Concept: Offensive & Defensive Potential Ratings

[DC]

Currently, potential is just a general/broad rating. The rating doesn't tell us how a player will progress. It doesn't tell us which parts of their games will progress. Every player doesn't have both high defensive and offensive potential.

I look at Cauley-Stein and say he has HIGH defensive potential. I wouldn't say the same about his offensive side. I would hate to see him in Year 6 of MyTeam averaging 17 PPG because he has a semi-high potential rating.

I expect to see him close to 2.5 blocks per game and being able to guard 3 positions. But offensively, I don't expect him game to grow THAT much more.

Just wondering what people think of this because I feel they should be separated.

[vtcrb]

Re: Concept: Offensive & Defensive Potential Ratings

1000% agree. I feel the same with Okafor, i think he will develop solid on Offensive end, but I dont feel he will ever be a gamechanger on the Defensive End. But as you stated once you set Potential, you really DONT know which way they will go. I do give Cauley-Stein a few DEF Badges to point him in the Right Direction.

[saraviamateo]

Re: Concept: Offensive & Defensive Potential Ratings

I agree completely. In MyGM mode with the sixers I selected Okafor in the Draft and in two years he became a defensive force. I could let the guards attack the basket because I knew that he was going to alter every shot.

[ffaacc03]

Re: Concept: Offensive & Defensive Potential Ratings

Agreed. I would also like to see such a distinction for regression, like been able to set which physical or/and non physical attributes and tendencies are the most affected as time passes.

[threattonature]

Re: Concept: Offensive & Defensive Potential Ratings

That's actually a great idea. I'd almost like if they broke it down even more into potential for different categories such as interior versus perimeter defensive potential or the same on offense.

[joosegoose]

Re: Concept: Offensive & Defensive Potential Ratings

These are the kind of threads I love seeing--constructive ideas for improvement in the prospects/simulation/regression department.

It's clear that, in recent years, work has been put in by Leftos and the like to make the GM experience more realistic and immersive. That being said there is practically limitless potential (heh) for how nuanced and fun it can be. Love seeing ideas getting attention on OS.

This is one of many such ideas I could get behind.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Concept: Offensive & Defensive Potential Ratings

Currently, potential is just a general/broad rating. The rating doesn't tell us how a player will progress. It doesn't tell us which parts of their games will progress. Every player doesn't have both high defensive and offensive potential.

I look at Cauley-Stein and say he has HIGH defensive potential. I wouldn't say the same about his offensive side. I would hate to see him in Year 6 of MyTeam averaging 17 PPG because he has a semi-high potential rating.

I expect to see him close to 2.5 blocks per game and being able to guard 3 positions. But offensively, I don't expect him game to grow THAT much more.

Just wondering what people think of this because I feel they should be separated.

In the Cauley-Stein example I'm not seeing why two separate ratings would be necessary, given how the singular Potential rating works. He will have high defensive ratings and low offensive ratings by default. If his OVR starts at 75 and he caps at 85 then it's not as if his offensive growth will outweigh his defensive growth. He will follow a similar track to a Theo Ratliff or Andrew Bogut.

Yes, there might be some closet case scenarios, but these are ratings that need to be given out to 500-600 players. If 99% are going to have the same Off/Def rating then I don't see the point.

Not to mention athleticism ratings affect both sides of the ball. Would low offensive potential (i.e. on-ball scoring) restrict the growth of offensive rebounding? This is a nice idea in theory but let's wait for 2K to perfect the potential rating they already have rather than doubling down...

[DC]

Re: Concept: Offensive & Defensive Potential Ratings

In other words, you are telling me stop asking for new ratings because that would be more stuff for you to edit?

My bad

[vtcrb]

Re: Concept: Offensive & Defensive Potential Ratings

In other words, you are telling me stop asking for new ratings because that would be more stuff for you to edit?

My bad

Must not be a STAT he could use. LOL

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Concept: Offensive & Defensive Potential Ratings

In other words, you are telling me stop asking for new ratings because that would be more stuff for you to edit?

My bad

Adding a new attribute is something that 2K needs to edit and code. As such there needs to be a strong case/application for it.

A deeper explanation of what separates this from the regular potential rating in relation to current player growth/progression would be useful.

Must not be a STAT he could use. LOL

LOL I guess you're still mad that I didn't sign your Twitter petition. Hop off.

[FiskWilson]

Re: Concept: Offensive & Defensive Potential Ratings

Well I've already seen players in MyLeague/MyGM develop a certain way based on their default player style and training.

A defensive player's defensive attributes would improve faster than their offensive and etc.

Just change their training and they'll focus on those parts of their game.

[vtcrb]

Re: Concept: Offensive & Defensive Potential Ratings

Adding a new attribute is something that 2K needs to edit and code. As such there needs to be a strong case/application for it.

