#SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

[Kushmir]

Re: #SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

Part 2 - NOPE, cutting BEHIND the defense to award them with steals they haven't earned is apparently en vogue....

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This isn't how we make defense relevant or better. This is the literal definition of how to make the game worse.

It's fine if the help defender drops middle to prevent an easy cut to the rim...but the offensive player has to be smarter and should counter by cutting in front of him if thats the case. That allows a better interaction anyway--one where the defense is between the cutter and the basket.

[Kushmir]

Re: #SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

A good look at current gameplay. This one has it all:

1. Steal/Block Spam
2. Constant Neutral Outcomes
3. Long Pass Spam
4. Zones (and offensive players clueless re: spacing)
5. Double Teaming that breaks play-calls
6. Ridiculous passing lane steals

What should be an easy win turns into a close game because gameplay refuses to call the most basic of fouls AND wont punish bad block/steal attempts or cheese in general. Good players shouldn't have to subject themselves to this kind of "basketball". [emoji849]

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[Kushmir]

Re: #SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

My boy sent me these: Another example of why the DT needs a foul outcome 50% of the time. Its been an exploit too long. Here its used to max effect at the end of a quarter/game...notice how Dirk is trapped in the animation but Spellman is free to jump? (easy foul call btw--but thats another issue) CAN'T HAPPEN.

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Steal Spam ruined 2K19: Mejri is a 7'2" center with a steal rating of 43. [emoji58]

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Watch DeAndre on this PNR. Thats really, really bad gameplay. Our AI players have to play to their ability.....yikes thats bad.

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[Kushmir]

Re: #SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

The more you study Steal Spam its obvious you'll turn the ball over alot against spammers regardless of their skill level/timing. They'll miss steals and still be in perfect defensive position, the ball will warp towards swiping defenders so more steals can occur and the most egregious reaches will be Neutral Outcomes at best--at worst you'll get ripped. It doesn't matter who they use, or what steal rating they have. As long as they keep trying....they'll get the ball...ALOT.

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[Kushmir]

Re: #SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

This guy's frustrated....we've all been there. He's getting hammered and can't do anything--he's tried everything. He shoots a three. BRICK. So he hits steal out of frustration--I get it. But ask yourself: Does his frustration plus the fact that he's hitting square mean I dont get to have the ball anymore?

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This guy's trying to anticipate my pass and then pick it off. I mean that's how steals are SUPPOSED to work. The problem? He keeps guessing wrong. There's absolutely no downside to it either...he misses but doesn't lunge out of position--he stays right there in perfect position ready to steal the ball if a pass is thrown.

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How Rozier stole the pass as soon as it left my hand is beyond me. Maybe he's psychic. That should literally be the 2nd-lowest percentage play in the game after paint passes. [emoji24]

[DC]

Re: #SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

Kushmir,

Keep fighting the good fight man.

Nobody provides more evidence to support claims as you do.

Always in your corner

[Kushmir]

Re: #SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

Kushmir, Keep fighting the good fight man.

Thanks DC, Hope you're doing ok homey.

OAN: Instead of broken #stealspam mechanics that cheesers will abuse...maybe fix the core issues with defensive positioning? This nasty habit centers have of not shadowing their assignment? Its ripe for abuse. There's zero reason they should be on the other side of the court with their man coming upcourt. They should be in the middle of the court ready to help. They have to move like they're the last line of defense--because NEWS FLASH, they are.

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Horford's mid range rating is 95. Joel on the other side of the court daydreaming can't be a thing. A savvy user will shoot this at will and in crunch-time draw Chandler and kick to Morris. BANG.

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In this case Bolden's cover is CJ Miles--an elite 3pt shooter (he's #0) Cheesers will wreak havoc on gameplay with AI mistakes like this:

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Its a wonder people actually question off-ball defense like we're not constantly trying to mitigate head-scratching decisions by the AI.

[Kushmir]

Re: #SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

Earlier game I broadcasted on Twitch, consider:

This guy was pretty good and had an 80% win pct. The real question is why are we still playing defense to mitigate the silly stuff by the AI?

That he even throws this pass tells you players know defenders aren't competent. No one throws a pass at a defender expecting him not to react unless you're playing 2K. Less mechanics allowing guys to double down then recover to the 3pt line and more BASIC competency by our defenders. This should be an easy deflection out of bounds--the issue with the offense recovering 80% of loose balls has to be addressed.

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Why I play off-ball. Because if I dont its the SG open like this. Everybody's accounted for and Amir crashes down? For what? I shouldn't have to put tight D on guys for my defenders not to leave them:

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We can't be everywhere so our defenders simply can't do this stuff. Horford has a 95 mid-range/81-3pt and JoJo's daydreaming on the other side of the court? C'MON. Stop putting OP steal mechanics in the game and address the core positioning stuff PLEASE and THANK YOU.

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The switches in this game are horrible. Guys switch for no reason and put the defense in ridiculous positions. Why would Chandler leave his guy in a situation like this?

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This is the play that broke this guy [emoji23] and even though I don't quit it would have pissed me off too. This is what OP defensive mechanics gets you. JoJo can really move his feet but doesn't stand a chance vs Kyrie. And why do they switch to begin with? Mismatches like his are why blocking fouls should be back in the game...and why we need a NO SWITCHING option next year.

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[Kushmir]

Re: #SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

Reminder that multiple points of gameplay need to be moved so the issues with long passing/transition defense is resolved. Its been 3 years...that's too long--its time for a Heavy Hand here.

