For Those That Didn't Know, Mike Wang Got Noticed From Posting on the OS Forums (IGN)

[GisherJohn24]

Re: For Those That Didn't Know, Mike Wang Got Noticed From Posting on the OS Forums (

This is something that I fundamentally do not understand from you guys who rage against VC. Why do you consider that a "solution"? It's a free market. I like Jordans. I think its obscene how some people act and what they pay for a pair when it releases. Im not with that. Im content to wait until the hysteria dies down and i can walk into a store and get me a pair for what I want. But I don't see the simple supply and demand dynamic as anything inherently bad, or anything like that. The people spending 100$ or whatever are speaking loud and clear. Even if they complain afterwards. If they want to be able to enjoy a 60$ product and nothing more, then theyd show that. They are showing that they will spend 100$ on the game or spend the 60$ and buy VC. They buy more each year. They are very clearly making a statement. I totally get not liking it or the trend. The notion that people are "fed up" is a false narrative not backed up numbers.

I don't understand why 1 video game should ever be 100.00 under any market. Not to mention the people spending 100.00 on deluxe versions plus VC spending over 150.00. And you're getting content that is Already hidden on the game. Paying real money to unlock it. It's deception. And 2k isnt the only one guilty. Again, fans have to realize it's deceptive. Instead of thinking spending more money you're going to have more fun.with the game. I hate it. I deal with it but 2k needs to know a lot of people aren't falling for it anymore.

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[Junior Moe]

Re: For Those That Didn't Know, Mike Wang Got Noticed From Posting on the OS Forums (

I don't understand why 1 video game should ever be 100.00 under any market. Not to mention the people spending 100.00 on deluxe versions plus VC spending over 150.00. And you're getting content that is Already hidden on the game. Paying real money to unlock it. It's deception. And 2k isnt the only one guilty. Again, fans have to realize it's deceptive. Instead of thinking spending more money you're going to have more fun.with the game. I hate it. I deal with it but 2k needs to know a lot of people aren't falling for it anymore.

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Whether you understand it or not is irrelevant. The market is what it is. You say 2K needs to understand that people aren't falling for it anymore, all the while they're breaking records. Apparently fans get are "falling" for it. And thats not your call to make. Nimbers speak for themselves. It's cool that you don't like it. It's cool that you think some reckoning is coming. But stop acting like thats happening right now. It's not.

[jyoung]

Re: For Those That Didn't Know, Mike Wang Got Noticed From Posting on the OS Forums (

2K has deliberately designed the last couple of NBA 2K games so that you can't compete online in the MyPlayer modes unless you fork over an extra $50 for your character's base attribute upgrades or go play through 100 MyCareer games to earn enough VC to pay for the attribute upgrades.

And the only reason that 2K continues to get away with it is because the mainstream press and mainstream gamers don't care enough about sports games to be bothered by what's been going on in 2K basketball games on this generation of consoles.

There would definitely be a Star Wars Battlefront-esque backlash to this manipulative, exploitative style of game design if the mainstream press/gamers cared more about sports games.

Almost every multiplayer game nowadays monetizes clothing and emotes for avatars, but there aren't many companies bold enough to monetize multiple aspects of the gameplay (attribute points, attribute boosts, and gatorade boosts), because the companies know that if they do that, they'll face a huge consumer/public backlash. 2K has avoided all that noise just by being a sports game, which is not a "real video game" in the eyes of most gamers/media members.

I think government-mandated or industry-wide regulations are the only thing that can end this series' microtransaction madness, at this point.

[CujoMatty]

Re: For Those That Didn't Know, Mike Wang Got Noticed From Posting on the OS Forums (

They need to hire some of the slider community and modders, ijs

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They did.
They hired Leftos in 2013. Not sure if He is still working there but I think he is. He’s basically a NBA 2k modding legend.

All the “expansion” team options you see in my league are things he was making tools for on NLSC modding site prior to getting hired at 2k. I don’t think any of those things would exist in current 2k games without him.

No other games has anywhere near the kind of customization of NBA2k and companies need to understand and hire more of the modding community.While developers areoften focused on doing the things they already do better, Modders are often of the mindset of what else could we do? You want to see innovation? Sift through mod websites. It’s unbelievable.

[Poke]

Re: For Those That Didn't Know, Mike Wang Got Noticed From Posting on the OS Forums (

They did.
They hired Leftos in 2013. Not sure if He is still working there but I think he is. He’s basically a NBA 2k modding legend.

All the “expansion” team options you see in my league are things he was making tools for on NLSC modding site prior to getting hired at 2k. I don’t think any of those things would exist in current 2k games without him.

No other games has anywhere near the kind of customization of NBA2k and companies need to understand and hire more of the modding community.While developers areoften focused on doing the things they already do better, Modders are often of the mindset of what else could we do? You want to see innovation? Sift through mod websites. It’s unbelievable.

Well like you said then, they need more help.

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[ksuttonjr76]

Re: For Those That Didn't Know, Mike Wang Got Noticed From Posting on the OS Forums (

Well like you said then, they need more help.

