#SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: #SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

Also, should have stopped reading at “basketball is a non-contact sport.”
That is ridiculous and just wrong. I played hs and college ball. I also officiate hs and college ball and one of the main tenets of the game is that it is a contact sport. We literally train newer officials of this fact, as well as reminding coaches usually when the contact is marginal and they are looking for a call. Additionally, NBA basketball is widely known by those of us who actually study the game and have to apply these rules as officials that NBA basketball is extremely physical. At least half of the screens set in the NBA would be team control fouls at the lower levels. Point being that the NBA is an especially bad league to make this notion.


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There could have been a recent change in definitions. In my mind, basketball is a non-contact sport when compared to football, wrestling, boxing, martial arts, etc.

I see where you're coming from, but basketball wasn't a sport where I had to do something to the player. My objective was always the ball. Not body tackle the player. I don't know how to describe it personally, but calling it a "limited-contact" sport makes more sense to me than calling it a contact sport.

[lossanthon]

Re: #SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

There could have been a recent change in definitions. In my mind, basketball is a non-contact sport when compared to football, wrestling, boxing, martial arts, etc.



I see where you're coming from, but basketball wasn't a sport where I had to do something to the player. My objective was always the ball. Not body tackle the player. I don't know how to describe it personally, but calling it a "limited-contact" sport makes more sense to me than calling it a contact sport.

That’s reasonable. There has been an emphasis on freedom of movement in the last five years or so across all levels. When I played there was the hand checking which was horrible and really made it like football at times. I’m glad that’s gone. Limited contact is pretty good. We use the phrases marginal, egregious and intentional when referencing player contact to coaches for the most part.


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[UnbelievablyRAW]

Re: #SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

Kushmir does a good job showing the legacy problems with 2k. If I get the time today I'll make a post with videos showing why passing is not represented properly in this game and how that also adds to unrealistic gameplay. In short though (if I don't get the time), its because passing ratings don't actually matter outside of long passes and alley oops.

There is no difference in pass accuracy and trajectory between doing a cross court pass to hit a guy in the corner with Ben Simmons vs OG Anunoby. There is no difference in being able to pass out of a PnR blitz with Isaiah Thomas vs Lebron. 2k takes passing for granted and its what allows people to play sfs and other non-playmaking players in the point guard position without missing a step. Ideally, passing under pressure should have the same consequences shooting under pressure has. The more people are on you or the tighter the defence is, the less accurate your passes should be the further you are trying to move the ball (unless you're using someone who is actually a playmaker to make the pass)

[Kushmir]

Re: #SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

Passing ratings don't actually matter outside of long passes and alley oops.

There is no difference in pass accuracy and trajectory between doing a cross court pass to hit a guy in the corner with Ben Simmons vs OG Anunoby. There is no difference in being able to pass out of a PnR blitz with Isaiah Thomas vs Lebron. 2k takes passing for granted and its what allows people to play sfs and other non-playmaking players in the point guard position without missing a step. Ideally, passing under pressure should have the same consequences shooting under pressure has. The more people are on you or the tighter the defence is, the less accurate your passes should be the further you are trying to move the ball (unless you're using someone who is actually a playmaker to make the pass)

Another reason this community ROCKS. If one of us doesn't identify an issue that's the foundation for bad gameplay (because I was clueless here) rest assured someone else will.

GOOD FIND.

[Kushmir]

Re: #SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

After a few months off the game I decided this would be my last week on 2K19:

STILL A THING:

1. Users mistiming blocks and coming down on offensive players and it resulting in turnovers [emoji849] rather than opportunities for continuation.

2. Good stuff? Balanced Contests. At 1:27 in the 4th Siakam tries to close out on Butler but is caught flat-footed as he tries to contest a jump-shot while Butler continues to the basket. This is an example of great Risk/Reward Balance and actually fooling the other USER.

3. Offense still recovering virtually every loose ball. [emoji849]

4. Defense still allowing passes into the paint that should be deflections out of bounds at the very least.

5. Still no Loose Ball Fouls, Blocking Fouls or Charges.

6. Users abusing the double Team because it so heavily favors the offense. It burned this guy at the end of this game but it absolutely needs foul outcomes.

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[Kushmir]

Re: #SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

Months ago I mentioned how Centers being out of position at the core level was problematic. My previous examples were with Horford. Lopez is another guy you can't just allow open shots in trail position. Our centers should shadow him as he comes upcourt and meet him near the 3pt line. This kind of poor positioning breaks the defense:

Embiid can't be below the FT line on a shooter.

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Now this kind of drive/kick? FINE. Giannis makes the defense collapse here and creates an open shot.

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[Kushmir]

Re: #SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

The Bad: This instance is a microcosm of the Paint Passing issues that still plague the game. This guy passes the ball directly at the defender (twice) point blank at the basket because gameplay still allows it. What should be easy deflections out of bounds end up being completed passes right under the rim.

