Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

[Shady Mike]

Re: Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

Like I said...I think this thread can be very useful and helpful to the devs and I don't want it to get caught up on such a trivial issue. Anybody who watches 5 minutes of a Cleveland Cavaliers game can tell who the damn point guard is and it ain't Kyrie Irving.

Anyways, I digress. Here we have yet ANOTHER example of this nonsense and this just shows how much the CPU Free Agency A.I. plays into this issue...check THIS out:



Like cmon...Rondo? Really? A John Wall/Rajon Rondo backcourt? I'm not even going to try to get into how THAT rotation would look...I think for me, right now the only solution will be a 30 team association :/

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

Bad comparison considering Gortat never started any season before (Round 2, Pick 27). Also, Rashard Lewis was the starting PF and he was without a doubt, the better player.

Gortat "never started" because he played on the same team as Howard, not because he wasn't good. Hence why the Magic gave this "career reserve" 5 years and 34 million, and why he has been a starter ever since getting traded.

Rashard Lewis and Marcin Gortat were pretty equal all things considered. Shard started because he offered something called SPACING that is needed to succeed in the current NBA. This isn't the 90s where teams can start two PFs next to their center.

As another mentioned, Omer Asik was a starter BEFORE Howard came along; would you mind giving us a refresher on how well their pairing went?

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

Anyways, I digress. Here we have yet ANOTHER example of this nonsense and this just shows how much the CPU Free Agency A.I. plays into this issue...check THIS out:



Like cmon...Rondo? Really? A John Wall/Rajon Rondo backcourt? I'm not even going to try to get into how THAT rotation would look...I think for me, right now the only solution will be a 30 team association :/

TBH I'm not sure why you keep posting pics from LAST-Gen when free agent logic has already been improved in NEXT-Gen.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

Been honest blufu you really agreed with what he said beside the last coment and even then, you two agree ... as he didnt ment to say that they all played the same role, but that they all played the same position.

Some will argue their own point if it doesn't come from their lips.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

Anybody who watches 5 minutes of a Cleveland Cavaliers game can tell who the damn point guard is and it ain't Kyrie Irving.

Pick & Roll Ball Handler
40% Kyrie
39% Price
30% Dellavedova
26% LeBron
26% Waiters
19% Shumpert
18% Smith

There's a funny thing about eyeballs...


Pick & Roll Ball Handler (Non-Point Guards; SFs in bold)
44% Monta Ellis (22nd)
41% Victor Oladipo (34th)
37% Gary Neal/CHA (55th)
36% Ben Gordon (57th)
35% Evan Turner (62nd)
35% Lance Stephenson (64th)
32% Jeremy Lamb (78th)
32% Louis Williams (80th)
31% Tyreke Evans (81st)
31% Brandon Knight/PHX (86th)
30% Manu Ginobili (90th)
30% Evan Fournier (94th)
30% Rodney Stuckey (95th)
29% Alec Burks (102nd)
29% Wayne Ellington (104th)
29% Dwyane Wade (106th)
29% Gordon Hayward (107th)
29% Gary Neal/MIN (108th)
28% Devin Harris (110th)
28% C.J. McCollum (112th)
28% Dion Waiters/OKC (113th)
27% Jamal Crawford (116th)
27% Eric Gordon (118th)
26% Goran Dragic/PHX (121st)
26% LeBron James (122nd)
26% Bradley Beal (123rd)
26% Dion Waiters/CLE (124th)
26% Nick Young (125th)
25% Will Barton/POR (128th)
25% James Harden (129th)
25% Kirk Hinrich (130th)
24% Rodney Hood (132nd)
24% Randy Foye (134th)
24% Langston Galloway (135th)
24% Gerald Henderson (136th)
23% E'Twaun Moore (139th)
23% Kobe Bryant (140th)
22% Tyler Johnson (141st)
22% Willie Green (142nd)
22% Vince Carter (143rd)
22% Troy Daniels (144th)
22% DeMar DeRozan (145th)
22% Kevin Durant (146th)
21% Joe Ingles (147th)
21% Rudy Gay (148th)
21% Joe Johnson (149th)
21% J.R. Smith/NYK (150th)

Sorry, but LeBron simply isn't the "primary" ball handler in Cleveland's lineup (though he does get the most touches). You can cherry pick videos of individual plays to your hearts content, but last I checked Isolations and POST UPS aren't where PGs get most of their touches (hence why 87 of the top 100 are PGs). You can't have your argument both ways.

[8KB24]

Re: Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

TBH I'm not sure why you keep posting pics from LAST-Gen when free agent logic has already been improved in NEXT-Gen.

that is next gen. that's 2k15 pc version

[Sam12345]

Re: Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

TBH I'm not sure why you keep posting pics from LAST-Gen when free agent logic has already been improved in NEXT-Gen.

Lol. What 'gen' are you on? What is the future like?

[BluFu]

Re: Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

Some will argue their own point if it doesn't come from their lips.

