NBA 2K17 MyLeague CPU Roster Logic Still Really Bad

[Gramps91]

Re: NBA 2K17 MyLeague CPU Roster Logic Still Really Bad

Close to the theme of this thread, contract amounts have been discussed at length, with the general consensus being that amounts are almost universally low across the board and there are way too many $1-2m deals. That being said, I think/thought I found an additional consequence of these low valuations.

I was looking through free agency for youngish players I could throw a little money at, when I saw:

Spoiler

They...declined his team option? Wait a minute, there are a ton of rookies with declined options on their rookie contracts...do teams really value players that little, where $2-4m isn't worth it? Well not quite...

Spoiler

Uh...yeah. They declined his option, making him a UFA (giving up YEARS of control in the process) only to pursue him in free agency? Honestly there's nothing more to say here.

There are plenty other players like this. Another sort of category of weirdness:

Spoiler

Seems way too high (never thought I'd say that) for an unproven player, right? Well consider that there's no reason he should even be a free agent right now anyways, that's only because his stupid team declined his option only to throw all their money at him.

A different example:

Spoiler

LOL. So many things wrong with this. First of all, those numbers are absurdly low (minimum I'm pretty sure). Second, they're all 1 year contracts for a 26 year old quality role player. Third, they're all THE SAME. Nobody is trying to outbid the others, and it's not like these teams are all capped out. Just a couple thousand dollars at this point could 'outbid' the other teams. Fourth, he's an RFA. Really, that's how you're going to prevent his team from matching? UGH.

Speaking of RFAs, I still don't think they work properly. Sure, as a user we have the option to match when another team signs our player to an offer sheet, but I'm pretty sure CPU teams don't have this basic functionality. I'm have a good feeling an RFA is no different from a UFA as far as they're concerned. Not to mention the fact that the offer sheet/match is instant, no 3 day period where money is tied up until the other team decides to match (kind of like cap holds which don't exist, but I'm much forgiving on these features not being in the game yet until the basic stuff actually works).

Another quick hitter, I hate decisions on team options coming all at once in the offseason, rather than a deadline we have to meet the prior season. It results in almost none of the players that would typically be trade actually available to trade on draft day, because they are 'about to become free agents'. This is a big contributor to draft day trades making no sense, I think.

I really could have gone on and pointed out everything that didn't add up, dissect every signing that didn't make sense. But honestly, so few things went at all like one would expect in the real NBA, it got overwhelming. It's just so bad in the current state; I guess I would start with increasing contracts to their proper amounts and getting rid of the abundance of $1m deals. Even that will have problems though unless teams actually value their cheap rookie contracts though, as teams will eat up their cap space signing these guys in early free agency leaving little to no room to sign the actual free agents.

Wow man, nice job paying attention to this stuff. I probably wouldn't have realized it. Hopefully they can patch some fixes on these things. I'm almost strictly a MyLeague guy and really don't want to have to control all teams.

[trekfan]

Re: NBA 2K17 MyLeague CPU Roster Logic Still Really Bad

Close to the theme of this thread, contract amounts have been discussed at length, with the general consensus being that amounts are almost universally low across the board and there are way too many $1-2m deals. That being said, I think/thought I found an additional consequence of these low valuations.

I was looking through free agency for youngish players I could throw a little money at, when I saw:

Spoiler

They...declined his team option? Wait a minute, there are a ton of rookies with declined options on their rookie contracts...do teams really value players that little, where $2-4m isn't worth it? Well not quite...

Spoiler

Uh...yeah. They declined his option, making him a UFA (giving up YEARS of control in the process) only to pursue him in free agency? Honestly there's nothing more to say here.

There are plenty other players like this. Another sort of category of weirdness:

Spoiler

Seems way too high (never thought I'd say that) for an unproven player, right? Well consider that there's no reason he should even be a free agent right now anyways, that's only because his stupid team declined his option only to throw all their money at him.

A different example:

Spoiler

LOL. So many things wrong with this. First of all, those numbers are absurdly low (minimum I'm pretty sure). Second, they're all 1 year contracts for a 26 year old quality role player. Third, they're all THE SAME. Nobody is trying to outbid the others, and it's not like these teams are all capped out. Just a couple thousand dollars at this point could 'outbid' the other teams. Fourth, he's an RFA. Really, that's how you're going to prevent his team from matching? UGH.

Speaking of RFAs, I still don't think they work properly. Sure, as a user we have the option to match when another team signs our player to an offer sheet, but I'm pretty sure CPU teams don't have this basic functionality. I'm have a good feeling an RFA is no different from a UFA as far as they're concerned. Not to mention the fact that the offer sheet/match is instant, no 3 day period where money is tied up until the other team decides to match (kind of like cap holds which don't exist, but I'm much forgiving on these features not being in the game yet until the basic stuff actually works).

