What do you guys feel should be done with the potential system in 2k18?

[VAWereWolf65]

Re: What do you guys feel should be done with the potential system in 2k18?

And there should be limits for certain attributes.

If a PF with an A potential rating comes into the league with zero long range skills it shouldn't be possible that he increases this rating (3 point) significantly from his overall potential alone. If he absolutely cannot hit a 3 with 20 the odds are rather slim that he can learn it.

I would like to see a splitted potential rating (maybe there wouldn't be a need to have a potential rating for every attribute):

- athletic potential
- shooting/offensive potential (splitted into inside/mid/ 3point)
- BBall iQ potential (This by the way should never ever drop once the peak is reached. Why should a 33 year old lose Offensive Awareness? BBallIQ is a question of experience and mental attributes. It doesn't get worse when i lose a step or cannot jump as high as before.)

And the potential shouldn't be set in stone once a player is drafted. There could even be a random factor be involved. A highly considered draft pick (Bennett, Beasley) has maybe a high potential at draft night. But it can look mightily different after 2 or three years in the league. Game could simulate that with a randomization of potential in the first years of a career. So, sometimes your scouts say player x has A- potential, but after two years in the league it turns out he is only a B-. Happens all the time in real life - won't happen in the game.

Giving playing time should be a very important factor for reaching maximum potential as well. Even a A potential player has to play to get experience. If he doesn't he should progress way slower. Developping players means not only to practice a lot with them. They have to play.

This reminds me, in one of my leagues, Ben Simmons actually developed an 82 open shot three lol.

[BBallcoach]

Re: What do you guys feel should be done with the potential system in 2k18?

And there should be limits for certain attributes.

If a PF with an A potential rating comes into the league with zero long range skills it shouldn't be possible that he increases this rating (3 point) significantly from his overall potential alone. If he absolutely cannot hit a 3 with 20 the odds are rather slim that he can learn it.

I would like to see a splitted potential rating (maybe there wouldn't be a need to have a potential rating for every attribute):

- athletic potential
- shooting/offensive potential (splitted into inside/mid/ 3point)
- BBall iQ potential (This by the way should never ever drop once the peak is reached. Why should a 33 year old lose Offensive Awareness? BBallIQ is a question of experience and mental attributes. It doesn't get worse when i lose a step or cannot jump as high as before.)

And the potential shouldn't be set in stone once a player is drafted. There could even be a random factor be involved. A highly considered draft pick (Bennett, Beasley) has maybe a high potential at draft night. But it can look mightily different after 2 or three years in the league. Game could simulate that with a randomization of potential in the first years of a career. So, sometimes your scouts say player x has A- potential, but after two years in the league it turns out he is only a B-. Happens all the time in real life - won't happen in the game.

Giving playing time should be a very important factor for reaching maximum potential as well. Even a A potential player has to play to get experience. If he doesn't he should progress way slower. Developping players means not only to practice a lot with them. They have to play.

Shooting is the easiest thing to improve on. Look at guys like Serge Ibaka, Hell Drew Gooden made a comeback as a stretch 4 a couple years ago. So it is possible buuuuuuuuuut I tend mostly agree with you most guys should not develop into good shooters. More often than not it's guards like John Wall who's worked on his shot for years to now become a consistent shooter. I would love to see 2k implement something like that.

[Dyslexicphish]

Re: What do you guys feel should be done with the potential system in 2k18?

Since we are talking about attributes I think a thing to keep in mind is that in 2k users have the luxury of having a concrete number for every attribute and skill a basketball player has. In real life GMs, coaches and the like can only go by FG%, 3PT%, AST etc so there's a ton of guess work (hence the advent of sabermetrics in basketball recently). Attributes are far more esoteric in real life and not as concrete like 2k. I wish scouting in 2k was more like this. I believe one 2k in the past tried to emulate this by obscuring player attributes if they weren't on your team. Maybe in future iterations scouts give you an approximation of attributes and its accuracy is dependent on the quality of the scout. You don't know every attribute until, at the very least, you sign a player to a preseason or 10 day contract.

