love to see the D-league return with a way to develop players, whether under the current system of potential, or under some of the more randomized options discussed in this thread.

[dwayne12345]

Re: Would anyone else like to see a randomize potential option?

Its become a hobby to take terrible(55overall) size freaks(always write down wing span, cant see it again after draft)

To see wingspan of NBA players after the draft go into Player Comparison. Go over a few tabs to where it has their height/weight. It has the real wingspan of every player as well as what team originally drafted them.

Sorry I don't have the game in front of me to say exactly where the player comparison tab is but it's there. I think it's the tab between front office and scouting.

You do realize you can accomplish that in MyLeague as well, right? You can edit anything about any player, at any time. You can take random scrubs from other teams and boost them however you want. It's actually much easier, if that's what you're into.

That's not what we're talking about above. That's just editing a player mid franchise which isn't something that players who want a challenge really like doing.

Building a winner should be difficult but in a sensible way. Injuries, chemistry issues, hiring the wrong coaching staff, Player getting overpaid in free agency by another team, player leaving a small market because they want to play in a bigger one (i.e. Indiana to L.A./NY), a player getting better than expected and forcing his way out to be the star of his own team (Hello Reggie Jackson). Those are the variables I want to keep the mode interesting.

I don't want to have to edit after I start the mode to achieve that level of drama for my franchise. However I do want the ability to edit before I start player's motives and EXPECTED potential if they are put in a great situation.

[CaseIH]

Re: Would anyone else like to see a randomize potential option?

This is why I play my gm more than my league. With a good enough gm(sim through a bunch of franchises, like 10 years a piece), you can develop anyone, except someone too old. This adds a depth to the game that cant be achieved in my league by removing potential from the equation really. You can literally take ANY player, no matter the rating, and turn them into a star, with enough time. So when I play my gm, I only get the youngest players that never really develop or take too long(Bruno Caboclo, gianis before they started boosting him, same with mirotic) and I boost their progression through my gm badges.

Its become a hobby to take terrible(55overall) size freaks(always write down wing span, cant see it again after draft), and moving them down a position(IE 6'11 sf into sg)... Developing that person who's potential was supposed to be a 65 at best, into a guy after 2-3 years on my team now a 95 potential, can be a key contributor/star somewhere. This talent "didnt exist" before my gm made it possible. You get what you wanted from my league in my gm, if you use your powers for good instead of evil. One could just as easily horde the best talent and keep them on top of their game for 20 years. The higher the potential, the slower the descent, plus all the other boosts you've gained throughout your career...

With training you should be able to do the same thing in My League, as long as he performs well, as it sounds like performance now means something.


I like the idea of GM mode, but I like to keep things realistic and that's impossible in My GM, so that's why I wont play it. If they allowed 30 team control in My GM so you could stop a stupid unrealistic trade along with being able to adjust a lineup for a team if need be, I would be all for playing My GM, as I like the idea that you can be fired from a team.


The 1 thing I hate about using 30 team control in My League is the fact that you have to do all trades for teams, where as on the old consoles you could do 30 team control, but set it so you didn't have to do everything for every team, and you could just manage the team you wanted to.


Unfortunately that's not possible so doing 30 team control in My GM makes it so you have to do everything for every team, but My GM only allows for 1 team control, so you ened up with stupid moves.


So only option for those like myself that want realism your only option is My League. While I love all the new additions to it over the old Association, I hope in the future they make it so using 30 team control you can set what you want to do for each team and what you want on auto, with the ability to play commish and nix trades like they have it now in My League.

[dwayne12345]

Re: Would anyone else like to see a randomize potential option?

With training you should be able to do the same thing in My League, as long as he performs well, as it sounds like performance now means something.


I like the idea of GM mode, but I like to keep things realistic and that's impossible in My GM, so that's why I wont play it. If they allowed 30 team control in My GM so you could stop a stupid unrealistic trade along with being able to adjust a lineup for a team if need be, I would be all for playing My GM, as I like the idea that you can be fired from a team.


The 1 thing I hate about using 30 team control in My League is the fact that you have to do all trades for teams, where as on the old consoles you could do 30 team control, but set it so you didn't have to do everything for every team, and you could just manage the team you wanted to.


Unfortunately that's not possible so doing 30 team control in My GM makes it so you have to do everything for every team, but My GM only allows for 1 team control, so you ened up with stupid moves.


So only option for those like myself that want realism your only option is My League. While I love all the new additions to it over the old Association, I hope in the future they make it so using 30 team control you can set what you want to do for each team and what you want on auto, with the ability to play commish and nix trades like they have it now in My League.

Why don't you just control 1 team in MyLeague? Then you can up the trade frequency and have the option to block trades on.