What is cheese?

[primegamer]

Ok, I know everyone here is going to hate me, but I don't understand these terms certainly created by sore loosers.
In Call of duty, they have "camping".
In 2k, they have "cheese"
Now, I put up a lot of 3's. Don't really do the zig zag thing, but I do shoot a lot of 3's, and many call me a cheeser.
Isn't the point to WIN the game?
If you have 3 point shooters, that are actually making shots, are you NOT supposed to continue to shoot with them? Doesn't make sense to me!

Are the warriors "cheesers"? I guess it depends if you ask Lebrons fans or not hahaha.
You guys kill me though.

[2ksinceday1]

Re: What is cheese?

The absolute true definition of cheese in a video game is usually used by a person who can't stop something. So instead of admitting or giving props to the person who beat them, they yell cheese to make them self's feel good . The number 1 thing you need to remember is that this is a video game, but you will find people out there that take this s hit like its reality. Like dude go play some real fu king basketball. NBA Jam got more reality in it than NBA 2k If any thing you can call the developers cheesy for making the Defense so terrible that A simple zig zag can be used and the best defender on the game is left in quick sand. Warriors are the cheesiest team on the game because they are simply the best team on the game. See what I'm saying. I mean for God sakes they won the Championship. You are suppose to win with them.


At the end of the day if some one calls you cheesy, in there head they are really saying please let me win

[cherman24]

Re: What is cheese?

Cheese is when things should not work or be used in real life...like if there was a traveling glitch or if a center makes a ton of threes. It's harder to cheese in nba, but madden cheese is something like running goal line formations and audible out and the defense ai can't handle the switch.

[10]

Re: What is cheese?

The absolute true definition of cheese in a video game is usually used by a person who can't stop something. So instead of admitting or giving props to the person who beat them, they yell cheese to make them self's feel good . The number 1 thing you need to remember is that this is a video game, but you will find people out there that take this s hit like its reality. Like dude go play some real fu king basketball. NBA Jam got more reality in it than NBA 2k If any thing you can call the developers cheesy for making the Defense so terrible that A simple zig zag can be used and the best defender on the game is left in quick sand. Warriors are the cheesiest team on the game because they are simply the best team on the game. See what I'm saying. I mean for God sakes they won the Championship. You are suppose to win with them.


At the end of the day if some one calls you cheesy, in there head they are really saying please let me win

I'm sorry but the majority of this is dead wrong, especially the end. I think most people here have no problem with losing when their opponent plays fairly. Winning doesn't necessarily equal fun. It's irritating to try to play realistic basketball and lose to someone who shoots 35 threes in a 20 minute game because they go in at ridiculous percentages. If someone zig zags around the 3 point line, spams dribble moves or repeatedly attempts shots that the game doesn't allow you to defend I'm not going to give them props, anyone can pick up the controller and use exploits for a win it takes zero skill. When played correctly and not exploited for a win this game is incredibly fun and can have a fair amount of realistic outcomes.

[Shady Mike]

Re: What is cheese?

The first two posts here are...concerning to say the least.

[daveberg]

Re: What is cheese?

I stopped playing this game online years ago, because it IS a cheese fest.

The game is supposed to be a simulation of basketball, or as close of a representation of real basketball that you can get - if I'm playing against someone online who's running in circles, zig zagging, or constantly holding turbo and sizing up repeatedly or jacking up 40 3's a game, then how on EARTH is that a representation of proper basketball? What's the point in playing? The immersion is gone. The 'I just want to WIN by any means possible' attitude is what ruins the experience for gamers who actually want to play the game the way it was indented.

Everyone has the right to play how they wish, sure, but why buy a simulation basketball game only to play it the same way you would NBA Jam? That's like those tools who purchased WWE 2k, only to spend the ENTIRE match punching and kicking to get a cheap win instead of....oh, you know......WRESTLING????!!

Unless you play with trusted people who appreciate the beauty of the sport and play properly, this game is a sham online, always has been.

[da206gamer]

Re: What is cheese?

