What Exactly makes it where a player just walks off their man?

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Re: What Exactly makes it where a player just walks off their man?

I'd be fine with players that are tired or something having lapses in reaction to backdoor cuts, or getting caught in screens chasing guys like Redick. When its stuff like your teammate running to the paint to leave someone open for no apparent reason, its extremely frustrating, cuz no one has that terrible BBIQ in real life to leave your man completely open

[Black Bruce Wayne]

Re: What Exactly makes it where a player just walks off their man?

What's that for?

The video showed that defenders werent closing in on Serge Ibaka and on alot of the shots he was wide open, but people dont want this to happen in the game

[cablexdeadpool]

Re: What Exactly makes it where a player just walks off their man?

I agree with the bolded, and said as much...but you got too caught up in your 2k rant to take notice...we're talking basketball

No man, no NBA team denys every player on the perimeter for a full game [ESPECIALLY not GSW and ATL) because yes, you will get back doored to death....you mentioning that like its some kind of glitch that shouldnt happen contradicts what I agreed with...

If it was that easy to glue your self to everyone GSW would have gotten figured out a long time ago..

I am not talking about the Deny setting particularly, I am talking about playing tight perimeter in general defense and guarding the 3 point shot. Basketball teams in the playoffs do this against Hawks and Warriors all the time. Thunder did this the GSW very well and did not get backdoored to death. Matter of fact that only happened in one game. Guarding the 3 point line against a team that wants to jack up 3 pointers and only able to get in the paint consistently in the half court by using triangle backdoor action isn't hard.

Guarding the Hawks in a 7 game series isn't really hard. Getting off 3 point shots in the half court in the NBA is really difficult and in 2K it's easy because defenders will legit walk off their man off any pick and roll action or driving in the paint with someone like Lebron or Westbrook. Warriors and Hawks were shutdown offensively easily against good defensive teams that hugged the perimeter and dared the Hawks and Warriors to drive in the paint and the Hawks and Warriors couldn't.

2K does not allow proper perimeter defense whatsoever on a consistent basis. There is no setting that allows this, even the Deny is broken. Players will still leave their man on the Deny.

Defense in this game is complete trash and it is broken. The fact that we have to even turn off proper fundamental PNR defense settings and play pick and roll manually just to even have a chance at guarding a vanilla pick and roll is significant defensive AI problem.

My whole point is defensive settings in 2k do not work at all on a verifiable consistent basis.

There is the argument

"Well NBA teams mess up on defense all the time, you shouldn't be able to play good defense 100 percent of the time..."

and I am saying

"Yes you should be able to play good defense 100 percent of the time, if you know what you are doing. It should be on the user to beat you, not the computer deciding when the user beats you. You should not be moving players around like chess pieces to guard simple actions."

But I think we somewhat agree.

[phriscaul]

Re: What Exactly makes it where a player just walks off their man?

this thread is perfect. this has been happening since day 1 on this game. and no matter how many settings i customize, it never stops.


and how is nobody talking about how, on made baskets, when your guys get back on defense.....quite frequently they run off to god knows where and then have to scramble and recover when your opponent crosses half court and somebody usually ends up wide open. not always the trail PF. it could be the SF. the PG. whoever. you have to manually grab the guy and sprint back in place and by that time, the opponent is into his offense. this game is programmed so horribly that its not even fun to play anymore. i play myteam and spend hours working on building a great team only to have them play like this? bruh nah.

[ortize7]

Re: What Exactly makes it where a player just walks off their man?

Try setting the defense on that player to on-ball:tight and off-ball:deny. The closer you set your defenders to guard him the less they will come and help.

[lilteapot]

Re: What Exactly makes it where a player just walks off their man?

I wish we could change hedging options in my career since that's where most of my defensive issues have arisen from.

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[A6_Foul_Out]

Re: What Exactly makes it where a player just walks off their man?

Spoiler

Exactly!!! Every strategic or tactic has a weakness.
While your playing a hybrid zone (think Thibs vs LeBron James or a switching defense still isn't in thst isn't in the game yet.. The Switch settings don't even work.)

No one can tell what Durant does here is remotley good

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/4fRt-AFDxMU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

But we know why he's doing it. The "drive" causes the right block big to help. Which in the 3-2, makes sense.

