CPU- Double Teams Post Patch

[poetinjune]

Re: CPU- Double Teams Post Patch

I understand where 2k is coming from, trying to emulate nba defense with the double teams when a star player is going off.

Still, a little frustrating in mycareer when your character is double teamed from the opening tip whenever he posts up, especially as a post scoring sf whose offense exclusively comes from the post.

I only do offline, no park or proam, and play on superstar sim so if the excessive doubletraming, especially from the post, can be toned down a bit would be a godsend. Even better would be to give the player the option to disable it, as suggested in this thread.

I'm a fan of the game, and having a blast with my athletic finisher. Just wish i can enjoy the post scoring archetype without feeling frustrated by unrealistic but well-intentioned double teams.

[meccs]

Re: CPU- Double Teams Post Patch

I understand where 2k is coming from, trying to emulate nba defense with the double teams when a star player is going off.

Still, a little frustrating in mycareer when your character is double teamed from the opening tip whenever he posts up, especially as a post scoring sf whose offense exclusively comes from the post.

I only do offline, no park or proam, and play on superstar sim so if the excessive doubletraming, especially from the post, can be toned down a bit would be a godsend. Even better would be to give the player the option to disable it, as suggested in this thread.

I'm a fan of the game, and having a blast with my athletic finisher. Just wish i can enjoy the post scoring archetype without feeling frustrated by unrealistic but well-intentioned double teams.

I've never seen a real game where someone is double teamed as soon as he crosses the line unless it is a late game situation! Chris Smoove has a pretty good comment video on this issue.

[poetinjune]

Re: CPU- Double Teams Post Patch

I've never seen a real game where someone is double teamed as soon as he crosses the line unless it is a late game situation! Chris Smoove has a pretty good comment video on this issue.

Yeah in that vid, kawhi leonard guards smoove and another player comes over to double. Kawhi doesnt need help on defense since he's the dpoy.

Again, i'm a huge fan of 2k and this year's edition. Just constructive criticism on how the offline experience can be enjoyed

[meccs]

Re: CPU- Double Teams Post Patch

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/0A8tTTlBkFc?t=3m4s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Double_Dribble Rea]

Re: CPU- Double Teams Post Patch

Its the reason I refunded the game this year...I tried modifying sliders, player tendancies, coach tendencies, but no matter what I did as soon as you score 8 points with one player they are getting doubled for the remainder of the game....it destroyed the game for me

[Shadymamba]

Re: CPU- Double Teams Post Patch

In MyCareer it is. I thought it got better with 1.04, but its gotten worse again with 1.05. Especially in MyCareer, some Double Teams are just beyond stupid. 2k should either turn it off if possible somehow for now or fix it asap.

Bro no lie it was the 1st quarter in My Career i had 7 points and 3 assist - and they were flying over to me to double me - meanwhile Wiggins had 10 points he was the hot guy - yet as soon as I got the ball they just doubled me. I can understand the logic of a double team, not in the 1st quarter with the score 17-12 that makes no sense at all.

[meccs]

CPU- Double Teams Post Patch

Bro no lie it was the 1st quarter in My Career i had 7 points and 3 assist - and they were flying over to me to double me - meanwhile Wiggins had 10 points he was the hot guy - yet as soon as I got the ball they just doubled me. I can understand the logic of a double team, not in the 1st quarter with the score 17-12 that makes no sense at all.

I had 0 points and 2 assists and they started doing that in the 1st....

[Celtics4Life]

Re: CPU- Double Teams Post Patch

Bro no lie it was the 1st quarter in My Career i had 7 points and 3 assist - and they were flying over to me to double me - meanwhile Wiggins had 10 points he was the hot guy - yet as soon as I got the ball they just doubled me. I can understand the logic of a double team, not in the 1st quarter with the score 17-12 that makes no sense at all.

I still can't determine if all these animations are created to make it harder to score...? (less vc, less points, make my career harder, make player pass first) Or is 2k trying to emulate new AI behavior?