Cheese could mean a lot of things. For example when someone abuse an exploit like keep going for "money plays" because its unstoppable or overpowering in a game, that is considered cheesing. Cheese is not just a 2K term, its also for madden or any game in general, especially sports games. Another example of cheese is going for it on 4th down all the time in Madden is considered cheese in my books because teams go for it all the time in real life. Shooting 60+attempts with LeBron or Kobe is cheese. With all that said I hate cheesers.

[jersez]

Re: What is cheese?

Ok, I know everyone here is going to hate me, but I don't understand these terms certainly created by sore loosers.
In Call of duty, they have "camping".
In 2k, they have "cheese"
Now, I put up a lot of 3's. Don't really do the zig zag thing, but I do shoot a lot of 3's, and many call me a cheeser.
Isn't the point to WIN the game?
If you have 3 point shooters, that are actually making shots, are you NOT supposed to continue to shoot with them? Doesn't make sense to me!

Are the warriors "cheesers"? I guess it depends if you ask Lebrons fans or not hahaha.
You guys kill me though.

I feel old because the old OS forums this wouldn't even be asked but i digress. Cheese is simply abusing exploits, exploits are tactics or moves that a user simply can't defend. So the old spin dunk, the eurostep 3's in 2k13, zig zag cheese for the most part is cheese but it's not a guaranteed bucket like the previous cheese mentioned. 1-3-1 zone was cheese before being removed, up and unders, baseline exploits, running floppy, the list goes on and on with the examples of cheese that's been in the game.

Now you know the definition of cheese, the reason why people call you a cheeser is due to how you play(your play-style) most sim gamers they play in leagues which have a bunch of rules and they think those rules are basically the standards to which all nba 2k players should be held to, but most of the times those rules are placed to keep everyone in the league happy as the skill levels always varies and a guy who might get smack by 20 without the rules might only lose by 5 or 10 with the rules.

I haven't watched you play but it sounds like your playstyle is cheesy but if you're not using any exploits and that's just how you're playing i personally have no issue with you. i'm not a stickler on playstyles the reason being, as long as it's a way to beat you it's up to me to find it, can't do anything about exploits. People equate running plays to sim gaming which is true but i've seen a lot of people who claim sim just because they run one or two plays.

Regarding your question about "isn't the goal to win the game" yes that's the goal but how you go about winning should matter. Just like campers in first person shooters they may have a nice k/d ratio but when you see how they're getting it, it's no longer impressive.Anybody can cheese, but it takes skill to play in a sim fashion, to restrict yourself from abusing the game and still win is impressive. Out thinking your opponent is more rewarding than out cheesing them in my opinion.

btw the skill level in the sim nation varies so calling every sim gamer a sore loser is disrespectful to our community and our skill sets.

[da206gamer]

Re: What is cheese?

I feel old because the old OS forums this wouldn't even be asked but i digress. Cheese is simply abusing exploits, exploits are tactics or moves that a user simply can't defend. So the old spin dunk, the eurostep 3's in 2k13, zig zag cheese for the most part is cheese but it's not a guaranteed bucket like the previous cheese mentioned. 1-3-1 zone was cheese before being removed, up and unders, baseline exploits, running floppy, the list goes on and on with the examples of cheese that's been in the game.





Now you know the definition of cheese, the reason why people call you a cheeser is due to how you play(your play-style) most sim gamers they play in leagues which have a bunch of rules and they think those rules are basically the standards to which all nba 2k players should be held to, but most of the times those rules are placed to keep everyone in the league happy as the skill levels always varies and a guy who might get smack by 20 without the rules might only lose by 5 or 10 with the rules.





I haven't watched you play but it sounds like your playstyle is cheesy but if you're not using any exploits and that's just how you're playing i personally have no issue with you. i'm not a stickler on playstyles the reason being, as long as it's a way to beat you it's up to me to find it, can't do anything about exploits. People equate running plays to sim gaming which is true but i've seen a lot of people who claim sim just because they run one or two plays.





