NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

[MrWrestling3]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

I’ve been pushing for years to get ACE options in the roster edit & MyLeague coaching menus, but it hasn’t been a priority for them.

Dropping Ball Handling to 0-5 will reduce the driving but I don’t like that solution since it introduces other problems. There are roster edits that fix the issue better IMO. It takes a lot of time to get Drive/Attack/Dish tendencies to play out the way you want this year. I’d drop Drive to 0 for most players, keep Attack below 50 & keep Dish above 50 for most players.

I’m almost ready to throw the towel in on 2K20 with how much ACE controls & the shooting/charging foul issues being so obvious.

I have found that the foul sliders kind of playing the shooting foul issues.If you set Shooting Foul Tendency too high compared to Reaching Foul Tendency, players will almost never try to contest shots and will instead reach in for steal repeatedly.This can cause players to almost never actually commit a shooting foul because the CPU sticks with the "safer" option of going for steals.This also causes other issues as steal attempts can also trigger cut off animations and badges such as Clamps.

Setting Reaching Fouls just slightly higher than Shooting Fouls will make the CPU go for contests more.Ironically this tends to result in more shooting fouls(because the CPU is actually contesting more often instead of going for strips). I have found it doesn't hurt steal numbers much,if at all, since it just makes the CPU be more careful about when to reach in (in some cases it resulted in more realistic on ball steals)

[jk31]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

It's ACE. That play call is completely out of our control.

Yeah but i have ACE activated in online Play, too, and still it does Not Happen There.

[Vedreanu]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

I have found that the foul sliders kind of playing the shooting foul issues.If you set Shooting Foul Tendency too high compared to Reaching Foul Tendency, players will almost never try to contest shots and will instead reach in for steal repeatedly.This can cause players to almost never actually commit a shooting foul because the CPU sticks with the "safer" option of going for steals.This also causes other issues as steal attempts can also trigger cut off animations and badges such as Clamps.

I am confused. Reaching foul tendency, if I remember correctly, there is no such thing? You meant reaching foul slider, right?

I always have all foul sliders at 100 except shooting ones, they are a bit lower.

The best way to achieve more non-shoting fouls, reaching ones in particular, is to lower the ball handling SLIDER to cca 15, give every player an ENFORCER badge and lower the ball security to 0.

But this creates other problems, CPU cant create a thing with such low ball handling.

[Vedreanu]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

I’ve been pushing for years to get ACE options in the roster edit & MyLeague coaching menus, but it hasn’t been a priority for them.

Dropping Ball Handling to 0-5 will reduce the driving but I don’t like that solution since it introduces other problems. There are roster edits that fix the issue better IMO. It takes a lot of time to get Drive/Attack/Dish tendencies to play out the way you want this year. I’d drop Drive to 0 for most players, keep Attack below 50 & keep Dish above 50 for most players.

I’m almost ready to throw the towel in on 2K20 with how much ACE controls & the shooting/charging foul issues being so obvious.

I dont know, mate, I've really tried almost everything. For sure there were some results with pushing everyone below 50 with FINNISH (attack the basket), but then again, points in the paint become obsolete. I also have a formula where every player need to have his DISH tend at least 5 points above his FINNISH tend. This gives some good results.

There is also a problem with many rosters (including ATD) where players have their floater, stepback, midrange-drive, close-drive values set to low, so driving layup prevails to much.



What do you think lowering the DRIVE tendency would achieve? I always thought "DRIVE" is the main parameter which also regulates the occurence of FINNISH behaviour.
In other words: if a player has his DRIVE tendency set to 100, he will use every possible opportunity to drive to the basket and DRIVE*FINNISH/100 would be the formula for "real" tendency for relentless driving to the rim, aka true finnishing.

But I also thought SHOOTING tendency acts this well too, as a denominator for other shooting sub-tendencies, but its clearly not the case. I tried with lowering SHOOTING tend for all players to ZERO, and nothing happened, the same players had the same behaviours.

I really dont know whats even the point of global SHOOTING tendency.

[MrWrestling3]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

I am confused. Reaching foul tendency, if I remember correctly, there is no such thing? You meant reaching foul slider, right?

I always have all foul sliders at 100 except shooting ones, they are a bit lower.

The best way to achieve more non-shoting fouls, reaching ones in particular, is to lower the ball handling SLIDER to cca 15, give every player an ENFORCER badge and lower the ball security to 0.

But this creates other problems, CPU cant create a thing with such low ball handling.

Yes,I meant the reaching foul slider;I guess I read so much about tendencies in this thread that I wrote the wrong thing.

The best way I can explain it is that the foul sliders kind of work as a team on defense.The CPU takes these into consideration during gameplay and will tend toward the option (steal/strip vs contest/shot block,etc.) which is less likely to generate the foul.Think of it as the CPU coach telling his players "Hey guys, the refs are calling this foul tonight, so do this other thing on defense instead".

[YungGun]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

The best way I can explain it is that the foul sliders kind of work as a team on defense.The CPU takes these into consideration during gameplay and will tend toward the option (steal/strip vs contest/shot block,etc.) which is less likely to generate the foul.Think of it as the CPU coach telling his players "Hey guys, the refs are calling this foul tonight, so do this other thing on defense instead".

