How 2K is like Street Fighter V

[Optik]

https://youtu.be/iSgA_nK_w3A

A video analysis of Street Fighter's reduced skill gap. A lot of things in this video you will have heard about before in discussions about 2K's problems.

One thing I just want to point out is that the narrator mentioned that a smaller variety of combos are being used compared to before - in 2k competitive play, the post game is non-existent and you don't need complex dribble moves to get past your defender.

With the company's priority of interests - sponsors and casuals first - don't expect the drivel any of you have subjected to in the 2k league, to improve any time soon.

[lareka]

Re: How 2K is like Street Fighter V

https://youtu.be/iSgA_nK_w3A

A video analysis of Street Fighter's reduced skill gap. A lot of things in this video you will have heard about before in discussions about 2K's problems.

One thing I just want to point out is that the narrator mentioned that a smaller variety of combos are being used compared to before - in 2k competitive play, the post game is non-existent and you don't need complex dribble moves to get past your defender.

With the company's priority of interests - sponsors and casuals first - don't expect the drivel any of you have subjected to in the 2k league, to improve any time soon.

Thank you for the post & share.

It is quite common for games nowadays actually.

I remember like playing a game on "hard" difficulty in late 90s or early 2000s, you were sweating and it was very hard to beat a game at "hard" difficulty. Nowadays - since last 5 years- my default difficulty for gmaes is "hard" and it feels like "normal" barely a challenge

In terms of applying this to 2K is all i can say is in the past we had more complicated moves especially on the post, now it's a bit easier to execute them but i don't know if it's a bad thing or not. The bad thing for me is 2K direction. They are going where money is

[The 24th Letter]

Re: How 2K is like Street Fighter V

Great video that everyone in the FGC has probably seen.

I know "Skill Gap" is the hot term around the 2k community right now, and it's obviously used here... but there's really no comparison between the two genres, especially when one is attempting to replicate a sport.

As someone who actually plays SFV and other competitive fighting games the comparisons always drive me crazy...

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[Thunderhorse]

Re: How 2K is like Street Fighter V

Great video that everyone in the FGC has probably seen.

I know "Skill Gap" is the hot term around the 2k community right now, and it's obviously used here... but there's really no comparison between the two genres, especially when one is attempting to replicate a sport.

As someone who actually plays SFV and other competitive fighting games the comparisons always drive me crazy...

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I disagree, I think the comparison has legitimate validity.

I grew up playing MK and never tried SF until SF4. SF was a game that demanded an incredible amount of skill to "master" (so to speak). Knowledge of inputs, timing, reflexes, understanding character differences. Very different from a game like MK and their "Dial a combo".

2K used to be a game like SF imo. There used to be checks and counters for what felt like everything. I used to have control over how I dribbled the ball, how I went up for a dunk or layup. I don't have that anymore.

I've lost count of how many times I've gone up for a right hand dunk with the defender on the left side expecting an appropriate and safe dunk just to watch my player do a damn windmill or something. I stopped counting how many times my player decided to switch ball hands dribbling up court screwing up my dribble combos and have conceded to just use the left/right BS so I don't get a turnover and piss off my teammates.

It's unfortunate that this title has gone this way and I hope 19 is different.

[triplechin]

Re: How 2K is like Street Fighter V

I agree there is a certain difference (I shouldn't be able to consistently go 5/5 from deep with Kendrick Perkins no matter how skilled I am) but it's still a decent comparison. When some moves are too OP (Limitless + Deadeye, blow-bys, snatchbacks) they get overused and gameplay is boring. Definitely agree with the sentiment things to be better balanced so different builds and moves are used to get closer to real, and entertaining, gameplay.

[Housh123]

Re: How 2K is like Street Fighter V

I always liken 2k skill gap to fighting games. Let’s say youre a good player and you play 2k and jump on with an 85 on an archetype you’ve never used before. It’ll take you a couple hours tops to get fairly good even tho you’ve never used that archetype before. You know why? It’s EASY. If you’ve seen someone do something you can easily replicate it with minimal practice.


