NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

[Da_Czar]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

Czar just wanted to jump in and say how much I REALLY appreciate all this engagement. I also wanted to call out for everyone the courage it takes in an industry like this to do this kind of detailed work that doesn't lend itself to big marketing back of the box call outs. Those updates you describe are really big, even if only a minority of players really get that.

I'm too busy this week to be deep in these thread but the questions are getting asked. But I didn't want to not show up and show my mad respect when you get to show up like this.

Thank you!!!


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[jlaz]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

stepbacks and pullips look like they've been toned down a bit, czar. stepbacks don t appear to cover as much ground as they used to, and pullups look a bit weak on the vertical, or maybe it's just the type of pullup. that's not necessarily a bad thing, as challenges from defender s look to be toned down as well.

ugh, maybe im just trippin.

[jlaz]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

btw, i'd love to hear about the improved triple threat mechanic, if u could. I remember in past years the cpu would never shoot from a tt even with their tendency maxed. it would always end in an exaggerated dribble into drive.

[Da_Czar]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

Ohhhh, I like the sound of that. Follow up question on that front:

If the AI happened to roll out five of the same archtype, would a secondary archtype kick in for one (or some or all) of the players? For instance, five ball movers are out there on the floor -- the AI (hopefully) wouldn't pass the ball around until the shot clock ran out.

I'm going to assume that, if five ball movers are out on the floor, even if their inclination is to pass, one of their tendencies would kick in if an opening presented itself and they'll take a shot if they're open.

Unrelated question: is the Day 1 patch on Day 1 the game is playable, 9/15 (Early tip-off) or Day 1 it's technically releasing for everyone 9/19?

Apologies, i just corrected my original post each player can have from 1-4 of the freelance archetypes. So except for the rarest of circumstances we should never have 5 players with only 1 on the floor. The archetypes are ranked for the players who have more than one.



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[Da_Czar]

NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

Ohhhh, I like the sound of that. Follow up question on that front:

If the AI happened to roll out five of the same archtype, would a secondary archtype kick in for one (or some or all) of the players? For instance, five ball movers are out there on the floor -- the AI (hopefully) wouldn't pass the ball around until the shot clock ran out.

I'm going to assume that, if five ball movers are out on the floor, even if their inclination is to pass, one of their tendencies would kick in if an opening presented itself and they'll take a shot if they're open.

Unrelated question: is the Day 1 patch on Day 1 the game is playable, 9/15 (Early tip-off) or Day 1 it's technically releasing for everyone 9/19?

Yes correct at some point someone has to shoot the ball, when the clock gets low enough someone will step up.

The ball-mover designation really helps the ball find scorers without need to script out action to get the ball to a scorer. It kind of slick in that way. So that Lebron with 4 scrubs they will continue to find Lebron unless they are left open at some point.


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[trekfan]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

Yes correct at some point someone has to shoot the ball, when the clock get's low enough someone will step up.

The ball-mover designation really helps the ball find scorers without need to script out action to get the ball to a scorer. It kind of slick in that way. So that Lebron with 4 scrubs they will continue to find Lebron unless they are left open at some point.


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Perfect, that's what I was hoping for. This will make the AI play much more intelligently even if they use non-optimal substitution patterns. As long as that ball keeps moving/action keeps happening, a crack will show in the defense and a shot will be taken -- even if it ends up being a poor one, at least the AI will be aware enough to not jack up a contested triple with someone like DeAndre Jordan.

Much thanks for the response, sir.

[Da_Czar]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

I was thinking of situations in which the screener is not dynamic at that point in the play, so standing in the corner or posting up.

Take Quick Swing 2.

After reversing the ball to, ballhandler waits there for the double pindown screen to spring the shooter at top of arc. Whenever I run that play, and am faking ISO behavior while I wait for the double pindown, I look at the teammate who is posted up on the low block and think: it would be cool to run P&R with him while that double pindown is brewing.

Or let's say in the Elevator play: midway through, ballhandler is at a wing, waiting for shooter to run back up to top of the arc, through the "doors." (After shooter may have set screen for wing who has run baseline from weak corner to strong corner.)

There are a few seconds, again, pretending to wind up for a Hero Ball drive while I wait for off-ball action to develop, that I wish I could run P&R with that wing who is now static in the corner. Or maybe do a dribble handoff with him, and if the play's main action continues, then it's the wing who will pass to the shooter running through the closing doors.

Generally, I'm thinking about times when one is waiting for off-ball screening that may involve 3 teammates, but during which there is a 4th teammate who can screen without disrupting the play's actions at that moment, at least.

Undoubtedly there are factors I just don't understand, and compromises that y'all have agonized over and we players fixate on what we want and lose sight of what we've been given.

I thought it might be possible to do something ad hoc during a play and for the play to only "break" when and if that ad hoc action has put someone out of position for next action, if any.

But the two examples above concern the final stage of their plays, and doing a manual P&R as described doesn't actually break the play.

