2K19: Long Pass Spam

[Kushmir]

Re: 2K19: Long Pass Spam

Yeah I guess he should of been going back there.

Here is the thing though. 2k has to leave some holes. To me Embid is in perfect position to start. Right up until the point he starts coming forward. You can't expect the CPU to cover everything.

I'm guessing Embid switched into half court cover my man mode. And probably played tight. Came forward to play tight. Blow by....


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Even average defenders shouldn't be ball-watching and conceding the catch...it puts them in unrealistic and unnecessary situations on defense. NBA defenders break on the ball, they don't just sit back and chill. Cross-court and long passes get stolen and deflected pretty regularly....and they should, like the play below:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/hteNuJq_CsU" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Kushmir]

Re: 2K19: Long Pass Spam

When players are running back on defense their backs have to be to the back of the offense as they get back. Once they settle down. They should be all facing forward. Defense is set now. But this is what I call mini transition.

Any problems with the passes below?

https://youtu.be/tUs1Iy_kVII

The big man is always the last to get back. But he shouldn't be as fast as a guard or forward.

None of those were long passes tho.

And it depends on the situation: are they defending a fast break? Is it transition? Please notice every play I posted in the OP was after a score....no defense in the NBA should have trouble getting back facing the ball in that situation.

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: 2K19: Long Pass Spam

Playing against the AI the long pass has been nerfed beyond all usefulness.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: 2K19: Long Pass Spam

Long passes aren't actually the main issue.

The real problem is that the defense still doesn't set up at an NBA level speed.

Whether you pass the ball quickly up the court or you take a player and sprint up the court yourself, you will probably expose some massive holes in the defense.

This.

Get the defenders back quickly and facing the ball and egregious long pass situations take care of themselves....

We don't need the ability to throw a competent long pass in the correct situation nerfed. As it stands the band aid bobbling fix adds to enough eye roll situations.

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[jfsolo]

Re: 2K19: Long Pass Spam

Do Whaaaaat? I guess Ball-You-Man hasn't been a hoops concepts since the 60s? C'mon Jeebs...you been drinking bruh?

Defenses get back facing the ball and covering their assignment as a rule--its not like being in two places at once. I get that you want to pass the ball a certain way but I think we both agree good gameplay comes first.

Players in this game sauntering back on D with their back fully turned with no awareness of the ball and their man is one of the worse design flaws of the game. This isn't 8-year-olds playing at the Y, it's the NBA. This has driven me crazy for years.

[Breakstarter]

Re: 2K19: Long Pass Spam

Not that this nshould be every situation, but on more than one occasion ive seen lebron(just for arguments sake im using lebron) catch passes from dwade or K love or LeBron himself throwing the long pass because the inbounder knows Lebron will outrun and has the hands to catch said outlet passes. Defense shouldnt matter when your Hands and IQ are a notch above the rest. I mean sure the passer has to be above average and the catcher should be an elite athlete to ensure he gets passed his opponent, but it's not uncommon to see these passes in real life. If anything, I'm not saying he started, but I believe K Love and Lebron kind of started to make it popular to throw fullcourt passes as a regular thing....not like Magic Johnson wasnt attempting those back in the days, but lets be serious, magic had no one as athletically gifted as Lebron or Dwade to pass to that would outrun the entire defense, and have the hands to catch said passes after the run.

https://<iframe width="560" height="...reen></iframe>

Heres actually a 9 and a half minute video of players just tossing up fullcourt
passes regardless of the defense. It should be reflected in NBA 2K THAT WHEN THE OPPORTUNITY ALOWS IT, THAT FULLCOURT PASSES SHOULD BE ALLOWED WITHOUT SOME CHEAP BOBBLE CATCH ANIMATION RUINING THE THE PLAY.

https://<iframe width="560" height="...reen></iframe>

[Kushmir]

Re: 2K19: Long Pass Spam

This.

Get the defenders back quickly and facing the ball and egregious long pass situations take care of themselves....

We don't need the ability to throw a competent long pass in the correct situation nerfed. As it stands the band aid bobbling fix adds to enough eye roll situations.

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"In the correct situation" is the operative term...i've never had a problem there. The thing we need to remember is in a SIM things are going to happen outside of our control (the alternative is Madden with no penalties and absolutely nothing happening not initiated by the user) I just feel like we have to be OK with that.

