NBA 2k17 MyLeague After 5 Years: Data Showing Problems

[trekfan]

Re: NBA 2k17 MyLeague After 5 Years: Data Showing Problems

The CPU does not focus all training on 3 pt shooting, at least, not according to the visible training plans for each player on each team. It only puts maybe 5% of training points to shooting for good shooters, and even less for other types of players.

Nevertheless, the results of a combination of training plus off season progression have supercharged 3pt AND mid range open shooting. So as other have said, there's much more going on here than what we as users can edit or control.

So if you increase (did you mean decrease?) the league wide progression slider the shooting progression problem will only get worse. If you decrease the league wide progression slider to 0, as trekfan has tested, it still does not overcome the juiced up shooting development across the league. It just dampens the tremendous increase a little.

Your question did make me think of something else I could maybe test, though. With 30 team control, you can specify training priorities for a whole team at once for each team. So you could go to the Team Training window, select fundamentals, and create a custom set of priorities among all the ones listed, and drop the shooting training sliders to zero if you want. I suspect players will still increase, just not by as much, but that would have to be tested.

I suspect that because based on what I've seen so far, the in season training customization available to the user only modestly shapes the training outcomes, by some marginal percentage but far from 100%. I'm going to guess it's under maybe between 5-15% based on my recollection of some things Leftos said years ago. Our training sliders do not give us full player training effects control, I don't believe.

All that doesn't even solve the problem of player progression, which we can see also contributes to juiced up shooting. Remember, training effects and player progression (which is off season), for the game's purposes, are different and separate.

Maybe I'll run another test to see how much can be managed using the team by team training menus, beyond the individual player level. I'd have to run a new league sim test with 30 team control. I'm not optimistic it would do anything more than help a little, maybe by 5-10%, os if I'm right it wouldn't solve the problem.

That could part of the solution. I'll start testing out combinations of that.

Initially, I plan to set the team training programs to focus all on defensive/athletic attributes, to offset the offensive progression in the offseason. I'll keep sliders at default -- 50 progression, 50 regression, 50 in-season training -- and turn off injuries/chemistry/morale and see how things proceed.

[trekfan]

Re: NBA 2k17 MyLeague After 5 Years: Data Showing Problems

That could part of the solution. I'll start testing out combinations of that.

Initially, I plan to set the team training programs to focus all on defensive/athletic attributes, to offset the offensive progression in the offseason. I'll keep sliders at default -- 50 progression, 50 regression, 50 in-season training -- and turn off injuries/chemistry/morale and see how things proceed.

WHOA, everyone, the in-season training effects are having HUGE effects on the progression.

I'm at the start of the 2018 season, simmed two seasons in. Here's my results:

Number of 90 or greater open 3pt shooters at beginning of season:
2016-17: 31
2017-18: 17
2018-19: 12 (originally was 5, that was a typo, sorry)

Number of high grade (A- or better) low post defenders:

2016-17: 24
2017-18: 30
2018-19: 43

Number of high grade (A- or better) perimeter defenders:

2016-17: 20
2017-18: 22
2018-19: 31

Number of 90 or greater players (AKA superstars):

2016-17: 12
2017-18: 10
2018-19: 9


Two simmed years in, at the start of the third year, and the following trends are apparent:

1. With defense heavy training sliders, players in the league are becoming more defensive focused in much the same way the open 3pt rating was skewing everything, the league is now becoming unbalanced in terms of defensive players.

2. The open 3pt rating dramatically falls with these sliders, resulting in a league where there are fewer players who can knock down a shot almost automatically.

3. There seems to be a correlation between a degradation of league-wide open 3pt rating and the lack of "superstar" players. Not a dramatic drop off, but noticeable. The overall rating seems to value offensive skills more than defensive skills.

I'm watching rookies to see how they fair, but no firm results yet.

But in-season training is the culprit it seems as the progression engine seems to be guided in a big way by what happens in-season.

[LorenzoDC]

Re: NBA 2k17 MyLeague After 5 Years: Data Showing Problems

Your question did make me think of something else I could maybe test, though. With 30 team control, you can specify training priorities for a whole team at once for each team. So you could go to the Team Training window, select fundamentals, and create a custom set of priorities among all the ones listed, and drop the shooting training sliders to zero if you want. I suspect players will still increase, just not by as much, but that would have to be tested.