Hopefully I've made sense here, in my description. Even if my suggestion is non feasible or short sighted.

Thanks, again, for having such an in-depth dialog with us here.

Ok. I got you now. This is the question that would cause me problems. How do we differentiate between the user like you who expects the play to keep going while executing a pnr with the strong side post man.

And the user who is bailing on the play and wants the spacing to run a pick and roll ?

I totally see where you want to have the ability to execute basically a distraction action to keep a user focused on you while having someone float off a down screen.

That is the main question but I will keep thinking on this.


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[Da_Czar]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

I don't know how to quote from another thread, but this quote from Davez in the MyLeague thread has me even more excited:

"Quick update, then I'll really disappear for a while...

The bearded wonder, aka Leftos, just added the system proficiency stuff to Edit Staff, so you'll be able to change the coach's preferred system, active system, and proficiency rating for each of the available systems. He also added the max attributes for each of the coach attribute ratings (this is the highest they can progress to), and years left on contract (can't add the contract value for a plethora of reasons, though). So, he came to the rescue for that stuff that I had previously said weren't being done this year (and Yu Gu - aka Lord YGu in the in-game social feed - was the rockstar that got the edit name in last second)."

So we can edit this stuff in ML so after a few years we could really change the teams and league up and have that reflected in their playstyle.

See. This is why I love working here man. Dudes have a crazy committment to this game!


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[magicman32]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

Great stuff!! I'm really looking forward to seeing improved fast breaks and the new motion system.

[Baebae32]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

Great questions. First before I get into splaining let me say with no alpha scorers in the game you are bound to see some ugly and unintelligent possessions.

So it won't be totally negated this year regardless of what I am about to type.

Now one of several things we didn't talk about in the blog our freelance player archetype system was cleaned up in a major way this year. Out side of plays each player is ID'd based on his ratings and tendencies on what type of player he is in freelance.

This is separate from freelance offenses and their branches etc ok.

These are freelance player archetypes.
Iso,
Scorer
Pnr
Cutter
High post
Low post
Screener
Ball mover.

Each player on the floor identifies as UP TO FOUR of these archetypes and this is a hidden system it has been there for a few years but it is for the AI so that as they are moving the ball the game knows what type of player this is outside of his play-types.

So what you should see is ball movers moving the ball to one of the scoring archetypes and then them going to work be it through quick pnr or Iso.

In the past the system wasn't correctly identifying players and thier archetypes. This year that is really cleaned up well. So you will see more pnr's when actions don't complete as they move the ball.

Last year they were only looking for scorers and with none on the floor... Well there ya go. Again don't forget what I said earlier. Still bound to see some poor clock management at times.


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Thanks for answering my questions big czar. Now i wonder what are the values/combinations of ratings & tendencies to dictate what hidden archetype a player is assigned. I only ask this from a roster editor standpoint. I understand that you said this system is hidden but still i had to ask lol.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

24 I was honestly disappointed that more people have not noticed that. very proud of that work and as I told you the better the rest of the game gets the more that is going to shine through.

We built that just like I would teach someone in my gym it gets more refined each year.


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You should be proud of it man.. I've seen it grow since 2K16.

Some of the stuff I saw the AI do in those situations in 2K17 was amazing...and now they have even more awareness of those situations? Going to be lovely. Great job...hopefully more take notice.

Always going to acknowledge the areas where you guy's are making strides man, even if it's not my favorite 2k edition overall.....doesn't feel right ranting about 'unecessary' patches if I'm not. We have a part in that too.
..

[BasketballGHS]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

Czar you are the man. One issue I saw in other blog

I have found great sliders on pro the last few years that don't feel the AI is cheating at higher level, but you don't get the full power of ACE with adjustments unless you play higher in 18?

[Teddy_Long]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

czar, my biggest grip has been iso plays to big men. i hope we are no going to see big men still bringing up the ball on iso plays in the 4th quarter.

[Da_Czar]

Re: NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

Czar you are the man. One issue I saw in other blog



I have found great sliders on pro the last few years that don't feel the AI is cheating at higher level, but you don't get the full power of ACE with adjustments unless you play higher in 18?

What you can do is go to SuperStar/ HOF and adjust the sliders from there to get the game to play how you like it and still receive the benefits of ACE.

The reasoning was this. For new people to the series and people not great on the sticks we don't want to do all this adjusting when they find success. We needed some level of the game to be playable and successful for new people to the series that way we can turn on everything on the higher levels without being concerned about not being accessible.

It is a much fairer game on Superstar and HOF this year than it has been in the past. Not cheese free mind you but definitely not as frustrating in the time I have put in on those levels.


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[Da_Czar]

NBA 2K18 Offensive Tendencies, AI Execution & Motion Blog From Da_Czar

czar, my biggest grip has been iso plays to big men. i hope we are no going to see big men still bringing up the ball on iso plays in the 4th quarter.

Teddy I had not heard that as an issue fam. I blame you for that cause you could have dm'd me on here LOL.





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