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I have to ask this question. Does anyone know a ballpark amount how much a modder could make working for 2K Sports? For example, you could hire someone at $100K/YR just to focus exclusively on roster updates on the level that the community people do. In my mind, that could be money well spent given it could slightly increase revenue sales if you have someone who could update EVERY active player, EVERY week.

Now, I'm being nice with the $100K/YR, but you get the picture. I wouldn't think the job would pay more than $30K/YR.

[Keith01]

Re: For Those That Didn't Know, Mike Wang Got Noticed From Posting on the OS Forums (

Whether you understand it or not is irrelevant. The market is what it is. You say 2K needs to understand that people aren't falling for it anymore, all the while they're breaking records. Apparently fans get are "falling" for it. And thats not your call to make. Nimbers speak for themselves. It's cool that you don't like it. It's cool that you think some reckoning is coming. But stop acting like thats happening right now. It's not.

The market...changes. And it will change, eventually. More bad press, more annoyed customers. The game isn't worth the headache anymore. Multiple years of stupid "grinding" is going to have an effect. They deceptively sucked people back changing the algorithm of how long it took to grind early on when the game was released. Then later on they switched it back to slow af grind.

[Keith01]

Re: For Those That Didn't Know, Mike Wang Got Noticed From Posting on the OS Forums (

At the end of day, Mike is still an employee with bills to pay to support his family and not an executive. If you can't understand that, then I don't know what to tell you, my guy.

If Wang is owned by the "execs", then I guess why should we trust anything he says? He's not even in control of gameplay apparently and can't do anything. Furthermore, the thing that made 2K great was their integrity when it came to staying sim and representing the sport well. They're selling their soul, so they'll lose respect within the 2K community, guaranteed. Loss of credibility = eventual loss of sales and impact of marketing hype.

[Keith01]

Re: For Those That Didn't Know, Mike Wang Got Noticed From Posting on the OS Forums (

2K thinks they can put lipstick on a pig and keep raking in the dollars. Nah man, it ain't gonna happen. Quality rises to the top. Lack of quality gets exposed. They just haven't gotten exposed yet on a mass level and within the media, where it becomes a narrative on the company.

[Junior Moe]

Re: For Those That Didn't Know, Mike Wang Got Noticed From Posting on the OS Forums (

The market...changes. And it will change, eventually. More bad press, more annoyed customers. The game isn't worth the headache anymore. Multiple years of stupid "grinding" is going to have an effect. They deceptively sucked people back changing the algorithm of how long it took to grind early on when the game was released. Then later on they switched it back to slow af grind.

Yeah, probably. I guess we'll see. 2K seems to be doing just as well this year after the bad press last year with VC. Remember all those people who swore off 2K last year? But, one of these years I'm sure the scores of people feed up with 2Ks greed will speak with their wallet. Then again, judging by some of the comments here pining for the government to step in and regulate (instead of doing it themselves by simply not buying) something as trivial as a videogame, I have my doubts.

[Da_Czar]

Re: For Those That Didn't Know, Mike Wang Got Noticed From Posting on the OS Forums (

Maybe i posted previously that Wang was responsible for VC, but i may have spoken to broadly, i dont think he's pushing it like everyone replied to me, but he might be in some way connected to the way VC works in the game, does he or does he not influence the way Mycareer is made? and how slow the progression system is, the grind and reward system, if he is then that system is designed to incentivize virtual currency, and no progression carried over from game to game, is he involved with these things? If he isn't than who is the director of those things.

Mycareer is a completely different team in terms of how it is built etc. No, Mike does not have ANY say in relation to VC. We work on gameplay fam. That's it. There are separate teams that work on each "mode". I have been saying this for years in here.

Also while tuning shots seems simple it simply isn't. The skill gap between players and all the different ratings and abilities and badges as well as the difference between online human and off-line AI defensive recovery speeds and lag etc makes it difficult and people will usually have a problem no matter how he tunes it.

It can definitely be better but that actually requires more balance across all area's of game-play. There will be times you guys don't understand the vision and think we have changed course but most times were in the middle of developing something to address those issues sometimes that takes 2-3 years depending on the size of the problem.

Think of the transition upgrade. The first year you hated it, the second year it got better, and this year it is the best in the series. Is it perfect? NO. But is it better than the everyone run into the paint days absolutely. To get here we had to redesign and rebuild from scratch. No matter how many hours you throw at it it is going to take 2-3 years.

But if you only played that first year you would think and many said these guys don't understand basketball. With a big system, you rarely go from not working too, this is perfect. You go from bad too not so bad into ok, into I can kind of see it, to almost there.

Usually, by that time it has been 3 years and you have worked out most of the bugs but guess what? To get the system to do what you need now you have to upgrade so you start over giving the system more capability.

Mike is that dude. No one has had their hands on more of the historic hoops titles than he has.

[splashmountain]

Re: For Those That Didn't Know, Mike Wang Got Noticed From Posting on the OS Forums (

Mycareer is a completely different team in terms of how it is built etc. No, Mike does not have ANY say in relation to VC. We work on gameplay fam. That's it. There are separate teams that work on each "mode". I have been saying this for years in here.

