Sharpshooters/Stretchs aren't OP AT ALL

[ph33]

Re: Sharpshooters/Stretchs aren't OP AT ALL

It’s funny, I play with sharps and stretches who are good guys who I genuinely like. But when they miss an open 3 they’re like “Come on, 2K!!!” They’re fully in the mindset now that an open 3 should be an automatic make. It’s wild to me that 2K has let this go on this long because now if they nerf shooting, they’ll probably have a riot on their hands.

Pretty much same experience for me

[Korrupted]

Re: Sharpshooters/Stretchs aren't OP AT ALL

So wouldn't it be better if they fixed the delay instead of auto contesting?

I don't think you can fix the delay issue. Everybody Ping and distance from the servers are different. I have 1Gig Up/Down internet with 5ms Ping and I still experience it. I think it'd be better to just add an auto contest option back in the game. I don't recall seeing anybody having a problem with Auto Contest, Intense D, or Manual in previous years. Give the community options again.

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: Sharpshooters/Stretchs aren't OP AT ALL

there's nothing wrong with green releases = 100% makes.

Here's why. in real life, if you truly release the ball at the perfect time and aim your arms properly, and balance your lower half perfectly. guess what? you will make the shot every single time (in a closed GYM with no extra air blowing at the ball).

The reality starts becoming arcade and cartoon like on 2k because they either dont know how or dont want to make the game so realistic that you have to do all of those things with the sticks in order to make a green shot.

think about that for a moment. what if you had to actually balance yourself either before you jumped or in mid air, while also keeping your elbow at the proper position for your guys jumper animation and then release it at the right time. all of those things together would make for a difficult green, just like in real life. so that would mean most people would not be even shooting green release shots. they would be shooting almost greens. which most could go in based on a lot of factors at a certain percentage. but not 100% and not 70% even when open. The closer you are to everything i just mentioned being perfect the higher your shot make percentage goes.

so now if i add proper defensive animations and block timing. you are then forced to lean some on your jumper which will make you less balanced which will make your shot most likely not a green release since it will make it so much harder to balance your body while leaning in that quick of a moment before its time to release the shot so it wont get blocked.

^^thats how you setup that scenario. but 2k says no. they want to control it and tell you that these shots are green and money. to force a lot of 3's going up, higher scorers in less mins played since most are playing on 5 to 6 mins qtrs.

Hell no....there's NO SUCH THING AS A PERFECT RELEASE UNLESS YOUR AN ANDROID OR MACHINE.

[Keith01]

Re: Sharpshooters/Stretchs aren't OP AT ALL

It’s funny, I play with sharps and stretches who are good guys who I genuinely like. But when they miss an open 3 they’re like “Come on, 2K!!!” They’re fully in the mindset now that an open 3 should be an automatic make. It’s wild to me that 2K has let this go on this long because now if they nerf shooting, they’ll probably have a riot on their hands.

Well it is annoying to miss WIDE open 3's while others are hitting contested 3's. But yeah some non-automatic-ness would help.

But what 2K has created is an alternate basketball reality with their own version of basketball logic -- worst thing is azz backwards Deadeye badges. Contested = Good shot. wtf. The thing I can't stand about sharps is that having that build completely shrinks the skill gap. You can be brand new to the game, have sub par shot selection, but you're still gonna score 20 - 30 in JRC or get buckets in Park just from your ratings and badges and others setting you up.

[BenBobOmb]

Re: Sharpshooters/Stretchs aren't OP AT ALL

I‘ve managed to hold the Stretch 4s to 0 points the last two games I‘ve played JRC games but they were bad players and didn‘t rely on the stupid zigzag method to get open.

It‘s not a problem if they don‘t know what they‘re doing and just play a S4 or pure Sharp because it‘s easy but if your opponent is „skilled“ at what he‘s doing even though I hate to admit it I feel like I‘m at their mercy with my Rebounding Athletic Finisher. They are way faster moving from side to side, know how to abuse the freaking lag and that‘s without any picks involved.

What bothers me the most with guarding Stretch 4s is I almost don‘t get any defensive rebounds because I can‘t move an inch away from the threepoint line or it‘s money for them.

I like to punish them in the post though but that only works if your teammates actually pass the ball to a big or don‘t crowd the paint all at once.

[Hardaway1]

Re: Sharpshooters/Stretchs aren't OP AT ALL

In my opinion there are a few major factors that are leading to the overabundance of threes in this game, particular in rec/pro-am/park. It's not just that a bunch of threes are going in IMO it's the type of threes that are going in.