So say you have a player like Yogi Ferrell. He puts up good stats in college but initial scouting pegs him at around 65. He's also 23 y/o, 6', 180 lbs and not overly athletic so he goes undrafted. You see he puts up decent stats in the D-league so you sign him to a 10 day contract. At the end of the contract all attributes are accurately revealed and you see he's actually a 75. This type of system could account for breakout players, busts, and in-season progression mentioned in this topic.

Having players develop based on performance is a fine line however. If a guy doesn't play much his first few seasons how much does he progress or regress? What if he's thrown to the wolves so to speak and struggles? I somewhat agree that performance should be a part of how much a player progresses but the question is how much? This is especially important because there is no D-League currently. Also, some players do put up decent stats for a season but don't progress the next season whatsoever. It happens incredibly frequently.

Attribute growth can also be tricky because how do you account for someone like Marc Gasol? The most threes he's made in a season prior to this year is two. This season he has over 100. Could he always shoot this well and he just didn't pull up because of the coach or did he develop it? Having such a dramatic increase in a singular attribute is impossible to emulate in 2k.

Overall I don't know if having a potential rating for EVERY attribute is the answer only because there are so many attributes already and you run the risk of cluttering player attributes. Roster creators are given that much more to do and I seriously doubt the draft class generator will simulate this well at first.

Maybe have potentials for groups of attributes like shooting, rebounding, interior defense, perimeter defense, and IQ. Physical attributes are debatable because how often do players see a significant change in how how high they jump or how fast they run. Players do become stronger, yes, but not much else changes.

Sorry, this was a lot longer than I intended. Interesting, difficult and important topic for 2k as it affects how leagues develop in the long run.

[BBallcoach]

Re: What do you guys feel should be done with the potential system in 2k18?

you make good points. I think the biggest thing is we need randomized busts. If you draft a guy 80 overall he always will turn into a god. Why can't we get some of these guys to bust or other way around hidden gems. A static potential rating kills any hope of that ever becoming a reality.

[VAWereWolf65]

Re: What do you guys feel should be done with the potential system in 2k18?

you make good points. I think the biggest thing is we need randomized busts. If you draft a guy 80 overall he always will turn into a god. Why can't we get some of these guys to bust or other way around hidden gems. A static potential rating kills any hope of that ever becoming a reality.

There's a way you can create busts yourself but that kind of defeats the purpose of a bust.

That's why i only use custom user edited draft classes

[Comduklakis]

Re: What do you guys feel should be done with the potential system in 2k18?

Lot of good ideas in this thread. They definitely need to to have busts and suprises instead of pretty standard, predictable progression. And having potential for more areas than just an overall also is important.

That said, what I do in my myleague (30 team control) is I do my own progression/regression. Every team gets to protect 4 and then I use a random number generator site to randomly pick a player on each team to regress. Then when they are selected the amount they regress is also selected by the random number generator.

I do the same thing with progression. This allows for a bit of surprise improvements or a more prominent player suddenly going into the tank.

But in a perfect world 2k would have each category have it's own potential and have a random factor for both players who end up as surprises (e.g. Yogi Ferrell) or busts (Thabbeet, Bennett, etc.) and also have a random factor for guys that stay at a high level into their mid 30s and guys who may regress hard at 30 (especially in speed).

One complaint I also have is IQ. Players should almost never regress in IQ. Players don't get dumber. In fact players get smarter into their 30s, allowing them to compensate for a reduced level of physical skills. yet 2k just does these blanket regressions were a guy like Ginobili actually goes down in IQ in areas such as passing and shot selection. It's asinine.

[CDazzle91]

Re: What do you guys feel should be done with the potential system in 2k18?

So say you have a player like Yogi Ferrell. He puts up good stats in college but initial scouting pegs him at around 65. He's also 23 y/o, 6', 180 lbs and not overly athletic so he goes undrafted. You see he puts up decent stats in the D-league so you sign him to a 10 day contract. At the end of the contract all attributes are accurately revealed and you see he's actually a 75. This type of system could account for breakout players, busts, and in-season progression mentioned in this topic.