Regarding your question about "isn't the goal to win the game" yes that's the goal but how you go about winning should matter. Just like campers in first person shooters they may have a nice k/d ratio but when you see how they're getting it, it's no longer impressive.Anybody can cheese, but it takes skill to play in a sim fashion, to restrict yourself from abusing the game and still win is impressive. Out thinking your opponent is more rewarding than out cheesing them in my opinion.





btw the skill level in the sim nation varies so calling every sim gamer a sore loser is disrespectful to our community and our skill sets.

He nailed it. Impressive post and breakdown of "cheese" kudos bro.

[PandaPower2k]

Re: What is cheese?

In my book, it is cheese, if:

- It is unrealistically effective
- It exploits faulty game mechanics
- It is too easy to perform, compared to how difficult it is to counter
- It gives the user an unfair advantage over his opponent

Zig-zag cheese, turbo-baseline dunk cheese, fadeaway cheese, double team cheese, zone cheese all fit my criteria.

[bo.jangles344]

Re: What is cheese?

Can we just get this out of the way? Legend 2 day one flyer here. I've seen it all now. Been playing 2k since 2k8 and have been frequenting OS the last 3 iterations of this game and this year is absolutely the most frustrating.

Everyone is a cheeser. At some level we have stooped to our competitions level and tried to spam a move eventually, or have a goto move. Admit it. Playstyle is everything. My go to? I pass. Guess what? It's the most inefficient way to score on this game. I can get someone wide open looks all day with Max playmaking and dimer and it goes in about as much as it should. Around 40%. It's almost as if 2k REWARDS the off the bounce, contested shot.

I seriously challenge everyone to start stacking up the wide open looks to the contested shots you see. Even the cpu is like this. They don't hit open shots nearly as often as contested. So therefore, shooting contested jumpers is every sense of the word cheese. And everyone here has made them. So we're all cheesers, because you can't win in this build, as of patch 4 without it. I'm sorry, my stats are 4.12 ppg, 2 rbg, and almost 3.5 assists in almost 2,000 park games.

If passing were more effective and all my teammates hit their wide open shots most people would call me cheese.

The fact of the matter remains, if you can score well in 2k, everyone else can too. The problem is that people like me who actually want to have a team with role players needed to win as a unit, i can't beat you as often as i like because i don't practice the 3-4dribble moves and stepbacks that enable ME to score more.

If you have high point totals and nothing else, you aren't just a cheeser, you're probably an ******* with no friends too.

Cheers to all the guys who play team ball. Hopefully 2k will give us a game one day we can actually play the way we want.

I want to dunk on people, play defense, and pass. All if these things are so horrible compared to how well you Chuck the ball.

I've never been called cheese in my life, but watch next year defense make a come back. And when 2k finally puts an animation in this game that when you raise up I'm stealing the ball and going for 2 points or throwing an off the glass alley behind the back on 2 defenders, you can call me cheese then. I'll take it with a smile.

[itchyroll_51]

Re: What is cheese?

I am pass that stuff and I am only in it to play my ideal version of basketball. I want to score over 100 Pts per 100 Posessions and I want to defend my opponent to under 90 Pts per 100 Posessions. I aim to do this offline on HOF SIM and I aim to to this online on RTTP.

On Offense I will try to replicate NBA style attacks from the modern day era and the past. In Defense I am going to play like the 2011 Miami Heat. That's my style of play and I play to win every damn game. As long as the basketball looks beautiful to me I am gonna keep chugging along without worrying what anyone saids. 80% of the people that watches my stuff consider me as either sim or real and then 20% will tell me I am trash and complete cheese... There's no absolute, just play the game you feel is beautiful and comfortable for yourself.

I consider something cheese on 2K when after I do it I feel gross or dirty ^_^

Sam Pham

[MrWrestling3]

Re: What is cheese?

It seems to me that much of the time, when we refer to "cheese" it's more of a frustration with broken mechanics within the game or a perceived laziness or lack of proper testing on the part of the developers/testers than anything personal with a specific player.