The fact that low effort, fade away, off dribble, contested, etc. threes are going in at a higher rate than a wide open Steph Curry three for the majority of sharp shooters in 2k is ridiculous

Not to pull the OG card, but I've played this game since the first 2k on the dreamcast, so I feel that I can offer some good perspective

2k labs: Running test on and giving away results for which jumpers/jumper combo's go in at the highest percentage/have the best chance of getting a green release is leading to a lot of what we see with threes. This is giving sharps a HUGE advantage. It's not a coincidence that most youtubers all have the same/very similar jumper..

instead of having to think about how they can create space, work to get open and play smart etc. Sharps can just jack up shots knowing that their jumper is a safety net because its been tried and tested and has a better chance of going in than any other shot in the game.. It takes zero skill to pay $10 and get this information..


Lack of defensive badges on guard builds: Whose idea was it to not give any guard builds (other than locks) a bronze pick dodger badge? It's nearly impossible to guard a sharp who is playing with two bigs because of this.


Lack of penalty for spamming screens: Spamming screens needs to be penalized. Whether that means a half second delay when trying to set your fifth screen in five seconds, or more "illegal" screens being called.. something needs to be there to deter people from spending 20 seconds of a possession holding down B/circle

HOF limitless range badge: There is only one person in the entire history of basketball that you have to pick up at half court to deter a 3pt attempt.. That's Steph.. Get this badge out of here..

Sharps off dribble three rating: Why is this so high? Lowering this to an 85 max would eliminate half of the ridiculous threes we see. Having this rating so high is what makes a Klay Thompson build (what a sharp should be minus the D) into a larger Steph Curry build


I think that adjusting the topics mentioned above would greatly improve the three point problem currently in 2k..

[ruxpinke]

Re: Sharpshooters/Stretchs aren't OP AT ALL

Sad to Say, im slowly losing hope. The silence from the Devs is deafening. Really disappointing. You would think a simple look at the stats would tell them the current 3 pointers are OP. There is so much potential in the game this year.

I dont even mind the inside shots being tougher, but having the 3 ball be so OP really makes it stick out like a sore thumb.

Yesterday in the park was just waves of the same Pro teams, one GC to set crazy screens, one pure stretch/sharp and one little guy to ball handle/shoot as well. Even the games we won weren't fun because there was no variety in builds or playstyle. The teams who knew how to abuse screens regularly went 6/8 from three. Yea you can switch, yea you can talk, but even doing that, there were plenty of plays where defense wasn't being rewarded, because of sticky screens or delayed contests because of lag. When every team with a large positive record is doing the exact same thing, the game gets stale fast. I can't blame them either, its working so why would they ever do anything different. If you value wins over anything else, why would you try to play a different style. Just zig zag until someone finally gets caught on a screen. The fatigue or side to side dribble has no effect on your shot, so have at it.

I LOVE basketball. No matter how much i talk, i always buy this game. I deal with it, because I have faith that they will eventually balance it to a point where its at least fun. I'm not having any fun right now. If this game stays in this state all year I will have to think long and hard about purchasing next year, for the first time since i made the switch to 2k for 2k6.

[ruxpinke]

Re: Sharpshooters/Stretchs aren't OP AT ALL

I don't think you can fix the delay issue. Everybody Ping and distance from the servers are different. I have 1Gig Up/Down internet with 5ms Ping and I still experience it. I think it'd be better to just add an auto contest option back in the game. I don't recall seeing anybody having a problem with Auto Contest, Intense D, or Manual in previous years. Give the community options again.

The only people complaining about auto contest maybe coming back are people who are abusing the lag and screens now to shoot over and over again. Skill Gap is the term they are holding on to - if there were actual systems in place, i.e illegal screens, stiffer penalties for zig zagging, harsher penalties for off excessive dribble shooting, and a right stick that was actually responsive for contests, then we can talk about skill gap. Right now we are talking about abuse, and only the people abusing are happy with the current setup.

[Thrustie]

Re: Sharpshooters/Stretchs aren't OP AT ALL

I‘ve managed to hold the Stretch 4s to 0 points the last two games I‘ve played JRC games but they were bad players and didn‘t rely on the stupid zigzag method to get open.

It‘s not a problem if they don‘t know what they‘re doing and just play a S4 or pure Sharp because it‘s easy but if your opponent is „skilled“ at what he‘s doing even though I hate to admit it I feel like I‘m at their mercy with my Rebounding Athletic Finisher. They are way faster moving from side to side, know how to abuse the freaking lag and that‘s without any picks involved.