This is a good way to make scouting a bit more useful, I do like this idea of not knowing a guy's overall. To me we need to see the scouting system in general and draft storylines more fleshed out to make this work but it's a good idea.

Having players develop based on performance is a fine line however. If a guy doesn't play much his first few seasons how much does he progress or regress? What if he's thrown to the wolves so to speak and struggles? I somewhat agree that performance should be a part of how much a player progresses but the question is how much? This is especially important because there is no D-League currently.

That's why I suggested a slider for this. I think some people will want it to have a huge impact, others not so much. So a 'Player Development Based on Stats' or some such slider could be good.

Also, some players do put up decent stats for a season but don't progress the next season whatsoever. It happens incredibly frequently.

True, but they don't have to progress every year. Just the breakout year. Take Malcolm Brogdon this year, he went up from like a 70 to a 78 or something. Now next year say he starts at a 78 and plays exactly the same as this year, no progression. He should still be the same rating or maybe down a couple like a 76. He wouldn't drop all the way back down to a 70 if he plays like a 78. Now, if he played horrible, yeah drop him back down to a 70 or below.

Attribute growth can also be tricky because how do you account for someone like Marc Gasol? The most threes he's made in a season prior to this year is two. This season he has over 100. Could he always shoot this well and he just didn't pull up because of the coach or did he develop it? Having such a dramatic increase in a singular attribute is impossible to emulate in 2k.

Not really impossible at all. Just not in the current system, which is the problem. If Gasol (or another example Ibaka) had a 30 3pt rating but had a potential of 75 in that attribute, it would take focus on that attribute to get him there. You would have to focus all of his training in the offseason on that attribute, maybe even at the expense of training something like his inside game, which is part of why the Training Camp system needs re-vamped. Maybe I want to spend my entire offseason focusing on Gasol's 3 pt shooting and get him to that potential, I could do that with a system that allows me to distribute training points to players and even individual attributes. I should be able to focus on training specific areas more thoroughly than a 2pt increase.

Overall I don't know if having a potential rating for EVERY attribute is the answer only because there are so many attributes already and you run the risk of cluttering player attributes. Roster creators are given that much more to do and I seriously doubt the draft class generator will simulate this well at first.

Yeah, it would be problematic for roster creators but I feel like most roster creators do these things because they enjoy the added realism, which more potentials would definitely add to the realism. And the draft class generator is pretty busted anyway you can't really break it that much worse than it is lol.

Maybe have potentials for groups of attributes like shooting, rebounding, interior defense, perimeter defense, and IQ. Physical attributes are debatable because how often do players see a significant change in how how high they jump or how fast they run. Players do become stronger, yes, but not much else changes.

That's a good point, some things just don't increase really, so this isn't a bad idea to group them together like that.

All in all, good thoughts and points. To me personally, I don't agree with these thoughts being enough to nix the idea all together, but I can see the merit in many of them.

[VAWereWolf65]

Re: What do you guys feel should be done with the potential system in 2k18?

While we're on the topic of scouting, the MyLeague and MyGM scouting is literally one of the laziest and most atrocious things in the game. It's like no matter what his tendencies or attributes are, the #1 prospect always averages 30+ points per game and if he's a big man he usually averages 10+ rebounds even if his rebounding attributes aren't that good. at least make it a little bit like real college. Extremely rarely do players average 30+ in college, 2k should know that

[Baebae32]

Re: What do you guys feel should be done with the potential system in 2k18?

I'm gonna use some College Hoops players to help illustrate my point better. Sorry for the crap quality, lol. This is a player off of Arizona named Chadd Hanavan from one of my Legacy's. He has A potential and a first round grade. He is already a good player. As we can see from his attributes he still has room to grow and be even better. However, he has a cap on certain things. His 3 shot (this is college now so it would dip some in the NBA) is probably about maxed at 76. His potential is here is a C+. Actually, a lot of his offensive skillset is about maxed. He has room to in low post offense, dunking and fouls. This are the only areas I would like to see him grow as a pro. I don't want him shooting like Steph in the league, ever. I want something like this in NBA 2K. Not just that static potential.