Incompetent defenders clueless how to rebound or with constant bail-out fouls late in the shot clock is one thing....but I doubt any of us have issues with AI players fouling in mismatches--or when they're in recovery position after getting beat....or Deandre Jordan not hitting 15 footers. Things like loose ball fouls and bad passes are good gameplay mechanics....THEY HAPPEN.

All i'm saying is if full-court passes have a higher chance of being bad passes its not a bad thing.

[Kushmir]

Re: 2K19: Long Pass Spam

https://<iframe width="560" height="...reen></iframe>

Ehhhh.....I try to stay away from highlight films. Ratings should represent what happens most often--not least. I always have an issue when people try to make amazing plays seem routine. Presenting it as something that we should be able to trigger is how we got chase-down blocks with JJ Redick and Madden's helmet catch and the OBJ play 2-3 times per game in Madden 13 and 16.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/QOOMvgyC89g" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fbkprC0qODM" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/SCixbPxbCrw" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/a_N6wlx_vk4" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/0sIiZFNwb7E" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This is the same mentality that has bad shooters in 2K18 hitting threes since they've hit a few at a pitiful rate in their career. My advice? When you have a situation and you're promoting the thing that happens the least, the one in the absolute minority? REEVALUATE.

[Guard-ian]

Re: 2K19: Long Pass Spam

I am with Kushmuir 100% here, long passes as they are make the game very unrealistic (IMO), I have note it specially in ProAM...

[Hellquist]

Re: 2K19: Long Pass Spam

Long passes aren't actually the main issue.

The real problem is that the defense still doesn't set up at an NBA level speed.

Whether you pass the ball quickly up the court or you take a player and sprint up the court yourself, you will probably expose some massive holes in the defense.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Successful cherry picking and easy, open transition threes because YOUR AI teammates are dumber than a box of crayons and aren't aware or too slow. They are slower than a snail on a treadmill to react. Offense is still too fast. Defense is still at a slug's pace. That's why these plays happen. The transition defense still sucks. Defensive awareness still sucks. Speed discrepancies are still there.

I guess someone here said Da Czar mentioned the offense is light years ahead of the defense and it's pretty obvious. Might as well name the thread 2K21. I don't see this changing and I don't have confidence this stuff will be fixed and if it is fixed it will be a Band-aid.

[jfsolo]

Re: 2K19: Long Pass Spam

"In the correct situation" is the operative term...i've never had a problem there. The thing we need to remember is in a SIM things are going to happen outside of our control (the alternative is Madden with no penalties and absolutely nothing happening not initiated by the user) I just feel like we have to be OK with that.

Incompetent defenders clueless how to rebound or with constant bail-out fouls late in the shot clock is one thing....but I doubt any of us have issues with AI players fouling in mismatches--or when they're in recovery position after getting beat....or Deandre Jordan not hitting 15 footers. Things like loose ball fouls and bad passes are good gameplay mechanics....THEY HAPPEN.

All i'm saying is if full-court passes have a higher chance of being bad passes its not a bad thing.

This is the elephant in the room. As you say, realistic human foibles have been lobbied out the competitive space in Madden by the most high profile people playing the game, so a lot of real football situations are probably forever gone from H2H play in that game. Nonsensical mechanics like 100% guaranteed success at certain thresholds is a prime of example of H2H play being ruined by User Agency.

My gut tell me that with exception of the E-Sport league, I would wager that this is going to be the reality for NBA 2K as well. Most players seem to want User Agency to always win out over realistic NBA basketball concepts, and the H2H space will be forever worse for it.

[jeebs9]

Re: 2K19: Long Pass Spam

I find this thread hilarious because just last month or year there was a thread about not being able to throw long passes. I make a video showing you can under the right situations. And now we're saying you can spam passes. This why I'm so WTF. You can find the thread... I think it was called passing in 2k sucks or something like that smh.

I haven't seen anyone beat someone with long passes as tactic to win in this game. Maybe 2 a game. But this thread feels like we're in 2k16 which that was abused to the point of no return.

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[Kushmir]

Re: 2K19: Long Pass Spam

I find this thread hilarious because just last month or year there was a thread about not being able to throw long passes. I make a video showing you can under the right situations. And now we're saying you can spam passes. This why I'm so WTF. You can find the thread... I think it was called passing in 2k sucks or something like that smh.