What bothers me the most with guarding Stretch 4s is I almost don‘t get any defensive rebounds because I can‘t move an inch away from the threepoint line or it‘s money for them.

I like to punish them in the post though but that only works if your teammates actually pass the ball to a big or don‘t crowd the paint all at once.

I actually don’t find stretch 4s hard to guard in the majority of cases. Especially in the half court. I find that most times if I just stick close to them and don’t cheat, I can effectively shut them down. Most times I contest them, they brick. If they actually have guys running interference for them, it definitely becomes a lot more challenging.

The balancing issue, to me, is that I literally can’t help at all on defense unless I know the ball carrier has zero IQ. I can watch a guy running uncontested to the hoop and I’m still better off camping my guy in the corner because if I help, it’s a guaranteed 3 points. Meanwhile my matchup can run around doubling everyone because there’s a much higher probability i’ll miss at the rim.

I played a team last night with 4 shooters (I was at the 4 defending a stretch) and all they did is have the center set screens at the top of the arc and the PG shoot 3s behind the screen. So our Center would step up to try and contest. The opposing Center would roll to the basket and the PG would pass it to him for an uncontested dunk. I tried to help from the corner but the first time I did it, the Center passed it to my Stretch and he hit. So I stopped helping and the cycle continued. My matchup finished 1 for 3 but just by existing, he crippled our defense. That’s the power of sharps in this game.

[Thrustie]

Re: Sharpshooters/Stretchs aren't OP AT ALL

Sad to Say, im slowly losing hope. The silence from the Devs is deafening. Really disappointing. You would think a simple look at the stats would tell them the current 3 pointers are OP. There is so much potential in the game this year.

I dont even mind the inside shots being tougher, but having the 3 ball be so OP really makes it stick out like a sore thumb.

Yesterday in the park was just waves of the same Pro teams, one GC to set crazy screens, one pure stretch/sharp and one little guy to ball handle/shoot as well. Even the games we won weren't fun because there was no variety in builds or playstyle. The teams who knew how to abuse screens regularly went 6/8 from three. Yea you can switch, yea you can talk, but even doing that, there were plenty of plays where defense wasn't being rewarded, because of sticky screens or delayed contests because of lag. When every team with a large positive record is doing the exact same thing, the game gets stale fast. I can't blame them either, its working so why would they ever do anything different. If you value wins over anything else, why would you try to play a different style. Just zig zag until someone finally gets caught on a screen. The fatigue or side to side dribble has no effect on your shot, so have at it.

I LOVE basketball. No matter how much i talk, i always buy this game. I deal with it, because I have faith that they will eventually balance it to a point where its at least fun. I'm not having any fun right now. If this game stays in this state all year I will have to think long and hard about purchasing next year, for the first time since i made the switch to 2k for 2k6.

Yup. The only guys I semi regularly play park with are a pure sharp PG and a stretch 4. I run around and set screens until one of them is open and then it’s buckets. If we play a good defensive team, I’m the safety valve and I roll to the bucket for open dunks because typically the only way they can defend the 3s is if all 3 guys step up. We literally only lose when we play teams built the same way. Then it just comes down to who misses 1 or 2 shots. It’s pretty boring honestly and I rarely play park unless it’s double rep because of it.

[awg811]

Re: Sharpshooters/Stretchs aren't OP AT ALL

I can’t find one thing in this game that works as it should. Literally EVERYTHING in this game is broken.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[splashmountain]

Re: Sharpshooters/Stretchs aren't OP AT ALL

Hell no....there's NO SUCH THING AS A PERFECT RELEASE UNLESS YOUR AN ANDROID OR MACHINE.

actually there is. When you see a real life shot go straight into the basket without it touching the net. That's a perfect shot release. When you see/hear the net snap as the ball goes in without it even touching the rim. It's a perfect release. Shooters have different green release areas in real life, depending on how they shoot the shot they are shooting. I'll give you an example. when i used to play a ton of basketball. I had 3 different shots. I had a shot when or if I was injured and coudnt get off the ground as well as i should for my normal shot that was shot that started on my right side but really low and pushed off of my shoulder almost. I had it down to the point it was a swish a lot of times. the only problem was, it was hard as hell to shoot like that on the move. it was great for a catch and shoot situation if i was injured. and if you did anything wrong that shot would be all over the place. very difficult to rebound/soften up said shot because it had a crazy arc. but it was MONEY when it hit. didnt touch the rim.