Go try to do that in Street Fighter. Let’s say you run Ken for years and are great with Ken. You have 2000 fights in and all 2000 are with Ken. Now try to pick Vega. You’ll get destroyed. You know why? Because each player has unique combos and timing and play styles. Just because your an elite player doesn’t mean you should be able to hop on and master another character in a day.



2k has catered this game to casuals more than Iv EVER seen a game cater to casuals. You shouldn’t make your game catered to only hardcore players but you also don’t cater to the casuals who won’t even be playing the game 7 months after release. That to me is idiotic


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[ILLSmak]

Re: How 2K is like Street Fighter V

Gm is casual, but to say you should have to master a character in a bball game is a casual concept. We all play d, we all play o. There are crosses that work better, better releases etc but unless you are trash, you should have a lot of the game mastered by now. There are different facets but they require different minds states more than skill set. My game doesn't translate to perimeter on o because I always play like a big, and I don't wanna run pg anymore but beyond that, it's all the same. It's more like a boxing game saying you should not be as good with Mike Tyson as you are with Floyd. But why, if you know the game you can make subtle adjustments.



That's not why the skill gap is lacking or why it's casual. It's casual cuz dudes aren't playing bball, just exploiting repetitive moves at high levels.



-Smak

[The 24th Letter]

Re: How 2K is like Street Fighter V

Its just complete apples and oranges.

People aren't saying "How can a little girl like Sakura lift up a guy like Zangief"...because realistic fighting simulation isnt what the game is attempting to be. When you have a game that is attempting to be competitive while replicating a sport at the same time, it adds an entire different list of checks and balances to account for. Even now, you guys are talking about "OP builds" and what not...theres just no comparable aspect to that in Street Fighter or any other fighting game.

Side note: Vega and Ken just so happened to be my first two mains before Balrog dropped, lol

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[nyccc]

Re: How 2K is like Street Fighter V

Vid is very relevant to the downside of the today's gaming culture. 2k is a business, and will continue to please the larger/more profitable audience of casuals. Because of this, it is questionable to me that a game for casuals, is being turned into an eSport.

The problem with 2k is it's lack of variety and its immature audience out number the mature. The casuals outnumber the diehards.

It doesnt make sense to me, as a former competitive H2H player old gen to now more than decent Park/Proam Record(above 70%/Win since 2k15) how 2k has followed the same flawed system the last few years which is this cycle.

1. Game is released. There is an existing learning curve which leads to casuals crying, upset, impatient to learn the game.

2. THEN after outcry from casuals 2k gives and caters to them.

3. THEN the diehard/above average players complain about the change as they have wasted money on MyPlayers.

4. Steps 2 & 3 get repeated back and forth during December-March.

5. Then when the competitive, above average players stop playing, they patch the game for the casuals. (i.e making shooter easier)

This is a bad system because the 2k18 is easy now and casuals get big heads/confidence and attempt the same in 2k19 only to find out how far their skill gap is. Then the cycle repeats. New builds are made to adjust to the change = more money in 2k pockets.

[Kleinevos]

Re: How 2K is like Street Fighter V

The biggest difference is this:

The characters in SF5 are vastly different from eachother, but they’re fixed. That means that the developpers can account for everything and balance things out.

You step on with a character and wether or not you can use it to its full potential is totally up to you.


In 2k it’s different.
Trusting to good fortune (cuz at release they simply dont give all the info) you build a character on release.
Now, if you want to compete right away, you better pump money into it.
Then you better start grinding like a asocial Hermite to grind Some badges.
So it takes you hours and hours to be at a level where your character is well rounded enough to have a fightingchance with silver badges.

After a few weeks, the game has to balance out the die(try)hards with insane stacking badges, regulars with either good badges and low overals or Vice versa, and casuals

And y’all are wondering why they cant balance things out?



Disconnect myplayer from online play, have people play park/pro am where they can choose from 10-15 premade builds for each position with maxed out silver badges.
Have a screen where people can pick the lineup so lineups are atleast somewhat balanced.

You will quickly see a skill gap developing.