Also while tuning shots seems simple it simply isn't. The skill gap between players and all the different ratings and abilities and badges as well as the difference between online human and off-line AI defensive recovery speeds and lag etc makes it difficult and people will usually have a problem no matter how he tunes it.

It can definitely be better but that actually requires more balance across all area's of game-play. There will be times you guys don't understand the vision and think we have changed course but most times were in the middle of developing something to address those issues sometimes that takes 2-3 years depending on the size of the problem.

Think of the transition upgrade. The first year you hated it, the second year it got better, and this year it is the best in the series. Is it perfect? NO. But is it better than the everyone run into the paint days absolutely. To get here we had to redesign and rebuild from scratch. No matter how many hours you throw at it it is going to take 2-3 years.

But if you only played that first year you would think and many said these guys don't understand basketball. With a big system, you rarely go from not working too, this is perfect. You go from bad too not so bad into ok, into I can kind of see it, to almost there.

Usually, by that time it has been 3 years and you have worked out most of the bugs but guess what? To get the system to do what you need now you have to upgrade so you start over giving the system more capability.

Mike is that dude. No one has had their hands on more of the historic hoops titles than he has.

look at what yall have done, yall have caused one of the gawds to ascend upon us and explain why zeus is really zeus but even he doesnt have control over everything and things take time. lol. whats good Czar...been a min.

I got one question for you, well 2.
#1 is the ball ever actually loose and live (able to be bumped, picked up, stolen, blocked, rebounded) and open to programmed physics?

#2 do you think some of these issues occur and/or take so long to fix may be due to thinking about the issues the wrong way, making it that much more difficult to correct?
for a ridiculous example to make my point: If you need to go to a building thats 12 blocks away. and right now, the route you take is some sort of zig zaggy route in a bus on the streets, to get there because there seems to be construction on every other block. so what should be a straight shot can't be done. so now to fix the zigzag, you have to wait for the construction to be completed. this takes time.

But I would say, why are we taking the bus when we could take a private helicopter? would still be a straight shot. and the guys down below can still complete their construction.

[Keith01]

Re: For Those That Didn't Know, Mike Wang Got Noticed From Posting on the OS Forums (

Also while tuning shots seems simple it simply isn't. The skill gap between players and all the different ratings and abilities and badges as well as the difference between online human and off-line AI defensive recovery speeds and lag etc makes it difficult and people will usually have a problem no matter how he tunes it.

Whats good and thanks for keeping us informed! The gameplay would be amazingly impacted in a positive way if 2K nerfed sharpshooters/stretchs and/or their HOF badges. When you combine HOF Corner Specialist + HOF Deep Range Deadeye + HOF Limitless Range + HOF Catch & Shoot + HOF Dimer + Pick & Pop of course it's going to be OP. This should be able to be done pretty fast 'cause 2K has had no issue nerfing other builds in the past. Idk how many screenshots & videos from pro am/JRC of 100 point games, hand in face greens, 80% or 90% from 3, 2K needs to understand these builds are OP - and have been for 3 yrs. It fundamentally changes and impacts how the game is played with the amount of spacing it creates and the unrealism it causes.

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: For Those That Didn't Know, Mike Wang Got Noticed From Posting on the OS Forums (

Funny...dudes trying to get their grievances in.

[olajuwon34]

Re: For Those That Didn't Know, Mike Wang Got Noticed From Posting on the OS Forums (

Mycareer is a completely different team in terms of how it is built etc. No, Mike does not have ANY say in relation to VC. We work on gameplay fam. That's it. There are separate teams that work on each "mode". I have been saying this for years in here.

Also while tuning shots seems simple it simply isn't. The skill gap between players and all the different ratings and abilities and badges as well as the difference between online human and off-line AI defensive recovery speeds and lag etc makes it difficult and people will usually have a problem no matter how he tunes it.

It can definitely be better but that actually requires more balance across all area's of game-play. There will be times you guys don't understand the vision and think we have changed course but most times were in the middle of developing something to address those issues sometimes that takes 2-3 years depending on the size of the problem.

Think of the transition upgrade. The first year you hated it, the second year it got better, and this year it is the best in the series. Is it perfect? NO. But is it better than the everyone run into the paint days absolutely. To get here we had to redesign and rebuild from scratch. No matter how many hours you throw at it it is going to take 2-3 years.

But if you only played that first year you would think and many said these guys don't understand basketball. With a big system, you rarely go from not working too, this is perfect. You go from bad too not so bad into ok, into I can kind of see it, to almost there.

Usually, by that time it has been 3 years and you have worked out most of the bugs but guess what? To get the system to do what you need now you have to upgrade so you start over giving the system more capability.

Mike is that dude. No one has had their hands on more of the historic hoops titles than he has.

How do you feel working for a company that tries to nickel and dime players in cheap ways, i know your in the gameplay department, but still most these guys on here turn a blind eye to 2k and what they do and always come back with the excuse that you guys have good offline modes, for me that doesnt mean anything if the other stuff still remains, but really how do you feel designing a game that has core gambling mechanics and cheap ways to incentivize virtual currency? rather than just having solid ironed out gameplay each year.