A deeper explanation of what separates this from the regular potential rating in relation to current player growth/progression would be useful.



LOL I guess you're still mad that I didn't sign your Twitter petition. Hop off.

No i just find it Funny IF an idea isnt yours on here you shoot it down. DC has a VALID topic so I wont derail it.

2k has asked for ways to improve 2k16 and this is a Solid Suggestion. Of course they will have New Attributes next year and this would just Add to the Depth. It would gives guys a way to Create the Next Ben Wallace, Dennis Rodman, Mark Eaton, etc.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Concept: Offensive & Defensive Potential Ratings

No i just find it Funny IF an idea isnt yours on here you shoot it down. DC has a VALID topic so I wont derail it.

1. I don't post my ideas on this forum.

2. Asking for more specific application =/= dismissing. Given his posted example it wouldn't make a significant difference, certainly not enough for 2K to spend time splitting and re-coding the attribute.

3. I am allowed to disagree with DC's opinion, and posted my own equally valid reasoning. I've never been one for herd mentality. A developer would ask the same questions if presented in this manner.

2k has asked for ways to improve 2k16 and this is a Solid Suggestion. Of course they will have New Attributes next year and this would just Add to the Depth. It would gives guys a way to Create the Next Ben Wallace, Dennis Rodman, Mark Eaton, etc.

You are missing the point that those players were already elite defensively when they entered the NBA and thus their defensive skills didn't develop at an exponentially higher rate than their offensive skills.

(Nor would I consider the GOAT rebounder, a 26-year old rookie drafted 72nd Overall, or an undrafted super-role player to be more than the corner case examples I am talking about. How does this apply to the other 5,000 NBA players that have come and gone over the last 30 years?)

Player progression/regression can certainly be re-worked, but the Potential rating is not specifically the issue.

[vtcrb]

Re: Concept: Offensive & Defensive Potential Ratings

1. I don't post my ideas on this forum.
2. Asking for more specific application =/= dismissing. Given his posted example it wouldn't make a significant difference, certainly not enough for 2K to spend time splitting and re-coding the attribute.



You are missing the point that those players were already elite defensively when they entered the NBA and thus their defensive skills didn't develop at an exponentially higher rate than their offensive skills.

Player progression/regression can certainly be re-worked, but the Potential rating is not specifically the issue.

I dont consider Anyone Elite when they come into the NBA. Now they were alot better on Defense than Offense, but still had room to grow. With 2k's system as is Yes they Could Progress to Elite Defensive Status, But All 3 could also turn into 15ppg scorers as well. If we had a Potential Rating for Both OFF and DEF it could lead to alot more Variance.

I would even be happy if you could have an Edit to where you could Assign a "Player Comparison". You could break it into 2 Categories. 1 would be the Level the player could reach Role Player, All Star , etc and the 2nd could be around 25-50 Player Comparisons to former NBA Players.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Concept: Offensive & Defensive Potential Ratings

I dont consider Anyone Elite when they come into the NBA.

That's nice to say but you just used three Defensive Players of the Year to make your argument.

Mark Eaton lead the league in Block rate his first three seasons in the league. He was All-Defensive 1st Team in his second season. Ironically enough his Block rate DECLINED each year rather than progress, which is a strike against him as an example..

Dennis Rodman was All-Defensive First team in his third season and guarded multiple positions right from the outset of his career.

Ben Wallace did not get any accolades in his first four seasons because he played on teams that could not support his offensive ineptitude (consequently, not enough MPG to get awards). It was clear from the outset that he was an elite defensive player, given the short list of players in NBA history with his Reb/Stl/Blk rates.

Now they were alot better on Defense than Offense, but still had room to grow.

There is nothing to suggest their defensive growth differed any from any other NBA player. A player who who starts at 85 Defensive Awareness and peaks at 95 did not experience anymore growth than a player who started at 50 and peaked at 60. You are only looking at narrow ELITE cases when the vast majority of players are NOT these cases.

Can you name a player from the 2014 draft class with high "defensive potential" that is currently a bad defensive player?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2014.html

This whole discussion is very narrow as a whole as it aims to simplify player progression by further tying it down to Potential, without actually understanding the nature of IRL player progression itself.

Is there anyone out there who thinks Elfrid Payton and Marcus Smart will be better offensive players than defensive players in their careers? Or that Doug McDermott will go from scorer to defensive stopper as his career goes on? This is case in point for why it's not inherently necessary.

With 2k's system as is Yes they Could Progress to Elite Defensive Status, But All 3 could also turn into 15ppg scorers as well. If we had a Potential Rating for Both OFF and DEF it could lead to alot more Variance.

Please sim a couple seasons with Nerlens Noel before you make these claims.