The amount of sliding and unnatural movement in 2K19 is heartbreaking...

[GisherJohn24]

Re: The amount of sliding and unnatural movement in 2K19 is heartbreaking...

Time for an entire new gameplay engine

No no no. The game is brilliant off line Imo. The sliding is there but let's focus on the overall picture. From what I'm reading the consensus is that this is the best 2K game since NBA 2K 11. I'm pretty much agreeing

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[rockchisler]

Re: The amount of sliding and unnatural movement in 2K19 is heartbreaking...

I want to love this game, and there are aspects and additions to this year's version that are absolutely amazing and greatly enhance the sim experience.



But...I can't ignore that this is the worst 2K from a sliding and overall lack of proper foot planting and unrealistic movements standpoint that I've played in many years.





I've seen several instances of...





* players slightly gliding into pass catch animations



* players gliding into double team animations



* players gliding into defensive stance animations



* players with the ball warping into body up

animations



* players coming to a full stop, then gliding two more steps for layups or dunks.



* Weird crouch animations bringing the ball up the court.



*Players sliding into lob dunk attempts.







...this is all from an offline, player vs. CPU experience. There is WAY too much wonkiness right now in terms of player movement on the court.

2k sliding has always been horrible.


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[El_Poopador]

Re: The amount of sliding and unnatural movement in 2K19 is heartbreaking...

No no no. The game is brilliant off line Imo. The sliding is there but let's focus on the overall picture. From what I'm reading the consensus is that this is the best 2K game since NBA 2K 11. I'm pretty much agreeing

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The problem is that they've taken it as far as they can already. If we ever want to get improvement on the sliding, they're going to need to change the underlying tech.

[GisherJohn24]

Re: The amount of sliding and unnatural movement in 2K19 is heartbreaking...

The problem is that they've taken it as far as they can already. If we ever want to get improvement on the sliding, they're going to need to change the underlying tech.

That's true friend.

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[rockchisler]

Re: The amount of sliding and unnatural movement in 2K19 is heartbreaking...

The problem is that they've taken it as far as they can already. If we ever want to get improvement on the sliding, they're going to need to change the underlying tech.

Agreed. The game looks great but I always have a feeling that this game was nothing more than a Ported 360 game


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[basehead617]

Re: The amount of sliding and unnatural movement in 2K19 is heartbreaking...

Time for an entire new gameplay engine

The problem is that they've taken it as far as they can already. If we ever want to get improvement on the sliding, they're going to need to change the underlying tech.

So tired of these kinds of comments. There is no ‘engine’ to be switched out like the analogy implies.

All the game is on the court is a giant list of animations and logic to decide which ones to play (and how they scale and deform the model etc). You can improve that logic and mocap new animations or replace old ones. But that’s all it is ever going to be and a new console isn’t going to change that. Updating the animations or the logic is not making a ‘new engine’. A new console means higher resolution graphics due to more memory and faster gpu, more key frames of animation, more memory for animations. None of that really has anything to do with the gameplay issues people have.

Starting from scratch on those animations and logic is a clearly ridiculous notion that provides no benefit at all, and puts the franchise years behind where it is right now, throwing out all the work they’ve done.

People have an inane idea that there is some sort of magic core you could replace and completely change things for the better when it is not the case.

Talk to a game developer.

[Barncore]

Re: The amount of sliding and unnatural movement in 2K19 is heartbreaking...

So tired of these kinds of comments. There is no ‘engine’ to be switched out like the analogy implies.

All the game is on the court is a giant list of animations and logic to decide which ones to play (and how they scale and deform the model etc). You can improve that logic and mocap new animations or replace old ones. But that’s all it is ever going to be and a new console isn’t going to change that. Updating the animations or the logic is not making a ‘new engine’. A new console means higher resolution graphics due to more memory and faster gpu, more key frames of animation, more memory for animations. None of that really has anything to do with the gameplay issues people have.

Starting from scratch on those animations and logic is a clearly ridiculous notion that provides no benefit at all, and puts the franchise years behind where it is right now, throwing out all the work they’ve done.

People have an inane idea that there is some sort of magic core you could replace and completely change things for the better when it is not the case.

Talk to a game developer.

My understanding is this. Code comes in layers. You can't expect the surface level algorithms/animations/tweaks to work together when the foundational code underneath everything is locked in concrete. And on the flip side, you can't change the underlying foundational code without affecting the surface level algorithms as well. The idea people are saying is that the underlying physics need to be restructured. You can't do that without being destructive to what's sitting on top of those foundations unfortunately.

[basehead617]

Re: The amount of sliding and unnatural movement in 2K19 is heartbreaking...

My understanding is this. Code comes in layers. You can't expect the surface level algorithms/animations/tweaks to work together when the foundational code underneath everything is locked in concrete. And on the flip side, you can't change the underlying foundational code without affecting the surface level algorithms as well. The idea people are saying is that the underlying physics need to be restructured. You can't do that without being destructive to what's sitting on top of those foundations unfortunately.

There’s nothing set in stone. They can change all of it. There’s nothing inherently good about doing so, and even if they did, that’s not putting in a new ‘engine’ - it’s updating code and data which is what the game does anyway every year.