^green release

2nd shot when I was healthy but I'm shooting from a far distance (true nba range or deeper for a game winner or end of qtr shot.) Still good lift on the jump but also kind of holding the ball above my head for that extra added strength since I wasnt use to shooting from that far out( i aint no nba player. lol.) but when it hit money. it was all net. GREEN release.

3rd shot. was my normal shot from mid range or college/high school 3. shot was released at my forehead with good lift on it. when it hit that net with that snap and the ball would land and roll back towards me. I knew that was a perfect release. GREEN release.

So yes even one person could have 3 different shots with 3 different green release points. therefore other people would have other green release points in their various shots. If a defender is on you but you need to get it up and over him. and you release it later, if you put the right amt of arm strength/wrist flick. you could still get a green/perfect release. but its hard as hell to pull off since you need to find your balance mid air while also avoiding a shot blocker while still concentrating. thats very hard to do in real life. This can be simulated in the game if they made you have to straighten up your shot trajectory as well as straighten up/balance your body and they make the balancing speed different for different archetypes as well as different for different sizes of guys.

Dont get caught up in the idea of a green release needing to be nerfed. it doesnt. the entire mechanics of shooting need to be re-worked to be more realistic. Ray allen in practice probably hits a lot of perfectly released jumpers. same with JJ reddick. so never say green releases are not possible unless you're a robot. its not true. they are possible. but they are extremely difficult to pull off due to all that stuff that goes into it as i suggested above.

[Thetruth9012]

Re: Sharpshooters/Stretchs aren't OP AT ALL

What you said is soo true.

We still play it only because we all love basketball....

Wysłane z mojego Redmi 5 przy użyciu Tapatalka

[splashmountain]

Re: Sharpshooters/Stretchs aren't OP AT ALL

What you said is soo true.

We still play it only because we all love basketball....

Wysłane z mojego Redmi 5 przy użyciu Tapatalka

I'm getting closer and closer to deleting 2k19 off of my xbox. not even joking this time. I just played last night and watch this guy throw 10 lobs within the first half to one short/small shot creating/slasher. That would be fine if I or someone else were not in the passing lane, pressing the steal button or jumping attempting to tip the pass. We did this for 9 out of 10 lobs. Not one time did I tip the pass even though the ball clearly went thru my hand. There was no respect for my actual stick skills/ defense because this game is not about skill. It's about archetype and badge choices. if i was a defender I would've automatically tipped/stolen some of those lobs without doing much of anything. pathetic.

[ILLSmak]

Re: Sharpshooters/Stretchs aren't OP AT ALL

Hell no....there's NO SUCH THING AS A PERFECT RELEASE UNLESS YOUR AN ANDROID OR MACHINE.

In a perfect circumstance, say fg line empty gym, in perfect rhythm, some of the greatest Shooters ever would still have variance in their release but the amount they'd make, like, 97-99 out of 100 regularly is close enough to perfection to be called perfection imo.



Now, let's talk about real basketball. Haha. So many variables, it's a testament to the skill of these players that they can make 50% of the shots w all that's going on. Fatigue, minor injuries, pressure, bad passes, late passes. Watching your teammate Russell Westbrook chuck the game away then expect you to go be a knock down shooter when it suits him, etc.



The fact that shooting and passing are so simple means there should not be anything close to 100% makes. The fact that some releases are easier to green is an overlooked game breaking "glitch." and think of passing. If I see someone coming around to curl out for a three I can hit them w a pass w any player that leads them perfectly to a squared up j assuming I time it right and they run the route right. That's not realistic, either.


Or like I've thrown dead ball inbounds from 3/4 court to a cutting guard for the dunk, that's a tough pass. People fumble passes. You watch the nfl and it's like how did he drop it, it happens. So many variables. Dude could be the best receiver ever and getting a pass from the greatest qb and still drop it open in the end zone. He might spend the rest of his life replaying the moment in his mind but if you really broke it down in slow mo, you could probably see what happens. Some nuance was off.



I was a proponent of greens cuz it sucks to get good shots and miss them, but I'm still missing and now the shooting builds are making everything... Or non Shooters are making js. Javale mcgee can probably bang 2 or 3 out of 10 3s in an open gym but that doesn't mean in a game he might miss wide by 5 feet. Nothing is perfect in sports, too much chaos.



But you can shoot a perfect j or ft if you have a good amount of time to set up and all, in a gym with no d. Just like some one can do a perfect triple axle. Or so close to perfect the difference doesnt matter. Like there would be no functional difference between 100% greens and 98%.


If dudes could shoot perfect js in competition the 3 point contest would be a joke.



-Smak