Good news, guys. . . It looks like there's a way to fix the player progression issues I demonstrated in the OP with Team Training plans!

I ran another test. IN this one, same methods as in the OP, only I created a custom training plan for each team where I set mid range shooting and 3 pt shooting to 0 training points and divided everything else up among other attributes with a concentration on defense. I did leave some training for mid and 3 off the dribble, however, but not much. Here are the test results:



Observations:

• This custom plan definitely cut out the over development of mid and 3 pt open shooting. Both actually decreased.
• We got a couple more A+ potential guys in this simulation and that's good, but maybe random. I don't see a reason off the top of my head why changing the training plans might pop out two more A+ guys, but we're talking about low frequency events anyway with only two tests, so we shouldn't draw too many conclusions, even from the test in the OP.
• This test training plan set depressed 3 pt shooting even more than it did mid range shooting.
• We see a big change in the number of defensive type archetypes in the league with these training plans. That means draft classes, even CPU default ones, can be shaped through Team Training to balance out the league between offense and defense.
• We see here better roster balance across positions. I have no theory why that would be the case with the training plans, but possibly there is some interaction with how roster logic values individual players that works better with these training changes.
• The league could still use some more high end stars, but that could be addressed with draft classes.

Without counting the other archetypes in detail, my impression is I saw a bigger load in playmaking and rebounding types with this sample training set. I think if I tweaked it a bit more I could find a nice balance to keep up some shooting in the league and still get a nice representation of archetypes.

I won't share or publish this training plan right now as I don't think it's ready to use in your leagues yet, but let me play with it and then I will share something. I'm on XB1 and my gamertag is JoeyRam0ne.

[trekfan]

Re: NBA 2k17 MyLeague After 5 Years: Data Showing Problems

Good news, guys. . . It looks like there's a way to fix the player progression issues I demonstrated in the OP with Team Training plans!

I ran another test. IN this one, same methods as in the OP, only I created a custom training plan for each team where I set mid range shooting and 3 pt shooting to 0 training points and divided everything else up among other attributes with a concentration on defense. I did leave some training for mid and 3 off the dribble, however, but not much. Here are the test results:



Observations:

• This custom plan definitely cut out the over development of mid and 3 pt open shooting. Both actually decreased.
• We got a couple more A+ potential guys in this simulation and that's good, but maybe random. I don't see a reason off the top of my head why changing the training plans might pop out two more A+ guys, but we're talking about low frequency events anyway with only two tests, so we shouldn't draw too many conclusions, even from the test in the OP.
• This test training plan set depressed 3 pt shooting even more than it did mid range shooting.
• We see a big change in the number of defensive type archetypes in the league with these training plans. That means draft classes, even CPU default ones, can be shaped through Team Training to balance out the league between offense and defense.
• We see here better roster balance across positions. I have no theory why that would be the case with the training plans, but possibly there is some interaction with how roster logic values individual players that works better with these training changes.
• The league could still use some more high end stars, but that could be addressed with draft classes.

Without counting the other archetypes in detail, my impression is I saw a bigger load in playmaking and rebounding types with this sample training set. I think if I tweaked it a bit more I could find a nice balance yo keep up some shooting in the league and still get a nice representation of archetypes.

I won't share or publish this training plan right now as I don't think it's ready to use in your leagues yet, but let me play with it and then I will share something. I'm on XB1 and my gamertag is JoeyRam0ne.

WHO HOOOOOO.

The power of the community on display right here in this thread. Way to go, man, nice findings, looks like mine are going to confirm at least some of what you see (I set my sliders for heavy defense, little offense at all).

The in-season training effects are definitely the driving force here.

[rjohns23]

Re: NBA 2k17 MyLeague After 5 Years: Data Showing Problems

Great work guys! So in the mean time we just have to adjust each teams/players progression to get a more balanced league.

[joosegoose]

Re: NBA 2k17 MyLeague After 5 Years: Data Showing Problems

Spoiler

Good news, guys. . . It looks like there's a way to fix the player progression issues I demonstrated in the OP with Team Training plans!