I haven't seen anyone beat someone with long passes as tactic to win in this game. Maybe 2 a game. But this thread feels like we're in 2k16 which that was abused to the point of no return.

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Trash threads are a thing on OS--that someone did a thread on something doesn't make it relevant...we both know that.

I'm not sure what game they were playing because 2K18 has always had an issue with ridiculous passes being completed and players being able to inbound to half-court (breaking the defensive integrity) because of non or unacceptable reactions from the defenders.

ALWAYS.

Look at the date on these videos, its 9/16...the date after the game released. Now look at the reactions...look at guys like KAT and Dieng just sit and watch the ball being thrown full-court with no reaction.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/nRfZkaCXSR4" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Watch Ben celebrate as AD walks right up the middle of the floor...Covington's back is to the ball.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/_69KPY3DIYI" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

McConnell with his back to the ball? Johnson facing the right way (shocker) but he never even attempts to break on the ball? That's how defenders behave?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Von5faEThfU" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

You're gonna sit here with a straight face and tell me those are ok? Seriously?

LOL! Jeebs, homey you're violating one of the cardinal violations of gaming right now. You're putting your play-style before progress. We've all had a loophole that benefited us ridiculously (mine was the 2-inch pass) but when more realistic basketball and our favorite loophole are the choices?

You gotta choose realistic basketball. PERIOD.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Re: 2K19: Long Pass Spam

For full court passes, it seems only players that have high defensive ratings have the forethought to run after terrible passes and intercept them (which I don't agree with because it doesn't take skill to take a couple of steps to catch such a terrible pass attempt). Other than that, the CPU will only deny a passing lane off a full court pass if they are directly in the line of the pass and can stand still and catch it.

Its hilariously easy to through 3/4 and full court passes to players that are surrounded by 3 defenders. At most the offensive player will bobble the ball a bit. How they don't get stolen or tipped in the air 95% of the time is beyond me

[jeebs9]

Re: 2K19: Long Pass Spam

Trash threads are a thing on OS--that someone did a thread on something doesn't make it relevant...we both know that.

I'm not sure what game they were playing because 2K18 has always had an issue with ridiculous passes being completed and players being able to inbound to half-court (breaking the defensive integrity) because of non or unacceptable reactions from the defenders.

ALWAYS.

Look at the date on these videos, its 9/16...the date after the game released. Now look at the reactions...look at guys like KAT and Dieng just sit and watch the ball bring thrown full-court with no reaction.



Watch Ben celebrate as AD walks right up the middle of the floor...Covington's back is to the ball.



McConnell with his back to the ball? Johnson facing the right way (shocker) but he never even attempts to break on the ball? That's how defenders behave?



You're gonna sit here with a straight face and tell me those are ok? Seriously?

LOL! Jeebs, homey you're violating one of the cardinal violations of gaming right now. You're putting your play-style before progress. We've all had a loophole that benefited us ridiculously (mine was the 2-inch pass) but when more realistic basketball and our favorite loophole are the choices?

You gotta choose realistic basketball. PERIOD.

Yes I think you've lost your Sim mind..... Lol All 3 of those passes were legit as hell. How could you not want someone to make/complete those passes?

First pass
He is wide open!! How could you not want this to be completed?

Second pass
AD is wide open running down the middle of the floor! Again how could you say this shouldn't be a completable pass?

Third pass
This might be worst of the 3. But it's not even that bad. Because he catches it in traffic and then loses the ball.

Final comment on this subject/thread. I think I've made enough comments and videos to back up my claims. All 3 passes above result in nothing unrealistic in my humble opinion. The AD pass is the only successful play up there. I come back to what I was saying before. Yes, the CPU could use a little improvement here. BUT I think it's on the user to recognise they have to recover with the guards here. All you need to do is being the defender near by. And the offensive player will fumble the ball (giving the defense some time to recover and react or the pass will sail over his head and turnover).

YES, The celebration needs work here. I've been burned a few times myself because the CPU chooses the long celebration animation. Watching Ben Simmons looking up at the crowd while AD zoom by definitely should be looked at.

I think it's silly for anyone to think that these passes are not makeable in real life. When you have any Jason Kidd, Nash, Magic even Ball makes these type of passes on a regular. Kushmir, for you to say for me to let go of my "playing style". Not cool. That's why I'm moving on this subject.

Thanks guys.

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