Another quick hitter, I hate decisions on team options coming all at once in the offseason, rather than a deadline we have to meet the prior season. It results in almost none of the players that would typically be trade actually available to trade on draft day, because they are 'about to become free agents'. This is a big contributor to draft day trades making no sense, I think.

I really could have gone on and pointed out everything that didn't add up, dissect every signing that didn't make sense. But honestly, so few things went at all like one would expect in the real NBA, it got overwhelming. It's just so bad in the current state; I guess I would start with increasing contracts to their proper amounts and getting rid of the abundance of $1m deals. Even that will have problems though unless teams actually value their cheap rookie contracts though, as teams will eat up their cap space signing these guys in early free agency leaving little to no room to sign the actual free agents.

This is a problem also during "summer league/cut players at the beginning of season" phase of the offseason. I had it set to auto in my file (I usually do), believing there was no way the CPU would cut 1st round picks.

I was wrong. The Celtics cut their low-end 1st rounders (from 2016 and 2017), guys who weren't stellar by any means, but provided cost controlled assets.

Ended up justifying it as the two young players got busted for using drugs or something in team facilities and were cut to be made an example of (and scare them straight), but I didn't realize the CPU would do that. Don't set that option to "Auto" in MyLeague automation or you could find yourself staring at super-young free agents.

[joosegoose]

Re: NBA 2K17 MyLeague CPU Roster Logic Still Really Bad

Wow man, nice job paying attention to this stuff. I probably wouldn't have realized it. Hopefully they can patch some fixes on these things. I'm almost strictly a MyLeague guy and really don't want to have to control all teams.

Thanks, I honestly can't help it (if I could, maybe I could relax and enjoy these modes a lot more ). I can't wait until the day we get a realistic franchise, complete with at least 95% accuracy of CBA rules. Unfortunately, part of why I noticed all of these is they're legacy issues. I'm pretty sure I posted about almost all of them at some point or another last year.

This is a problem also during "summer league/cut players at the beginning of season" phase of the offseason. I had it set to auto in my file (I usually do), believing there was no way the CPU would cut 1st round picks.

I was wrong. The Celtics cut their low-end 1st rounders (from 2016 and 2017), guys who weren't stellar by any means, but provided cost controlled assets.

Ended up justifying it as the two young players got busted for using drugs or something in team facilities and were cut to be made an example of (and scare them straight), but I didn't realize the CPU would do that. Don't set that option to "Auto" in MyLeague automation or you could find yourself staring at super-young free agents.

Interesting, good find. Seems consistent with how the AI doesn't value rookie contracts enough (though with half the league available at less than $2m/yr, can you blame them?).

It feels like a damn shame, I even went through all 30 teams for my expansion draft hand picking who I thought teams should or shouldn't protect--contenders held onto all their best players and crucial prospects, and rebuilding teams kept all their prospects. It felt like a waste when they wound up declining the team option on those prospects a year or two later.

[trekfan]

Re: NBA 2K17 MyLeague CPU Roster Logic Still Really Bad

Interesting, good find. Seems consistent with how the AI doesn't value rookie contracts enough (though with half the league available at less than $2m/yr, can you blame them?).

It feels like a damn shame, I even went through all 30 teams for my expansion draft hand picking who I thought teams should or shouldn't protect--contenders held onto all their best players and crucial prospects, and rebuilding teams kept all their prospects. It felt like a waste when they wound up declining the team option on those prospects a year or two later.

^Yeah, it's weird. Admittedly, 30-team control stops a lot of this from happening, though you have to be vigilant. Frankly, I wish they'd just allow us to set a global option like "1st round picks have options picked up until they become RFA" or something like that to prevent the CPU from cutting them. If we could get control of the automated roster logic with an option like that in a few key areas (1st round picks, players with team options above/below a certain amount) and have them be global options, it would save us quite a bit of time.

But that's probably not happening anytime soon. I really feel like the legacy issues in MyLeague are being compounded by the new features they're adding in there. Honestly, if they told me next year, "Guys, we've added nothing to MyLeague in 2K18 -- we're focusing the entire team on revamping the engine for 2K19, so this year you get what you got last year." I'd be fine with that.

Heck, if they removed MyLeague for a year and brought it back the next brand new with a rebuilt engine and legacy issues resolved, I'd be fine with that, too (though I imagine they'd take a hit in sales, I can't imagine it'd be a huge hit). Removing the franchise mode would be risky on a multitude of levels, but if that extra year of dev time can be used to resolve the legacy issues and rebuild the engine in the future to handle new features without compounding things, I think it'd be worth it.