Yup this is exactly what is needed. As long as there is an actual number under the hood that is displayed as a letter grade in a scouting report its perfect

[Junior Moe]

Re: What do you guys feel should be done with the potential system in 2k18?

I'm gonna use some College Hoops players to help illustrate my point better. Sorry for the crap quality, lol. This is a player off of Arizona named Chadd Hanavan from one of my Legacy's. He has A potential and a first round grade. He is already a good player. As we can see from his attributes he still has room to grow and be even better. However, he has a cap on certain things. His 3 shot (this is college now so it would dip some in the NBA) is probably about maxed at 76. His potential is here is a C+. Actually, a lot of his offensive skillset is about maxed. He has room to in low post offense, dunking and fouls. This are the only areas I would like to see him grow as a pro. I don't want him shooting like Steph in the league, ever. I want something like this in NBA 2K. Not just that static potential.

[VAWereWolf65]

Re: What do you guys feel should be done with the potential system in 2k18?

I'm gonna use some College Hoops players to help illustrate my point better. Sorry for the crap quality, lol. This is a player off of Arizona named Chadd Hanavan from one of my Legacy's. He has A potential and a first round grade. He is already a good player. As we can see from his attributes he still has room to grow and be even better. However, he has a cap on certain things. His 3 shot (this is college now so it would dip some in the NBA) is probably about maxed at 76. His potential is here is a C+. Actually, a lot of his offensive skillset is about maxed. He has room to in low post offense, dunking and fouls. This are the only areas I would like to see him grow as a pro. I don't want him shooting like Steph in the league, ever. I want something like this in NBA 2K. Not just that static potential.

Yea I totally agree. I see way too many guys who have 90+ three point attributes in MyLeague which is why we should be able to set the potential high for that player (the highest level the attribute will reach during this players career)

Then on the other hand, players athleticism attributes regress way too much during their career which is why we should also have a potential low attribute (the lowest level the attribute will reach during this players career)

I think it would add a whole new element to the game. Maybe you draft a Center who can't shoot the ball, but after a few years he develops a usable jumpshot just like guys like Brook Lopez, Marc Gasol, etc. Or maybe you draft a guy who shoots the lights out in his rookie season, but isn't a good shooter for the rest of his career. Maybe you draft a guy like Blake Griffin who was an amazing rebounder in his rookie season, but has slowly become a worse and worse rebounder throughout his career.

The possibilities would be endless with something like this in the game

[timmuh1515]

Re: What do you guys feel should be done with the potential system in 2k18?

Having one attribute for potential is definitely an issue.

If nothing else players coming in should have a potential "floor" which might be lower then their current ability and a potential "ceiling".

That alone could give variety based on injury or playing time or simply luck with development.

So a guy like Fultz has a high floor...making him a safe pick but also a high ceiling. Maybe Ball has a higher ceiling but lower floor and better chance to bust.

[BluFu]

Re: What do you guys feel should be done with the potential system in 2k18?

Forget player progression, the auto-generated draft class ratings are still pretty crap right now. The logic behind these ratings needs to be fixed first.

[VAWereWolf65]

Re: What do you guys feel should be done with the potential system in 2k18?

Forget player progression, the auto-generated draft class ratings are still pretty crap right now. The logic behind these ratings needs to be fixed first.

I'd rather have progression fixed first. Classes can be fixed by editing them yourself or downloading someone else's classes who have put time into them. Progression isn't something that can be fixed unless you're willing to go edit every single players attributes and tendencies year by year for every player in the league. I don't think anyone has the time or desire to do that, It would take days.

[DatIsraeliGuy]

Re: What do you guys feel should be done with the potential system in 2k18?

If this would be a thing I'm sure roster makers are gonna love that