What's with the childish jabs? Maybe I just misinterpreted what you wrote? Let's have a mature discussion..

[Shady Mike]

Re: Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

TBH I'm not sure why you keep posting pics from LAST-Gen when free agent logic has already been improved in NEXT-Gen.

This is "Next-Gen"...(didn't know people were still throwing that phrase around considering the new consoles have been out 2 years now but okay).

Please share with me how amazing 2K is on XboxTWO and PS5...

[BluFu]

Re: Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

Pick & Roll Ball Handler
40% Kyrie
39% Price
30% Dellavedova
26% LeBron
26% Waiters
19% Shumpert
18% Smith

There's a funny thing about eyeballs...

Sorry, but LeBron simply isn't the "primary" ball handler in Cleveland's lineup (though he does get the most touches). You can cherry pick videos of individual plays to your hearts content, but last I checked Isolations and POST UPS aren't where PGs get most of their touches (hence why 87 of the top 100 are PGs). You can't have your argument both ways.

So the only plays a team runs consists of PnR? The percentage of PnR's the Cavs run would be a great stat to post along side this. I don't see how a player with the highest Ast % (13.6% ahead of Kyrie) and the highest assists per game by quite a margin (2.2 ahead of Kyrie) isn't the primary ball handler.

[vtcrb]

Re: Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

Let me help get this thread back on track from its detractors.

This would be a Great Addition and could really help with Rotations. I am going to link the thread on twitter.

[vtcrb]

Re: Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

So the only plays a team runs consists of PnR? The percentage of PnR's the Cavs run would be a great stat to post along side this. I don't see how a player with the highest Ast % (13.6% ahead of Kyrie) and the highest assists per game by quite a margin (2.2 ahead of Kyrie) isn't the primary ball handler.

You know PnR is ONLY play in basketball. LOL. I kid. I will admit Kyrie does take away from Lebron having the ball in his hands all the time, but i wouldnt call either the Primary Ball Handler.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

So the only plays a team runs consists of PnR? The percentage of PnR's the Cavs run would be a great stat to post along side this. I don't see how a player with the highest Ast % (13.6% ahead of Kyrie) and the highest assists per game by quite a margin (2.2 ahead of Kyrie) isn't the primary ball handler.

While Pick and Rolls are a good way to figure out who is leading the point of attack (reference point: Steve Nash was typically as high as 60%(!) w/ Phoenix), they are not the only way to generate an assist. Hence why Joakim Noah lead his team in assists last year.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

The percentage of PnR's the Cavs run would be a great stat to post along side this.

Cavaliers (Volume Rank)
ON-BALL
17.5% PnR Ball Handler (6th)
11.5% Isolation (1st)
8.5% Post-Up (16th)

OFF-BALL
18.6% Spot-Up (19th)
6.0% PnR Roll Man (21st)
2.9% Off-Screen (29th)
2.2% Hand-Off (28th)

OTHER
13.8% Transition (13th)
7.3% Cut (18th)
6.4% Misc (11th)
5.3% Putback (23rd)

The Cavaliers get more Iso's than everyone else and it isn't terribly close.
This is obviously a product of having LeBron James.

Isolation Volume (players w/ 100+ possessions)
26.7% Harden (1st)
26.0% LeBron (2nd)
24.3% Melo (3rd)
20.5% Kobe (7th)
18.7% Crawford (10th)
18.6% N.Young (11th)

Nobody should be arguing that any of these players is offensively a "point guard". Harden and Kobe lead their teams in assists as well, that is not a quantifying factor.

Point Guards
18.2% Carter-Williams/PHI (12th)
16.0% Jerryd Bayless (18th)
15.9% Kyrie Irving (19th)
15.8% Isaiah Thomas (20th)
15.3% Jeff Teague (23rd)
15.1% Chris Paul (25th)
15.0% Ty Lawson (26th)
13.2% Jordan Clarkson (29th)
13.1% Brandon Knight/MIL (30th)
13.0% Damian Lillard (31st)

Point Guards generally get more pick and rolls.
Wings generally get more Isolations.
There are basketball reasons behind this, irrespective of whether the player is the lead ball handler or not.

[BluFu]

Re: Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

While Pick and Rolls are a good way to figure out who is leading the point of attack (reference point: Steve Nash was typically as high as 60%(!) w/ Phoenix), they are not the only way to generate an assist. Hence why Joakim Noah lead his team in assists last year.

The Cavaliers get more Iso's than everyone else and it isn't terribly close.
This is obviously a product of having LeBron James.
...

Point Guards generally get more pick and rolls.
Wings generally get more Isolations.
There are basketball reasons behind this, irrespective of whether the player is the lead ball handler or not.

Again, I'm not entirely sure of the point you're trying to make.

Harden and Kobe lead their teams in assists as well, that is not a quantifying factor.

Harden has been the lone playmaker on the Rockets (at least until they traded for Prigioni) this season... that's not even debatable. The Lakers didn't have a real PG this year so Kobe took on that role in spurts.