I have 2K14, 2K16, and now 2K17. I can live a year doing a MyLeague with those if a new, much better version, awaits. But that's just my opinion and I doubt it's a viable reality.

[ExtremeGamer]

Re: NBA 2K17 MyLeague CPU Roster Logic Still Really Bad

Thanks, I honestly can't help it (if I could, maybe I could relax and enjoy these modes a lot more ). I can't wait until the day we get a realistic franchise, complete with at least 95% accuracy of CBA rules. Unfortunately, part of why I noticed all of these is they're legacy issues. I'm pretty sure I posted about almost all of them at some point or another last year.



Interesting, good find. Seems consistent with how the AI doesn't value rookie contracts enough (though with half the league available at less than $2m/yr, can you blame them?).

It feels like a damn shame, I even went through all 30 teams for my expansion draft hand picking who I thought teams should or shouldn't protect--contenders held onto all their best players and crucial prospects, and rebuilding teams kept all their prospects. It felt like a waste when they wound up declining the team option on those prospects a year or two later.

I'm doing all 30 team control, well 36 team control and the CPU still signed free agents on their own after the expansion draft. Frustrating! I wanted to be able to control all of that since the CPU has terrible roster control. I did go through and set who every team was going to keep as their protected players and that worked out fine.

[Hassan Darkside]

Re: NBA 2K17 MyLeague CPU Roster Logic Still Really Bad

I'm most discouraged to see rookies or young, unproven players still getting their team options declined by CPU teams. Especially with how the cap is, rookie contracts are the best bang for buck. The last 2-3 years I've had to make it a point to create a save right before free agency, then go in and get rid of the team option for potential young free agents.

The loading up of certain positions is annoying to me as well, but I can understand how difficult that logic can be. There are so many variables to account for between team needs, cap space, contract offer, and player desires. Teams in real life do the same thing though some end up getting moved later. Phoenix has had a glut of guards for the last few years, then just drafted 2 PFs with 2 top 10 picks. Boston has a ton of guards and young players as well, including 6 new rookies they drafted without trading away. Philly has drafted a C with their first pick for 3 straight years (until this year). Sacramento has drafted Cs with their first pick in each of the last 2 drafts, despite signing Kosta Koufos to a long-term deal last offseason and having Cousins. This list of extremely questionable personnel decisions in the NBA goes on and on and on.

I find the roster logic annoying quite frequently as well but I really have to make sure I temper my expectations with the understanding that real life teams and players do stuff that makes no sense all the time. I do approve/veto trades that I don't think are realistic and I do edit contracts or traits for players I expect to leave or stay with their team. I'm the type of cat that edits Wade's contract so he retires as a Heat, because it would make no sense for him to play anywhere else, right?

[trekfan]

Re: NBA 2K17 MyLeague CPU Roster Logic Still Really Bad

I'm most discouraged to see rookies or young, unproven players still getting their team options declined by CPU teams. Especially with how the cap is, rookie contracts are the best bang for buck. The last 2-3 years I've had to make it a point to create a save right before free agency, then go in and get rid of the team option for potential young free agents.

The loading up of certain positions is annoying to me as well, but I can understand how difficult that logic can be. There are so many variables to account for between team needs, cap space, contract offer, and player desires. Teams in real life do the same thing though some end up getting moved later. Phoenix has had a glut of guards for the last few years, then just drafted 2 PFs with 2 top 10 picks. Boston has a ton of guards and young players as well, including 6 new rookies they drafted without trading away. Philly has drafted a C with their first pick for 3 straight years (until this year). Sacramento has drafted Cs with their first pick in each of the last 2 drafts, despite signing Kosta Koufos to a long-term deal last offseason and having Cousins. This list of extremely questionable personnel decisions in the NBA goes on and on and on.

I find the roster logic annoying quite frequently as well but I really have to make sure I temper my expectations with the understanding that real life teams and players do stuff that makes no sense all the time. I do approve/veto trades that I don't think are realistic and I do edit contracts or traits for players I expect to leave or stay with their team. I'm the type of cat that edits Wade's contract so he retires as a Heat, because it would make no sense for him to play anywhere else, right?

^It really doesn't. I had the Heat re-sign him for what he wanted in my MyLeague and he's retiring as a Heat, as well as Bosh. It's just wrong for him to be anywhere else ... seriously hoping he doesn't become like Paul Pierce and just turn into a traveling nomad HOF vet, going from team to team the last few years of his career. Boston trading Pierce was cold on so many levels (though you can argue Pierce and KG did the Celtics the greatest service ever by getting traded to the Nets and reaping all those wonderful picks).