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The Good? Great Shot contest here using Kawhi. I'll go to my grave thinking pointing Right Stick at the offensive player should make our defenders contest shots (outside shots or drives to the basket) pointing up is so counter-intuitive. Lets make defense more user-friendly.

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The Ugly? Gameplay HAS to stop rewarding failure. Pump fakes simply can't be part of every interaction for offensive players and continue to be all reward, ZERO RISK (see Kawhi at the 4 min mark) When they're ineffective we need to see the ball poked away or defenders take away the offensive players dribble with the Hands Up Contain we see below:

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[2_headedmonster]

Re: #SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

The game punishes excessive pumpfakes with a travel call. I dont want them further incentivizing pressing square.

[Kushmir]

Re: #SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

The game punishes excessive pumpfakes with a travel call. I dont want them further incentivizing pressing square.

Those travel calls are still too rare...square doesn't factor here.

The HUC would trigger if the offensive player is static or the defender points the R-Stick at the offensive player and crowding him instead of falling for the pump fake. Here's an example below in the instances with Rozier and Hayward:

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[2_headedmonster]

Re: #SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

Those travel calls are still too rare...square doesn't factor here.

The HUC would trigger if the offensive player is static or the defender points the R Stick at the offensive player crowding him instead of falling for the pump fake like you see below in the instances with Rozier and Hayward:

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Maybe I don't know what I'm looking for common but I didn't see anybody fall for a pump fake in that clip

[Kushmir]

Re: #SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

Maybe I don't know what I'm looking for common but I didn't see anybody fall for a pump fake in that clip

Exactly, both McConnell and Muscala stay on the ground...neither one bites. That's my point, right now the pump fake is an all-reward, zero-risk proposition and it shouldn't be. The pump fake is misdirection, you're trying to make the defender believe you're shooting. If the defender isn't fooled the offensive player should run the risk of having the ball stripped or have a high percentage chance of being crowded/losing their dribble via the Hands Up Contest.

[Kushmir]

Re: #SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

This is the type of gameplay we're trying to do away with.

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Neither Ben or Embiid fall for the pump-fake...but the offensive player shouln't just be able to continue faking or sit and sip lemonade while he waits to pass the ball. Risk/Reward.

Its the kind of thing Users will try when we can draw fouls on guys that leave their feet (something we all want) But it has to be balanced so there HAS to be a COUNTER. Stripping the ball in situations like this should be high percentage. Pointing the R-Stick at a pump faking or static player should trigger the HUC--since its great defensive position it should dramatically lower the FG% and also would draw charges if the player is too aggressive trying to finish THROUGH the defender.

Plays like this should be super rare...offensive fouls should be higher percentage than made baskets.

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Gameplay should reward the defense for being in good position and NOT falling for pump-fakes...like so:

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[2_headedmonster]

Re: #SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

I agree that good defensive position should be rewarded and for the most part it is. Actually in 2k19 bad defense is rewarded. I rarely, if ever get fouls without an aggressive input unless its a blocking foul.

Personally I just think in its current state the pump fake is too weak. You can pump fake a person into the air, out of position, and they could still be rewarded with the block.

You can pump fake a person and to a hard close out and won't be rewarded with the ability to easily blow by them.

You can also pump fake a person to the air on the perimeter, only to lose the ball in a collision with an air born defender.

[Kushmir]

#SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

I rarely, if ever get fouls without an aggressive input unless its a blocking foul.

Blocking Fouls are all but extinct in H2H...I only see them used on force-outs. When have you experienced them?

Personally I just think in its current state the pump fake is too weak. You can pump fake a person into the air, out of position, and they could still be rewarded with the block.



You can pump fake a person and to a hard close out and won't be rewarded with the ability to easily blow by them.



You can also pump fake a person to the air on the perimeter, only to lose the ball in a collision with an air born defender.

[emoji1547][emoji1547][emoji1547] All True. EVERY WORD. This is what we're trying to get fixed...so that missing a block results in a foul or your momentum taking you out of the play. Thing is, when we can finally draw fouls that mechanic has to be BALANCED or users will be out here spamming pump-fake to bait players like the MIL guy above. If you're savvy enough defender and don't fall for that? There has to be a REWARD.

[2_headedmonster]

Re: #SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

Blocking Fouls are all but extinct in H2H...I only see them used on force-outs. When have you experienced them?







[emoji1547][emoji1547][emoji1547] All True. EVERY WORD. This is what we're trying to get fixed...so that missing a block results in a foul or your momentum taking you out of the play. Thing is, when we can finally draw fouls that mechanic has to be BALANCED or users will be out here spamming pump-fake to bait players like the MIL guy above. If you're savvy enough defender and don't fall for that? There has to be a REWARD.

I gotcha. But i feel like basketball problems have basketball solutions. In basketball stripping a pumpfake is rare, and when it does happen, it's mostly in the paint. Generally the risk of a live ball pump fake is a dead dribble with options limited to a tough shot or a predictable pass.

If you simply don't jump, you have effectively countered pump fake abuse