Let's talk about Speed With Ball and how it should be divided up.

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  • jeebs9
    Fear is the Unknown
    • Oct 2008
    • 47568

    #16
    Re: Let's talk about Speed With Ball and how it should be divided up.

    Originally posted by ojandpizza
    Speed needs a giant overhaul in general because everyone on the game is too slow, fast breaks are slow, and myself at my age can still do an down and back sprint faster than I can make any player do one in 2k. It’s pathetic. And the amount of time it takes for a player to pass, catch, on the break is ridiculous. I’m not sure how fast breaks have taken such a massive backseat for 2k over the past few years now.

    Speed with ball I don’t think should have drastically different numbers. About 90% of people aren’t THAT much slower with the ball in their hands. So I wouldn’t like to see all bigs be slow by default if they aren’t slow players to begin with.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I don't agree with fastbreaks are slow. People just don't know how to use it or pass the ball.

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/VxnTj1ztf98" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    And you can see the speed with ball and speed here. I think add more could be good. But I'd like see how it works out. So many people just jam on the speed button when you don't even have to.

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/tUs1Iy_kVII" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    And it's not perfect either.
    Hands Down....Man Down - 2k9 memories
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IHP_5GUBQo

    Comment

    • El_Poopador
      MVP
      • Oct 2013
      • 2624

      #17
      Re: Let's talk about Speed With Ball and how it should be divided up.

      Originally posted by jeebs9
      I don't agree with fastbreaks are slow. People just don't know how to use it or pass the ball.

      <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/VxnTj1ztf98" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

      And you can see the speed with ball and speed here. I think add more could be good. But I'd like see how it works out. So many people just jam on the speed button when you don't even have to.

      <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/tUs1Iy_kVII" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

      And it's not perfect either.
      These aren't really great examples, though. Most of the clips in these videos have defenders getting back in position, and then just show either poor AI or awful human decision-making on defense. The speed and human reactions aren't really demonstrated.

      Really, the biggest issue is the differentiation in speed and quickness between players.

      <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vo_nz1Q29ao?rel=0&amp;start=19" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

      You can see how explosive guys like Rose (from a few years ago), Wall, and Westbrook are compared to everyone else on the court, and how easily they can weave between defenders and get down the court. In 2k, there isn't that separation between players. A guy like Westbrook doesn't feel much different on a break than, say, Kevin Love. It's even more evident when you try to cross over at full speed.

      Comment

      • jeebs9
        Fear is the Unknown
        • Oct 2008
        • 47568

        #18
        Re: Let's talk about Speed With Ball and how it should be divided up.

        Originally posted by El_Poopador
        These aren't really great examples, though. Most of the clips in these videos have defenders getting back in position, and then just show either poor AI or awful human decision-making on defense. The speed and human reactions aren't really demonstrated.

        Really, the biggest issue is the differentiation in speed and quickness between players.

        <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vo_nz1Q29ao?rel=0&start=19" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

        You can see how explosive guys like Rose (from a few years ago), Wall, and Westbrook are compared to everyone else on the court, and how easily they can weave between defenders and get down the court. In 2k, there isn't that separation between players. A guy like Westbrook doesn't feel much different on a break than, say, Kevin Love. It's even more evident when you try to cross over at full speed.
        What! Russell Westbrook the same as Kevin Love.... I got nothing lol.... I just showed a video with real fast breaks. And the reply is poor AI and Human mistakes lol.

        I'm good...

        Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
        Hands Down....Man Down - 2k9 memories
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IHP_5GUBQo

        Comment

        • ojandpizza
          Hall Of Fame
          • Apr 2011
          • 29807

          #19
          Re: Let's talk about Speed With Ball and how it should be divided up.

          Originally posted by jeebs9
          I don't agree with fastbreaks are slow. People just don't know how to use it or pass the ball.
          They are entirely too slow. I can run a down and back sprint faster than a guy like Westbrook can in game. The ball travels far too slow on any pass in 2k, it's just worse and more noticeable on the breaks. And players turning to catch the ball is a big of a lag. In 2k nothing is ever done in stride, the reaction time for players to catch the ball and continue running in a dribbling motion is greatly flawed.

          The fact that Stackhouse had to stop and turn to make some weird two handed pass shows my point. Nothing done on the fly. Lag when Kittles caught the ball from kid.. Stopped watching after that because it's exactly my point.

          Comment

          • Thetruth11
            Banned
            • Feb 2018
            • 474

            #20
            Re: Let's talk about Speed With Ball and how it should be divided up.