Once the right block big commits to helping on the "drive", The right block big leaves his 3-2 designated area.

this forces somebody to pick up - KD, now takes over as the right block big.

Which, makes sense. in basketball, I'm giving up an open 3 over a layup.

In execution, this is stupid obviously.

[TheDuggler]

Re: What Exactly makes it where a player just walks off their man?

Spoiler

But we know why he's doing it. The "drive" causes the right block big to help. Which in the 3-2, makes sense.

Once the right block big commits to helping on the "drive", The right block big leaves his 3-2 designated area.

this forces somebody to pick up - KD, now takes over as the right block big.

Which, makes sense. in basketball, I'm giving up an open 3 over a layup.

In execution, this is stupid obviously.

Yeah but the problem is that there is nothing even close to a drive on this play. I think 2K has the defense reacting almost too quickly to things, not letting them play out and then adjusting. Instead, 2K has programmed the defenders to be very proactive (which is a good thing really) but a quirk somewhere in the AI is making them make extremely bad choices, like leaving a Curry open on the 3pt line. I don't think in the real NBA KD would even consider having to go help on a Quincy Acy drive from the top of the 3pt line

[jeebs9]

Re: What Exactly makes it where a player just walks off their man?

Yeah but the problem is that there is nothing even close to a drive on this play. I think 2K has the defense reacting almost too quickly to things, not letting them play out and then adjusting. Instead, 2K has programmed the defenders to be very proactive (which is a good thing really) but a quirk somewhere in the AI is making them make extremely bad choices, like leaving a Curry open on the 3pt line. I don't think in the real NBA KD would even consider having to go help on a Quincy Acy drive from the top of the 3pt line

Exactly. Some of the help defense is way over powering. If we were talking about bad defender leaving their man. I think I would agree. But KD leaving a shooter wide open. Is flat out stupid.

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[phriscaul]

Re: What Exactly makes it where a player just walks off their man?

Yeah but the problem is that there is nothing even close to a drive on this play. I think 2K has the defense reacting almost too quickly to things, not letting them play out and then adjusting. Instead, 2K has programmed the defenders to be very proactive (which is a good thing really) but a quirk somewhere in the AI is making them make extremely bad choices, like leaving a Curry open on the 3pt line. I don't think in the real NBA KD would even consider having to go help on a Quincy Acy drive from the top of the 3pt line

i'm all for being proactive. but in almost every case, the AI over-help. in real basketball, you show halfway so you can recover if need be. in 2K, not only do the rotate 100%, but they sometimes sprint over before the player has fully made their move and this is what really screws us lol.


what they need is a read and react system altogether, in the entire damn game. I'd rather see a guy rotate halfway, and stay on his toes waiting to see how the play develops and THAT inform how he defends the play than the full sprint rotate leaving the guy wide open.



another thing that i hate it this....when the big fully rotates, why doesnt the wing guy rotate to the other open player? in EVERY pro defensive scheme, you are taught to rotate as a team. so if a big rotates that far to protect the drive, then the next wing guy should rotate to the open man that the big left. and then the guard that was defending the drive rotates to the open man that the wing player left.

bball IQ is essential in these times lol

[nuckles2k2]

Re: What Exactly makes it where a player just walks off their man?

i'm all for being proactive. but in almost every case, the AI over-help. in real basketball, you show halfway so you can recover if need be. in 2K, not only do the rotate 100%, but they sometimes sprint over before the player has fully made their move and this is what really screws us lol.


what they need is a read and react system altogether, in the entire damn game. I'd rather see a guy rotate halfway, and stay on his toes waiting to see how the play develops and THAT inform how he defends the play than the full sprint rotate leaving the guy wide open.



another thing that i hate it this....when the big fully rotates, why doesnt the wing guy rotate to the other open player? in EVERY pro defensive scheme, you are taught to rotate as a team. so if a big rotates that far to protect the drive, then the next wing guy should rotate to the open man that the big left. and then the guard that was defending the drive rotates to the open man that the wing player left.

bball IQ is essential in these times lol

I agree man.

I wouldn't mind seeing late rotations in that last scenario you mentioned. That's where defensive awareness/IQ would come in. The better defenders understand the unit concept, & the weaker defenders act like every assignment is it's own island & they over-commit. I've watched it w/ Melo for years..