This was never a issue in any other My Career/Player modes in previous years so why now? I recall 2k16 I would get double teamed but it was after I dropped 20-30+

So ya dont get it at all. Still happening more after patch. Worst of all you can not get away from it and that magnetic, ball bouncing off your fingers like if it was covered in butter kicks in. So if you dont pass as soon as that double team comes its auto strip or jump ball.

[Shadymamba]

Re: CPU- Double Teams Post Patch

I still can't determine if all these animations are created to make it harder to score...? (less vc, less points, make my career harder, make player pass first) Or is 2k trying to emulate new AI behavior?

This was never a issue in any other My Career/Player modes in previous years so why now? I recall 2k16 I would get double teamed but it was after I dropped 20-30+

So ya dont get it at all. Still happening more after patch. Worst of all you can not get away from it and that magnetic, ball bouncing off your fingers like if it was covered in butter kicks in. So if you dont pass as soon as that double team comes its auto strip or jump ball.

Dude everything you experience I experience as well - and yes it's all good in the 3rd quarter i'm torching you for 30 plus on my way to 40 or something, but by the 8th or 9th possession that is crazy - and I don't know about you, but i'm a real sim guy i'm not out to drop 100 points and post it on youtube - I like to enjoy the game and make it as real as possible so passing is not an issue, but being forced to pass because i can't beat a double is crazy - also they want us to master the dribble stick and break a defender down - well needless to say that option is worthless, because as soon as i do a crossover here he comes - so oh well to heck with trying to perfect a craft of having a killer crossover or use the step back jumper cause as you said, it will be a strip or better yet a jump ball - hopefully enough people complain that they will address it

[BryceDouglasRules]

Re: CPU- Double Teams Post Patch

Every single one of my career saves they double from the tip. I dunno how you guys say 6-8 points. As the point guard I could go all game long running the offense if my teammates didn't rely on me to score EVERY possession. I play with ACE on and plays to automatic and even when I'm trying to take a play off 90% of the time it's a bricked shot or a turn over.

I've produced a counter of sorts tho. If you're PG or have OCC then call an iso before you cross half court and post up your man all the way to the paint. As soon as the double comes, spin away from the double and pass immediately to the open man outside. If they double from the paint it's usually a Lob to the open big man.

Really lame but the only way to not average 8 turn overs a game.

[itchyroll_51]

Re: CPU- Double Teams Post Patch

Well read the thread up till this point and yup is ridicuolus. Someone at 2K is deeming this AI double teaming behaviour as necessary and refuses to remove it. Any basic basketball player will realize 2K'a double team logic will ruin offline user experience, yet this goes on. They really don't care much about is offline players do they ..... Why is this still in the game ??

[JoFri]

Re: CPU- Double Teams Post Patch

So if you dont pass as soon as that double team comes its auto strip or jump ball.

use the protect ball animation to prevent from ball stolen away, i think its LT with RS pointing towards basket in 2k cam.

Lol now i can have Harden jacking up assist to 15 coupled with 30 pts, quite close to irl stats.

i remember in 2k16, one of the early issues was there were NO double team at all. amd we scratched over how we could implement double team creatively.

now, anyone try turning it off in the opponent's defensive settings (offline game) while we wait for 2K's update?

Last year they did. i'm sure they will this year too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NINJAK2]

Re: CPU- Double Teams Post Patch

[quote=itchyroll_51;2048590080] Well read the thread up till this point and yup is ridicuolus. Someone at 2K is deeming this AI double teaming behaviour as necessary and refuses to remove it. Any basic basketball player will realize 2K'a double team logic will ruin offline user experience, yet this goes on. They really don't care much about is offline players do they ..... Why is this still in the game ? [\quote]