1. Defenders need to get back facing the ball like they do in reality and react to it like did Schroder did here. This should be the norm. No offensive player passes the ball at a defender expecting him not to react--this is videogame-only behavior.

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2. Defenders have to get back in the same lanes as their "covers". So many issues arise because they get back nowhere in the vicinity of the person they're defending--breaking the defense when the ball is advanced. See Simmons, he's the 1st back and defending Morris here but is completely on the other side of the court. The result is a wide open shot:

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The speed of long passes needs to slow over distance. This will help resolve the issue but make sure the right passes are unaffected.

3. Long Passes need a 50% turnover outcome. AGAIN: A Heavy Hand.

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This is just one example of many. Here Butler and Chandler are facing the ball but never react. They concede the catch--this kind of thing can't happen in 2K20. At worst these have to be deflections out of bounds. Neither can the blind steal spam that occurs after the block:

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Here's a still image of the pass mid-air for perspective on how bad the transition defense is:

[Kushmir]

Re: #SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

No amount of improvements made to the defense in the future will matter as long as offenses can do THIS:

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Defenders should get back in transition facing the ball like in the image below:

[WarMMA]

Re: #SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

^ Definitely agree with the above post. It honestly still baffles me how this game even made it to the competitive scene.

[Kushmir]

Re: #SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

After Transition, PNR Defense and Steal Spam (and Block Timing) Direct Passing into the Paint is probably the biggest gameplay legacy issue still remaining. There has to be a shift here....its been an issue for too long.

The devs tried to address it by adding THIS "post push" animation--and I applaud their effort--but it simply isn't enough.

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What we really need is to stop the passes (and not by beefing up steals--those are broken enough [emoji849]) because the ease of passing the ball to a spot point-blank at the basket can't continue. Deflections out of bounds are the solution here--similar to how contact shots were used to lower FG% instead of using blocks. These passes should be the lowest percentage play in the game.

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Deflections out of bounds fix this issue in the most "basketball" method. I went more into depth and blogged about it here: http://spgmg.blogspot.com/2019/01/ad...sing.html#more

[Barncore]

Re: #SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

I had an idea but i don't see a 2k20 wish list so i came back to this thread.

I want to see more emphasis on players who have a good ability to "mesh" with other players vs players who are more individual focused. I.e. maybe a new attribute or badge called "harmony" or something. Example: Malcolm Brogdon has an IQ and perspective of the game that allows him to see the game from a 5vs5 scope. He glues in with any team because of this, and it positively affects winning. Whereas say someone like Dennis Smith is an amazing individual talent but he doesn't gel with players easily because his basketball team harmony ability is not high, and it affects team results.

If everybody on the team has a high harmony rating then their CHEMISTRY is amazing, ball movement is well oiled and polished, crisp. Please introduce this element into the game. It has always been the secret sauce of a good NBA team.

If a new attribute is too much to ask then maybe a badge that improves his teammate's Shot IQ and Hands or something. And maybe passing IQ too.

[lossanthon]

Re: #SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

I absolutely have played basketball and quite a bit of it.
Have you?
If you know anything about basketball you would know that it’s a non-contact sport. Meaning, you are not allowed to make contact with the opposing team or a foul will be called.
In recent years they have changed the label from non-contact to limited contact, meaning some contact, such as bodying up someone in the post or crowding a ball handler, is allowed, but contact still draws fouls. Limited contact is allowed but excessive contact is a foul.
So stop reading all you like, but just because you choose to not read doesn’t change the facts or the rules.


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Also, should have stopped reading at “basketball is a non-contact sport.”
That is ridiculous and just wrong. I played hs and college ball. I also officiate hs and college ball and one of the main tenets of the game is that it is a contact sport. We literally train newer officials of this fact, as well as reminding coaches usually when the contact is marginal and they are looking for a call. Additionally, NBA basketball is widely known by those of us who actually study the game and have to apply these rules as officials that NBA basketball is extremely physical. At least half of the screens set in the NBA would be team control fouls at the lower levels. Point being that the NBA is an especially bad league to make this notion.


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[lossanthon]

#SIMNATION Developer Feedback Project

1. Auto shoe color randomization before each game and auto shoe type randomization for those who are not under contract for a specific shoe company. This could be set to options such as changes always, often, sometimes, rarely or never, much like the accessories.

2. Please stop the throwing away of outlet passes to a releasing teammate. If a defender contests on a perimeter shot, it misses and the defense rebounds we should not be punished with a throw pass out of bounds 90% of the time. This has shown to be a constant for this gen of the game where you reward bad shot selection with not having to pay the price of what this type of offense leads to.

3. Fix the short length of which players wear these days or give the option of the length desired.

4. Fix the leg to torso ratio. It’s an eyesore which also makes the accessories not look as they do on the players in real life.

5. Please sync the jerseys worn to the real life jersey schedule for all modes.

6. Shoe and accessory updates automatically update to myleague/mygm.

7. I know it’s been said ad nauseam, but better, more realistic basketball spacing on fast breaks.

8. Pregame shoot around.

9. I think the game was relatively perfect aside from every defender picking up at half court and the cpu hardly ever missing an open three. The risk of passing the ball into passing lanes and having to actually make sure there wasn’t a defender there was beautiful. Of course, I play offline and with that I’ll close with if you can separate the two worlds (online and offline) somehow that would be greatly appreciated. We’re trying to play basketball and I can’t speak as to what they are shooting for, but it’s definitely not realistic basketball. [emoji1479]


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