            Originally posted by ojandpizza
            Speed needs a giant overhaul in general because everyone on the game is too slow, fast breaks are slow, and myself at my age can still do an down and back sprint faster than I can make any player do one in 2k. It’s pathetic. And the amount of time it takes for a player to pass, catch, on the break is ridiculous. I’m not sure how fast breaks have taken such a massive backseat for 2k over the past few years now.

            Speed with ball I don’t think should have drastically different numbers. About 90% of people aren’t THAT much slower with the ball in their hands. So I wouldn’t like to see all bigs be slow by default if they aren’t slow players to begin with.


            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
            Idk what your player but every possession on this game is a fastbreak especially with the over celebrating animations


            Sent from my SM-G920T using Operation Sports mobile app

            Comment

            • Thetruth11
              Banned
              • Feb 2018
              • 474

              #21
              Re: Let's talk about Speed With Ball and how it should be divided up.

              The problem is we need to have 20 stat categories for my players that way there's a real uniqueness , also keep the badges to 20
              , and last let us put attribute points where we want

              Sent from my SM-G920T using Operation Sports mobile app

              Comment

              • howardphillips214
                MVP
                • Jan 2018
                • 1928

                #22
                Re: Let's talk about Speed With Ball and how it should be divided up.

                Just looked it up. Westbrook has a 97 ball handling with a 98 SWB.

                I'm asking for 75-80 ball handling and a 90 ish SWB for pure slashers.

                My 6'4 200lb playmaking slasher has 86 ball handling and 83 speed with ball. How that makes any sense is beyond me.

                Comment

                • jeebs9
                  Fear is the Unknown
                  • Oct 2008
                  • 47568

                  #23
                  Re: Let's talk about Speed With Ball and how it should be divided up.

                  Originally posted by ojandpizza
                  They are entirely too slow. I can run a down and back sprint faster than a guy like Westbrook can in game. The ball travels far too slow on any pass in 2k, it's just worse and more noticeable on the breaks. And players turning to catch the ball is a big of a lag. In 2k nothing is ever done in stride, the reaction time for players to catch the ball and continue running in a dribbling motion is greatly flawed.

                  The fact that Stackhouse had to stop and turn to make some weird two handed pass shows my point. Nothing done on the fly. Lag when Kittles caught the ball from kid.. Stopped watching after that because it's exactly my point.
                  The passing during a break could use a boost. And I see what your saying. But I think that would cause breaks to be OP in my opinion.

                  (Which pass are you talking about?)

                  Originally posted by Thetruth11
                  Idk what your player but every possession on this game is a fastbreak especially with the over celebrating animations


                  Sent from my SM-G920T using Operation Sports mobile app
                  You know I didn't have any problems this year with celebrations. Not as much as 17. 17 was really bad. You couldn't break them out.


                  This is the kind of passing I see from 90% of people. Who just don't want to move the ball on a break.
                  <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZCv3XFr0Svc" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
                  Last edited by jeebs9; 07-23-2018, 04:56 PM.
                  Hands Down....Man Down - 2k9 memories
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IHP_5GUBQo

                  Comment

                  • YourHairlineTrash
                    Banned
                    • Jul 2018
                    • 67

                    #24
                    Re: Let's talk about Speed With Ball and how it should be divided up.

                    Originally posted by howardphillips214
                    Just looked it up. Westbrook has a 97 ball handling with a 98 SWB.

                    I'm asking for 75-80 ball handling and a 90 ish SWB for pure slashers.

                    My 6'4 200lb playmaking slasher has 86 ball handling and 83 speed with ball. How that makes any sense is beyond me.



                    You want your slasher to have Westbrook speed, but you don't want his weakness which is shooting under 30% from three.

                    The player you have described would be completely gamebreaking in Pro-Am, 40% three and 90 speed with ball? Yeah, glad you're not in charge of ratings lol

                    Comment

                    • jeebs9
                      Fear is the Unknown
                      • Oct 2008
                      • 47568

                      #25
                      Re: Let's talk about Speed With Ball and how it should be divided up.

                      Originally posted by YourHairlineTrash


                      You want your slasher to have Westbrook speed, but you don't want his weakness which is shooting under 30% from three.

                      The player you have described would be completely gamebreaking in Pro-Am, 40% three and 90 speed with ball? Yeah, glad you're not in charge of ratings lol
                      He's made a few thread like this...... I think the last one was about being AD type of player lol
                      Hands Down....Man Down - 2k9 memories
                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IHP_5GUBQo

                      Comment

                      • Thetruth11
                        Banned
                        • Feb 2018
                        • 474

                        #26
                        Re: Let's talk about Speed With Ball and how it should be divided up.

                        Originally posted by jeebs9
                        The passing during a break could use a boost. And I see what your saying. But I think that would cause breaks to be OP in my opinion.