<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td width="100%" style='width: 100%; height: 14px; background-image: url("/forums/images/quotes/02.gif");'></td><td width="18"></td></tr></tbody></table><table style="width: 90%; margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 5px;" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td width="75"><table width="50" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td width="37"></td><td width="100%" valign="middle" style='background-position: center; width: 1px; height: 24px; background-image: url("/forums/images/quotes/07.gif");'>Quote:</td><td></td></tr></tbody></table></td><td align="left"></td><td align="left"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td></td><td width="100%" align="left" nowrap="nowrap" valign="middle" style='width: 100%; height: 24px; background-image: url("/forums/images/quotes/09.gif");'> Originally Posted by Da_Czar</td><td></td></tr></tbody></table></td><td width="100%" align="right"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td width="100%"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td width="100%" style='width: 100%; height: 24px; background-image: url("/forums/images/quotes/11.gif");'></td><td align="left"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr><td><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td width="37" style='width: 37px; height: 1px; background-image: url("/forums/images/quotes/04.gif");'></td><td width="100%" style='width: 100%; height: 1px; background-image: url("/forums/images/quotes/00.gif");'></td><td width="18" style='width: 18px; height: 1px; background-image: url("/forums/images/quotes/05.gif");'></td></tr><tr><td width="37" style='width: 37px; height: 1px; background-image: url("/forums/images/quotes/04.gif");'></td><td width="100%" style='width: 100%; height: 1px; background-image: url("/forums/images/quotes/00.gif");'>Our games has key issues we still have not solved. Still too many real life elements that we don't properly account for. Those are holes, until those are filled ( some are technical and some are philosophical) it's going to be hit or miss and that is the truth.

There are amazing things our Ai can do that movement can't account for yet. So there is stuff we are telling you the game can do that are failing due to other systems.

As those systems improve more of the hoops that we have in the logic will begin to shine through.

A perfect example of this are the plays and freelances. Beautifully constructed but until patch 1.06 virtually useless right ? After patch 1.06 all those systems are out of the way and the flow is right there, the branching is right there. It was there all along but hard to see because of the systems.

But we are very excited about what the future holds for us in removing the systems barrier and allowing more of our "play basketball" to shine through.

Our game is at the point where there are no more easy wins everything we need to do is very time and resources intensive. And unfortunately you can't do everything at once.

So your question is really too big to answer I could talk for hours about any specific decision lol. But in general these games are not as far along as consumers believe they are. There is still SO MUCH MORE to do.

Just think it took a year just to stop everyone from running into the paint. that is ONE thing and there is more logic needed than that. But that was step 1.
</td><td width="18" style='width: 18px; height: 1px; background-image: url("/forums/images/quotes/05.gif");'></td></tr><tr><td width="37"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>This may not be speaking specifically to double teams Pham but it sounds like it eludes to both the difficulty, complexity, and effort it takes to flush out and fix 2k's issues. It seems that fixing this issue may not be as simple as typing the command "Make all double teams logical" into the code otherwise it would have been done already. Cats like Czar, Wang, etc have to know this is an issue and wouldn't just let it exist if they knew how to remedy it ASAP. 2k has dropped 6 patches I think thus far and I doubt they would do this if they weren't trying to make the game the best it could be. I have been just as critical with the game this year on many fronts (primarily now those skinny models still existing) so I'm not trying to single you out or anything.

[GSW]

Re: CPU- Double Teams Post Patch

I wanted to say a couple things as well since i have experience in the industry. Always remember this with regards to software.

Nothing is ever as easy as "just make this small change". NOTHING.

Also, regards to concern about certain things being addressed and certain things not being addressed, along with Czar's comments regarding systems and complexity, also know there are priorities. Just because you see something someone voiced as a concern get addressed doesn't mean you aren't being seen as well.

If the risk of me "fixing" A means theres a probability X, Yand Z are affected "A" no longer becomes a priority...fixing it so X,Y,Z don't break does however and that may mean another development cycle.

It's not a race to see who get's listened too. Never forget that.

[sperlz_99]

Re: CPU- Double Teams Post Patch

for offline users this double teams defense needs to be fixed or the game is broken. I can win every game with one simple move with every offensive possession.

Stand on the edge of three point line, call a screen and two cpu players will hard hedge and surround the point guard. Then you have two options depending on what is open. Play in the centre or pf for the easy dunk (works around 80% of the time) or if he is covered throw it out to a man who will be wide open for a three and sink the easy shot.

If the screen doesnt work first time just run forward with the point guard then back to the 3 point line and do it again and it will work. This is a huge exploit glitch and it has killed offline.