The problem stems more from being a situation where mechanics are such that not only do some pretty unrealistic things happen, they work so well that it becomes the most efficient technique to employ. This in turns leads to a some what unrealistic and highly aggravating play style becoming the standard.

This is then further aggravated by "poor sport" personality types which unfortunately tend to be prevalent on the internet.

[TaylorBoi]

Re: What is cheese?

Can we just get this out of the way? Legend 2 day one flyer here. I've seen it all now. Been playing 2k since 2k8 and have been frequenting OS the last 3 iterations of this game and this year is absolutely the most frustrating.

Everyone is a cheeser. At some level we have stooped to our competitions level and tried to spam a move eventually, or have a goto move. Admit it. Playstyle is everything. My go to? I pass. Guess what? It's the most inefficient way to score on this game. I can get someone wide open looks all day with Max playmaking and dimer and it goes in about as much as it should. Around 40%. It's almost as if 2k REWARDS the off the bounce, contested shot.

I seriously challenge everyone to start stacking up the wide open looks to the contested shots you see. Even the cpu is like this. They don't hit open shots nearly as often as contested. So therefore, shooting contested jumpers is every sense of the word cheese. And everyone here has made them. So we're all cheesers, because you can't win in this build, as of patch 4 without it. I'm sorry, my stats are 4.12 ppg, 2 rbg, and almost 3.5 assists in almost 2,000 park games.

If passing were more effective and all my teammates hit their wide open shots most people would call me cheese.

The fact of the matter remains, if you can score well in 2k, everyone else can too. The problem is that people like me who actually want to have a team with role players needed to win as a unit, i can't beat you as often as i like because i don't practice the 3-4dribble moves and stepbacks that enable ME to score more.

If you have high point totals and nothing else, you aren't just a cheeser, you're probably an ******* with no friends too.

Cheers to all the guys who play team ball. Hopefully 2k will give us a game one day we can actually play the way we want.

I want to dunk on people, play defense, and pass. All if these things are so horrible compared to how well you Chuck the ball.

I've never been called cheese in my life, but watch next year defense make a come back. And when 2k finally puts an animation in this game that when you raise up I'm stealing the ball and going for 2 points or throwing an off the glass alley behind the back on 2 defenders, you can call me cheese then. I'll take it with a smile.

According to majority of the people on here if you're a 7' Small Forward you're considered a Cheeser or you're apart of the cheese community. If you wanna see prime examples of cheese just go to The Stage/High Rollers and you'll witness it first hand.

Regarding the post above I can't agree with some of the stuff you mentioned man. I'm a pass first type of guy and on average in MyPark I get about 7 dimes a game and in the Rec I'm usually between 13-17 dimes a game. Not everyone has a wet jumper and can make shots on a consistent basis even if they are wide open. People still struggle with Patch 4 for some reason. I don't see many hitting contested jumpers regularly either unless they miss 4 or 5 straight and 2K starts to feel generous. You definitely can win by facilitating. You really just gotta have a decent squad to do so.

You can't judge someone based on their averages. You may come across someone who averages 15-20+ a game. I wouldn't say the dude is a ball hog...Some people play Rec 90% of the time. I've played with people who have high PPG's and barely any rebounding or assist stats and they played team ball quite well. Occasionally you will come across the Kobe's out there though.

I will say this...if one of my teammates have a mismatch I totally encourage them to take the game over. I'll find ways to contribute otherwise whether it be rebounding, assist, or doing something on the defensive end. If your opponent can't stop you by all means keep exposing them. This may be looked at as being cheesy but oh well. I don't care much about scoring anyway. I'll take 20 assist over 20 points any day.

[Pokes404]

Re: What is cheese?

The things I consider cheese are the things that are truly impossible/nearly-impossible to stop. The spin dunk, euro step glitch, and overpowered up-and-unders from years past come to mind.

There are also some tactics that abuse game mechanics that are also pretty cheesy. Things like holding the screen button under the basket so you can't be blocked out on the offensive rebound and the backcourt charge (although this has been massively reduced this year). These are more like annoyances for me though.