                        (Which pass are you talking about?)



                        You know I didn't have any problems this year with celebrations. Not as much as 17. 17 was really bad. You couldn't break them out.


                        This is the kind of passing I see from 90% of people. Who just don't want to move the ball on a break.
                        <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZCv3XFr0Svc" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
                        After a dunk the center would take forever idk who your playing but everyone knows this

                        Sent from my SM-G920T using Operation Sports mobile app

                        Comment

                        • UnbelievablyRAW
                          MVP
                          • Sep 2011
                          • 1245

                          #27
                          Re: Let's talk about Speed With Ball and how it should be divided up.

                          Jeebs, your videos just showed how to run a break. It doesn't show the differentiation between speeds. Like that other user said, it just showed how to take advantage of some of the awful AI positioning on fast breaks.

                          You aren't able to do one man fast breaks with guys like Westbrook without having someone else close behind him. Thats not realistic at all. Very few people are catching up to guys like Wall and Westbrook in a dead sprint even when they have the ball

                          Comment

                          • jeebs9
                            Fear is the Unknown
                            • Oct 2008
                            • 47568

                            #28
                            Re: Let's talk about Speed With Ball and how it should be divided up.

                            Originally posted by UnbelievablyRAW
                            Jeebs, your videos just showed how to run a break. It doesn't show the differentiation between speeds. Like that other user said, it just showed how to take advantage of some of the awful AI positioning on fast breaks.

                            You aren't able to do one man fast breaks with guys like Westbrook without having someone else close behind him. Thats not realistic at all. Very few people are catching up to guys like Wall and Westbrook in a dead sprint even when they have the ball
                            I know what your trying to say. But my video shows without ball speed. Who to use with ball speed. Running the break isn't about top speed all the time. It's about pacing yourself with your teammates to make the defense choose someone to stop. Kerry Kittles speed with the ball is 70. But his speed without ball is 88.


                            Everyone remember the running man animation they took out from last year's game? Everyone complained about how unnatural it was for a player to run like that. That was your one man fast break animation. This year to attack a true one on one it's even easier. All you need to do is create angles to get by.

                            It's kind of shocking to hear people don't think they can attack with Russell Westbrook of all players in a one on one break.

                            I will agree though, Attacking with dribble moves in this area can be hard. Because you have to let go of speed to do effective dribble moves.


                            Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
                            Last edited by jeebs9; 07-23-2018, 06:31 PM.
                            Hands Down....Man Down - 2k9 memories
                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IHP_5GUBQo

                            Comment

                            • El_Poopador
                              MVP
                              • Oct 2013
                              • 2624

                              #29
                              Re: Let's talk about Speed With Ball and how it should be divided up.

                              Originally posted by jeebs9
                              I know what your trying to say. But my video shows without ball speed. Who to use with ball speed. Running the break isn't about top speed all the time. It's about pacing yourself with your teammates to make the defense choose someone to stop. Kerry Kittles speed with the ball is 70. But his speed without ball is 88.


                              Everyone remember the running man animation they took out from last year's game? Everyone complained about how unnatural it was for a player to run like that. That was your one man fast break animation. This year to attack a true one on one it's even easier. All you need to do is create angles to get by.

                              It's kind of shocking to hear people don't think they can attack with Russell Westbrook of all players in a one on one break.

                              I will agree though, Attacking with dribble moves in this certain can be hold. Because you have to let go of speed to do effective dribble moves.


                              Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
                              This whole thread is about speed though. No one said you can't run a break successfully. We're saying you can't run a break the same way that a lot of these guys do in real life because there is not nearly enough differentiation in how fast they are and how they move in the game.

                              Comment

                              • TheFinalEvent97
                                MVP
                                • Jul 2016
                                • 1519

                                #30
                                Re: Let's talk about Speed With Ball and how it should be divided up.

                                Originally posted by El_Poopador
                                This whole thread is about speed though. No one said you can't run a break successfully. We're saying you can't run a break the same way that a lot of these guys do in real life because there is not nearly enough differentiation in how fast they are and how they move in the game.
                                Not sure if JYoung AD still has the clip somewhere but this post is after a walkon game with Jyoung, Housh and Me+ plus a few others

                                "Here's a short clip showing a 7'3" 340 pure post scorer that has a 30-something speed with ball rating running a fastbreak side-by-side with my 6'2" 225 sharpshooting slasher that has 91 speed and 91 acceleration ratings:



                                WHAT IS THIS CHEESE?!?!?!?!



                                I swear the speed and acceleration ratings mean nothing in 2K18, and once you step onto the Pro Am court, all of the athleticism stats get equalized."

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