I ran another test. IN this one, same methods as in the OP, only I created a custom training plan for each team where I set mid range shooting and 3 pt shooting to 0 training points and divided everything else up among other attributes with a concentration on defense. I did leave some training for mid and 3 off the dribble, however, but not much. Here are the test results:



Observations:

• This custom plan definitely cut out the over development of mid and 3 pt open shooting. Both actually decreased.
• We got a couple more A+ potential guys in this simulation and that's good, but maybe random. I don't see a reason off the top of my head why changing the training plans might pop out two more A+ guys, but we're talking about low frequency events anyway with only two tests, so we shouldn't draw too many conclusions, even from the test in the OP.
• This test training plan set depressed 3 pt shooting even more than it did mid range shooting.
• We see a big change in the number of defensive type archetypes in the league with these training plans. That means draft classes, even CPU default ones, can be shaped through Team Training to balance out the league between offense and defense.
• We see here better roster balance across positions. I have no theory why that would be the case with the training plans, but possibly there is some interaction with how roster logic values individual players that works better with these training changes.
• The league could still use some more high end stars, but that could be addressed with draft classes.

Without counting the other archetypes in detail, my impression is I saw a bigger load in playmaking and rebounding types with this sample training set. I think if I tweaked it a bit more I could find a nice balance to keep up some shooting in the league and still get a nice representation of archetypes.

I won't share or publish this training plan right now as I don't think it's ready to use in your leagues yet, but let me play with it and then I will share something. I'm on XB1 and my gamertag is JoeyRam0ne.

Damn son, that's HUGE. Steph Curry hitting 30+ footers level of on fire here. Is the team training plan something that you just apply to each team, meaning it wouldn't take long at all to do for 30 teams? Does it overwrite individual player training?

[trekfan]

Re: NBA 2k17 MyLeague After 5 Years: Data Showing Problems

Damn son, that's HUGE. Steph Curry hitting 30+ footers level of on fire here. Is the team training plan something that you just apply to each team, meaning it wouldn't take long at all to do for 30 teams? Does it overwrite individual player training?

Yes. Team training overwrites player training for everyone on the team. Team training sliders are easy to apply, you can save a set, load them for every team on 30 team control (and make sure that the setting in League Automation is never set to auto so the CPU doesn't switch the training back to "Player Type") and you're ready to go. Takes no more than five minutes to set up really.

I'm continuing to work on my end to see what looks good. Feel like I have the progression/regression about right, the open 3pt shot looked good for the first few years but then really spiked in year 5 and continued to in year 6, so the sliders are still off there, but I'm definitely close to having a trial set ready.

Hopefully we'll be able to have this cracked by the start of the weekend and we can all get back to questioning the CPU's trade logic ...

[joosegoose]

Re: NBA 2k17 MyLeague After 5 Years: Data Showing Problems

Yes. Team training overwrites player training for everyone on the team. Team training sliders are easy to apply, you can save a set, load them for every team on 30 team control (and make sure that the setting in League Automation is never set to auto so the CPU doesn't switch the training back to "Player Type") and you're ready to go. Takes no more than five minutes to set up really.

I'm continuing to work on my end to see what looks good. Feel like I have the progression/regression about right, the open 3pt shot looked good for the first few years but then really spiked in year 5 and continued to in year 6, so the sliders are still off there, but I'm definitely close to having a trial set ready.

That's about what I figured, sounds pretty manageable. Does this mean you have to keep it on 30 team control after you set every team's training?

Hopefully we'll be able to have this cracked by the start of the weekend and we can all get back to questioning the CPU's trade logic ...

Nonsense, I can do both at the same time!

[trekfan]

Re: NBA 2k17 MyLeague After 5 Years: Data Showing Problems

That's about what I figured, sounds pretty manageable. Does this mean you have to keep it on 30 team control after you set every team's training?

Not technically. Just leave the sliders alone once you set them.

Actually, looking now, there IS NO setting for player training in League Automation, so you can just leave it alone and it'll stay. My test franchise I'm running this as has everything set to auto (with trades and injuries off, mind you) and my sliders are staying exactly as I set them, 5 simmed seasons down the line.

So, set them once, leave them alone for all teams (you can adjust yours if you wish, I don't think it would horribly skew the results, it'd probably be barely noticeable) and you're good to go.