What people mean is they think some things cannot be fixed without some massive overhaul. so 2k must be avoiding making some sort of major change that they should be making. There is no reason to think that other than consistent statements made by people who don’t develop games.

And yes there is both high level and low level code. The lowest level, 2K doesn’t have any control over, that’s done by Microsoft/Sony/etc. Then there is a layer 2k is in control of that does 3d math and such. This can be optimized or improved but again is mostly objectively right or wrong and has nothing to do with the problems people have with gameplay. Then there is logic about what to do and when. This they constantly change, improv, balance, break, etc. Then there is data like animations. Some are old. Some are new.

Nowhere in there is something that can just be remade from scratch to be better and address the issues. They can improve the game incrementally year to year and that is what they try to do and sometimes fail at.

[bigmac34]

Re: The amount of sliding and unnatural movement in 2K19 is heartbreaking...

I like it this year. It feels more realistic compared to last year. Getting a block off the glass is more rewarding or getting a nice dunk on somebody. Last year felt like you got stuck in animations or people abused the snatch back way to often.




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[Barncore]

Re: The amount of sliding and unnatural movement in 2K19 is heartbreaking...

There’s nothing set in stone. They can change all of it. There’s nothing inherently good about doing so, and even if they did, that’s not putting in a new ‘engine’ - it’s updating code and data which is what the game does anyway every year.

What people mean is they think some things cannot be fixed without some massive overhaul. so 2k must be avoiding making some sort of major change that they should be making. There is no reason to think that other than consistent statements made by people who don’t develop games.

And yes there is both high level and low level code. The lowest level, 2K doesn’t have any control over, that’s done by Microsoft/Sony/etc. Then there is a layer 2k is in control of that does 3d math and such. This can be optimized or improved but again is mostly objectively right or wrong and has nothing to do with the problems people have with gameplay. Then there is logic about what to do and when. This they constantly change, improv, balance, break, etc. Then there is data like animations. Some are old. Some are new.

Nowhere in there is something that can just be remade from scratch to be better and address the issues. They can improve the game incrementally year to year and that is what they try to do and sometimes fail at.

I'm talking about having code that branches from other code, and code that is only relevant within the context of its' parent code.

You can't change your house from brick walls to stone walls if you've already built it with bricks.

[ASAP Floppy]

Re: The amount of sliding and unnatural movement in 2K19 is heartbreaking...

The problem is that they've taken it as far as they can already. If we ever want to get improvement on the sliding, they're going to need to change the underlying tech.

I agree, I like EA sports real player motion, and the physics and movement in something like PES is next level compared to 2k while handling 2x as many players.

[El_Poopador]

Re: The amount of sliding and unnatural movement in 2K19 is heartbreaking...

So tired of these kinds of comments. There is no ‘engine’ to be switched out like the analogy implies.

All the game is on the court is a giant list of animations and logic to decide which ones to play (and how they scale and deform the model etc). You can improve that logic and mocap new animations or replace old ones. But that’s all it is ever going to be and a new console isn’t going to change that. Updating the animations or the logic is not making a ‘new engine’. A new console means higher resolution graphics due to more memory and faster gpu, more key frames of animation, more memory for animations. None of that really has anything to do with the gameplay issues people have.

Starting from scratch on those animations and logic is a clearly ridiculous notion that provides no benefit at all, and puts the franchise years behind where it is right now, throwing out all the work they’ve done.

People have an inane idea that there is some sort of magic core you could replace and completely change things for the better when it is not the case.

Talk to a game developer.

There’s nothing set in stone. They can change all of it. There’s nothing inherently good about doing so, and even if they did, that’s not putting in a new ‘engine’ - it’s updating code and data which is what the game does anyway every year.

What people mean is they think some things cannot be fixed without some massive overhaul. so 2k must be avoiding making some sort of major change that they should be making. There is no reason to think that other than consistent statements made by people who don’t develop games.

And yes there is both high level and low level code. The lowest level, 2K doesn’t have any control over, that’s done by Microsoft/Sony/etc. Then there is a layer 2k is in control of that does 3d math and such. This can be optimized or improved but again is mostly objectively right or wrong and has nothing to do with the problems people have with gameplay. Then there is logic about what to do and when. This they constantly change, improv, balance, break, etc. Then there is data like animations. Some are old. Some are new.

Nowhere in there is something that can just be remade from scratch to be better and address the issues. They can improve the game incrementally year to year and that is what they try to do and sometimes fail at.

I never said they just need to change the engine. But they've been working with the same base for a decade now, and that was designed with the limitations of the previous generation's hardware in mind.

The bottom line is that their current codebase and engine together limits what they are able to do when it comes to physics and momentum. At some point, they are going to need to start over if they ever want to see major gains in that area. They're called legacy issues for a reason.

Live started over a few years ago, and they're now ahead of 2K in player interaction, footplanting, and movement in relation to physics and momentum. Obviously there wasn't as much risk for EA because they already were so far behind, but the return on the investment is worth noting.

2K's on-court product is suffering from old technology and an old codebase. And as the graphics improve, these things become even more noticeable.