We need a return to a time when players who mean the world to their franchises stay there for their whole careers. Looking at the league, I doubt that'll happen; Kobe and Duncan might be the last of their kind to retire.

But, back on subject, yes, the AI roster logic is seriously skewed in some places. Like real life, it doesn't make sense sometimes ... but it would be nice if they didn't cut young players on dirt-cheap deals.

[LorenzoDC]

Re: NBA 2K17 MyLeague CPU Roster Logic Still Really Bad

^It really doesn't. I had the Heat re-sign him for what he wanted in my MyLeague and he's retiring as a Heat, as well as Bosh. It's just wrong for him to be anywhere else ... seriously hoping he doesn't become like Paul Pierce and just turn into a traveling nomad HOF vet, going from team to team the last few years of his career. Boston trading Pierce was cold on so many levels (though you can argue Pierce and KG did the Celtics the greatest service ever by getting traded to the Nets and reaping all those wonderful picks).

We need a return to a time when players who mean the world to their franchises stay there for their whole careers. Looking at the league, I doubt that'll happen; Kobe and Duncan might be the last of their kind to retire.

But, back on subject, yes, the AI roster logic is seriously skewed in some places. Like real life, it doesn't make sense sometimes ... but it would be nice if they didn't cut young players on dirt-cheap deals.

I agree there are teams that draft heavy at a position as they rebuild and just try to find the most valuable assets.

But when you have, as in the OP, the Cavaliers adding C's via free agency with a front court total contingent of 9 guys, that's broken logic, full stop.

They have six C's and 3 PF's. One C is 24. Everyone else is an older guy or prime aged signed as a FA, other than guys they had on contract already in 2016.

[Luke Skywalker]

Re: NBA 2K17 MyLeague CPU Roster Logic Still Really Bad

They got the Cavs and 76ers logic mixed up.

[BA2929]

Re: NBA 2K17 MyLeague CPU Roster Logic Still Really Bad

I started in the offseason this year and got through it in a weekend too, taking my time to learn the menus and new features, but I'm almost sure I can do an offseason in a day now thanks to that toggle ability.

"A day". What does that mean in hours? 8? 3?

If it's 8 hours, that's a full week of gaming for me lol

[trekfan]

Re: NBA 2K17 MyLeague CPU Roster Logic Still Really Bad

"A day". What does that mean in hours? 8? 3?

If it's 8 hours, that's a full week of gaming for me lol

A full-weekend day, so basically 10-12 hours with no interruptions. I'm pretty OCD about planning out what free agents go where, who drafts who, what trades are made, and what coaches stay/go. So I pretty much GM all the teams in the offseason (and largely ignore the rest of the teams I'm not using until the contract extension/trade deadline period of the season).

If I get interrupted (it happens plenty), then basically two real days, a span of 48 hours. It's a time sucker any way, but it's less time than it used to take (DAYS).

[eye guy]

Re: NBA 2K17 MyLeague CPU Roster Logic Still Really Bad

Someone send this to 2K/VC asap...

[thevardano]

Re: NBA 2K17 MyLeague CPU Roster Logic Still Really Bad

This is my favorite mode in any games, but while I was reading this I got this bad feeling that this never gonna be fixed. I'm just really tired to do everything for an AI, takes so much time, this is crazy. I know it's kinda cool to have an expansion teams and ability to move to another city... but I really have zero interst to it. Give me:

1. Good roster logic
2. Good trade logic
3. Good AI value of a market and it's palyers

I'm not asking for Great things or something more like AI which can outsmart you as GM in a short and long run... No, no, just give us solid fundamentals.

* Yeah, I will lower players crazy three point rating progress myself, if you do other part of job well.

[LorenzoDC]

Re: NBA 2K17 MyLeague CPU Roster Logic Still Really Bad

This is my favorite mode in any games, but while I was reading this I got this bad feeling that this never gonna be fixed. I'm just really tired to do everything for an AI, takes so much time, this is crazy. I know it's kinda cool to have an expansion teams and ability to move to another city... but I really have zero interst to it. Give me:

1. Good roster logic
2. Good trade logic
3. Good AI value of a market and it's palyers

I'm not asking for Great things or something more like AI which can outsmart you as GM in a short and long run... No, no, just give us solid fundamentals.

* Yeah, I will lower players crazy three point rating progress myself, if you do other part of job well.

According to my simulations, if you use my MyLeague slider edits found here, this problem is minimized a lot.

I'm gonna put that in the OP.