[Mauer4MVP]

Re: NBA 2k17 MyLeague After 5 Years: Data Showing Problems

I'm going to leave the 3 point and mid all at .5 for now.

[trekfan]

Re: NBA 2k17 MyLeague After 5 Years: Data Showing Problems

I'm going to leave the 3 point and mid all at .5 for now.

I've got a promising set I'm working on; 7 years in and here's what I'm looking at, pretty even across years as you can see with a little variation, but nothing dramatic:




Year | # of 90 of greater3pt |# of A-or post defenders |#of A- permi defenders | Superstars
<table width="509" cellspacing="0" border="0" height="150"><colgroup width="87"></colgroup><colgroup width="192"></colgroup><colgroup width="260"></colgroup><colgroup width="303"></colgroup><colgroup width="235"></colgroup><tbody><tr><td align="left" height="17">16-17</td><td align="right">31</td><td align="right">24</td><td align="right">20</td><td align="right">12</td></tr><tr><td align="left" height="17">17-18</td><td align="right">26</td><td align="right">23</td><td align="right">19</td><td align="right">13</td></tr><tr><td align="left" height="17">18-19</td><td align="right">27</td><td align="right">23</td><td align="right">19</td><td align="right">11</td></tr><tr><td align="left" height="17">19-20</td><td align="right">32</td><td align="right">25</td><td align="right">20</td><td align="right">9</td></tr><tr><td align="left" height="17">20-21</td><td align="right">35</td><td align="right">26</td><td align="right">19</td><td align="right">10</td></tr><tr><td align="left" height="17">21-22</td><td align="right">35</td><td align="right">24</td><td align="right">19</td><td align="right">10</td></tr><tr><td align="left" height="17">22-23

</td><td align="right">34</td><td align="right">20</td><td align="right">16</td><td align="right">9
</td></tr> </tbody></table>

[drustrk3]

Re: NBA 2k17 MyLeague After 5 Years: Data Showing Problems

Great work in this thread. What makes OS, what it is.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[trekfan]

Re: NBA 2k17 MyLeague After 5 Years: Data Showing Problems

I've got a promising set I'm working on; 7 years in and here's what I'm looking at, pretty even across years as you can see with a little variation, but nothing dramatic:




Year | # of 90 of greater3pt |# of A-or post defenders |#of A- permi defenders | Superstars
<table width="509" cellspacing="0" border="0" height="150"><colgroup width="87"></colgroup><colgroup width="192"></colgroup><colgroup width="260"></colgroup><colgroup width="303"></colgroup><colgroup width="235"></colgroup><tbody><tr><td align="left" height="17">16-17</td><td align="right">31</td><td align="right">24</td><td align="right">20</td><td align="right">12</td></tr><tr><td align="left" height="17">17-18</td><td align="right">26</td><td align="right">23</td><td align="right">19</td><td align="right">13</td></tr><tr><td align="left" height="17">18-19</td><td align="right">27</td><td align="right">23</td><td align="right">19</td><td align="right">11</td></tr><tr><td align="left" height="17">19-20</td><td align="right">32</td><td align="right">25</td><td align="right">20</td><td align="right">9</td></tr><tr><td align="left" height="17">20-21</td><td align="right">35</td><td align="right">26</td><td align="right">19</td><td align="right">10</td></tr><tr><td align="left" height="17">21-22</td><td align="right">35</td><td align="right">24</td><td align="right">19</td><td align="right">10</td></tr><tr><td align="left" height="17">22-23

</td><td align="right">34</td><td align="right">20</td><td align="right">16</td><td align="right">9
</td></tr> </tbody></table>

Tried a different variation on this set and it broke in year 6 and 7 -- possibly due to the auto generated rookies. I'm close, though. Should have some solid ones tomorrow. Stay tuned.

[Gramps91]

Re: NBA 2k17 MyLeague After 5 Years: Data Showing Problems

So, hopefully with some updated training sliders we could fix this. Has anyone tried jacking up the Draft Class Quality slider at the beginning of the MyLeague to see what effect it has on the generated rookie classes? I'm thinking putting it to 60 or 65 will result in more superstars generated than what we've been seeing.

[Baebae32]

Re: NBA 2k17 MyLeague After 5 Years: Data Showing Problems

Great finds on the individual training guys. Im still an advocate of individual potentail ratings for every attribute however