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[Housh123]

Re: How 2K is like Street Fighter V

The biggest difference is this:

The characters in SF5 are vastly different from eachother, but they’re fixed. That means that the developpers can account for everything and balance things out.

You step on with a character and wether or not you can use it to its full potential is totally up to you.


In 2k it’s different.
Trusting to good fortune (cuz at release they simply dont give all the info) you build a character on release.
Now, if you want to compete right away, you better pump money into it.
Then you better start grinding like a asocial Hermite to grind Some badges.
So it takes you hours and hours to be at a level where your character is well rounded enough to have a fightingchance with silver badges.

After a few weeks, the game has to balance out the die(try)hards with insane stacking badges, regulars with either good badges and low overals or Vice versa, and casuals

And y’all are wondering why they cant balance things out?



Disconnect myplayer from online play, have people play park/pro am where they can choose from 10-15 premade builds for each position with maxed out silver badges.
Have a screen where people can pick the lineup so lineups are atleast somewhat balanced.

You will quickly see a skill gap developing.


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Only problem with this is no one would play 2k if there were only 15 builds and Live was around

It’s not practical to turn my career into the 2k league

Then it’s not practical to have a 2k league mode because what would the rewards be? Would they transfer over into your myplayer? We all know they wouldn’t. 2k would make you pay VC to get your rewards in the 2kleague mode and nothing would cross over to my career so it’d be a waste of time


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[Kleinevos]

Re: How 2K is like Street Fighter V

Only problem with this is no one would play 2k if there were only 15 builds and Live was around

It’s not practical to turn my career into the 2k league

Then it’s not practical to have a 2k league mode because what would the rewards be? Would they transfer over into your myplayer? We all know they wouldn’t. 2k would make you pay VC to get your rewards in the 2kleague mode and nothing would cross over to my career so it’d be a waste of time


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Mycareer becomes a pure offline game mode. You can still create any build you like and grind your nuts out.

You just wouldnt be able to take him to pro-am/park and compete.
These game modes get a matchmaking queue and a picking phase where players compose lineups.
15-20 pre-made builds PER POSITION, with max silver badges.
You’d get vc for games that can be used in any game mode, a full blown ranking system that gets cosmetic perks (a shiny rank badge like current overall badges, nicer parks to play in, bigger crowds...) and the only progress to make is also cosmetic: clothes, shoes, accessoiries etc Skins, if you please.

Buy the game and compete online, out of the box. Plug and play.

Its the only way they will ever be remotely succesful as an esports.
You’ll never create a succesful competitive scene if players have to pump in money and spend weeks of grinding just to start competing. Facts.

And you cant properly balance online games either the current way.


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[de_jesus]

How 2K is like Street Fighter V

Its just complete apples and oranges.

People aren't saying "How can a little girl like Sakura lift up a guy like Zangief"...because realistic fighting simulation isnt what the game is attempting to be. When you have a game that is attempting to be competitive while replicating a sport at the same time, it adds an entire different list of checks and balances to account for. Even now, you guys are talking about "OP builds" and what not...theres just no comparable aspect to that in Street Fighter or any other fighting game.

Side note: Vega and Ken just so happened to be my first two mains before Balrog dropped, lol

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Ken was always my main, and I thought SF4 did a great job with his skill set. I don’t think making a game more accessible is necessarily to its detriment. For example, MvC is a ****ing hard game because coordinating combos for super teams pretty much allowed you to dominate in nearly a cheesy way (Magneto, Storm, Psylock/Cable) were a killer ****ing squad. It was like choosing the Warriors. Whereas a game like SF4 made it “easier” to get in but, in my opinion, much harder to master because it was a lot more balanced.


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[Kleinevos]

How 2K is like Street Fighter V

. Whereas a game like SF4 made it “easier” to get in but, in my opinion, much harder to master because it was a lot more balanced.

This is exactly my point above.
You should be able to buy the game and compete. No grind for badges, no pay2win.
The only differentiator will be actual skill

Limiting park and pro-am to particular premade builds would make the online game easier to balance.

And without it they’ll never make it as an esports and the 2k league will die in less than 3 seasons



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