I would love to see guys not rotating, over-rotating, & rotating appropriately. Variety & accurate representation of what occurs on the court. Basically.. basketball.

I like the read & react idea too, but it seems like we're years away from that.. for some reason..

[Hustle Westbrook]

Re: What Exactly makes it where a player just walks off their man?

I don't what else to say here. I guess the answer to my question to this (even from last year) is that gamers do want NBA2K to have its own reality.

• Should Player defensive attributes matter?
• If defensive breakdowns are unnacceptable then why have individual defensive ratings?

If some of you want the defensive settings to always work, no matter what the team, or player rating, then maybe it should not be Sim?

I don't understand what you all want. It doesn't sound realistic to me, for every team and CPU teammate you play with to be the equivalent of the Bad Boy Pistons when in reality, that is not the case.

If we don't want ultimate realism then can we say that?

You have got to be trolling. You're purposely acting like people in this thread are asking for every teammate to be like prime Pippen and that's not what's going on. We want the basic fundamental aspects of defense that you learn back in elementary school to be respected.

Jeez even 2K would admit their defense is flawed.

[TheDuggler]

Re: What Exactly makes it where a player just walks off their man?

Basically what I want is there not to be several Shaqtin-a-fool worthy defensive plays from the CPU defenders every quarter

[hanzsomehanz]

Re: What Exactly makes it where a player just walks off their man?

i'm all for being proactive. but in almost every case, the AI over-help. in real basketball, you show halfway so you can recover if need be. in 2K, not only do the rotate 100%, but they sometimes sprint over before the player has fully made their move and this is what really screws us lol.


what they need is a read and react system altogether, in the entire damn game. I'd rather see a guy rotate halfway, and stay on his toes waiting to see how the play develops and THAT inform how he defends the play than the full sprint rotate leaving the guy wide open.

A legit read and react system 👍

This current help defens programing is not leveraging NBA team defense (basketball) AI LOGIC

Once we have help defense fundamentally addressed we can then start seeing meaningful differences inn help side effectiveness based on IQ - some sleepy and some alert.

How well the player recovers to close out or rushes out to assist a defender should also reveal their athleticism - some quick and some sluggish.

I rather see a legit system or no read and r3act system at all.. this current programming is not a legitimate read and react system. I want to be taken back believing, "okay, that was a legitimate help defense assist". Right now it's the same scripted asinine routine course of action.

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[phriscaul]

Re: What Exactly makes it where a player just walks off their man?

I agree man.

I wouldn't mind seeing late rotations in that last scenario you mentioned. That's where defensive awareness/IQ would come in. The better defenders understand the unit concept, & the weaker defenders act like every assignment is it's own island & they over-commit. I've watched it w/ Melo for years..

I would love to see guys not rotating, over-rotating, & rotating appropriately. Variety & accurate representation of what occurs on the court. Basically.. basketball.

I like the read & react idea too, but it seems like we're years away from that.. for some reason..

i think we're years away simply bc 2K ignores nuance to cater to the low-hanging fruit. or maybe they don't even understand the nuance at all, which is fine...but hire somebody that does(although i dont consider rotations and read&react, nuance). They focus on things like celebrations after dunks and Ronnie2K style sweaters for park smh.


example of nuance(offensive but albeit the same)....when you run a play or PnR, often, a big will end up wide open. A LOT of the time, they end up open behind the 3 pt line. now i play myteam and i use players from the 90s frequently(Karl Malone is my go-to). When you pass the ball to him on a fade or if he's open, he doesn't automatically step into his range so when you pass him the ball, he's in a high % scoring opportunity for his skillset......he sits his *** at the 3-pt line and you have to manually do it and by that time, the opportunity is gone. smh.

another example of nuance....i'd LOVE some sort of footwork technology added to the game. All of us have had to manually close out on a defender and sprint for our lives to get to the guy....in real basketball, you close out with hands high and slow down as you reach the opposition to protect the drive. in 2K, you literally will sprint past the guy or run into him....because 2K.

We are years away from REAL 'sim' basketball....but bc i think 2K lacks the know-how. Some of these changes are changes that EA makes to FIFA each year, and since it's one of their flagships, they pay close attention to detail every year and bring something new every year. 2K hasnt actually ever done this. they've only added play sets and a couple new animations smh