So wouldn't the best thing to for fouls be to give each foul slider the same value? That way the CPU won't try to cheat and use what's less likely to be called. In the default 2K sliders, majority of the foul sliders are set up this way.


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[Vedreanu]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

So wouldn't the best thing to for fouls be to give each foul slider the same value? That way the CPU won't try to cheat and use what's less likely to be called. In the default 2K sliders, majority of the foul sliders are set up this way.


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yeah, I had all foul sliders to max for quite a while and very little nonshooters appeared

btw fouls fall with speeding up the game - no dribble drive and nosetup dribble tendencies are quite irritating in original roster, but when set high as they should be and combined with higher DISH (to stop spamming the layups and have more the drive and kicks) the game is so fast that defensive players dont even get a chance to make a foul, they are constantly in the chase

good example was this experimental cpu vs cpu match of mine, really great flow, maybe even to great:

https://youtu.be/u4X5u-DzBss

only 11 fouls with stealing tendency for ALL players to max!
with physical defense for both teams
and with all players having enforcer badge

unnacceptable!

also, 37 assists for warriors is a bit to high but ok, if theres some aspects I am willing to sacrifice in trying to achieve realistic look, thats it

[YungGun]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

only 11 fouls with stealing tendency for ALL players to max!
with physical defense for both teams
and with all players having enforcer badge

unnacceptable!

Yeah, idk what's the deal with tendencies, but they either don't work this year or I'm doing something wrong. Even with the reach tendency maxed, and all other defensive tendencies zeroed out, I don't think players are reaching in enough. I even raised the steal slider to 100, and they're still not reaching.

You said something that was interesting tho in regards to the speed or pace of the game itself having an effect on fouls. I never thought about that, but it makes sense if you look at the NBA today. Now I have to fire up 2K and do some more testing [emoji23]



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[MrWrestling3]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

So wouldn't the best thing to for fouls be to give each foul slider the same value? That way the CPU won't try to cheat and use what's less likely to be called. In the default 2K sliders, majority of the foul sliders are set up this way.


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It's a good place to start.Increase all of the foul sliders a bit to the same value and see where the game is at;if there is a particular problem with certain fouls still not being called,you can then go back in and tweak them just a little bit to try and bring them up.

In your case, you didn't think there were enough reaching fouls.A good baseline to start with would be all foul sliders to 70, then bump up Shooting Fouls by 2 or 3 points, and see where things are at.Also make sure that Go For On Ball Steals isn't set super low.

[Vedreanu]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

Yeah, idk what's the deal with tendencies, but they either don't work this year or I'm doing something wrong. Even with the reach tendency maxed, and all other defensive tendencies zeroed out, I don't think players are reaching in enough. I even raised the steal slider to 100, and they're still not reaching.

You said something that was interesting tho in regards to the speed or pace of the game itself having an effect on fouls. I never thought about that, but it makes sense if you look at the NBA today. Now I have to fire up 2K and do some more testing [emoji23]

Tendencies either work in such a complex way its almost impossible to comprehend for outsiders like us, or most are just broken. I think its a bit of both.

Players will start to reach more when the ball handler is bad, aka when setting the ball handling slider low. Try with 0-15, you will definitely see a bunch more non-shooters called. But, its not the same game anymore with such a low ball handling value.


MAYBE something can be achieved by pushing SHOOTING DEFENSE - GATHER slider high, like 70+. This way defenders should be playing much closer to attacking players, but the sideeffect of this is - less three pointer taken globaly. Which is a big no-no for me
If I have to sacrifice something, then let it be the reaching fouls.

ANOTHER option is setting all defenders to TIGHT/SMOTHER defense. But,
1) I dont like having all players being guarded the same way. It doesnt make sense. Giannis for instance is gonna love it.

2) ACE appears to override this defensive setting the most! I've had some success by applying various defensive settings, but some get overiden, some dont. Seems to me that on-ball/off-ball defense is one of those aspects ACE bypasess the most.

(Just cant get AI players to keep tight on Brook bloody Lopez and stop giving him open 3 after open 3 all day long. I mean really!! What the hell is even that?? Why is ACE so stupid regarding those things? Choosing to guard on GAP the man who's only outsite threat is 3p shot, ffs!?

I mean, even he calls himself the SPLASH MOUNTAIN )

[Vedreanu]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

And btw, since we have some nice discussion going - maybe someone can finally fill me up regarding COACH badges and game styles:

do they have any influence on the gameplay whatsoever?

[youALREADYknow]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

What do you think lowering the DRIVE tendency would achieve? I always thought "DRIVE" is the main parameter which also regulates the occurence of FINNISH behaviour.
In other words: if a player has his DRIVE tendency set to 100, he will use every possible opportunity to drive to the basket and DRIVE*FINNISH/100 would be the formula for "real" tendency for relentless driving to the rim, aka true finnishing.

What you described is how it worked in 2K19, but I haven’t seen the same behavior in 2K20.

As far as I can tell from testing, the Drive tendency in 2K20 controls how long the dribble drive remains active inside of the paint. The Attack tendency controls the style of drive once the player reaches the paint. Layup/dunk/floater tendencies and Slashing badges determine the style of finish inside of the paint.

I’ve used the Drive tendency at 0 for most players to get rid of the forced shots through defenders when a player drives to the paint but isn’t driving aggressively. In other words, using Drive as the likelihood of driving through contact instead of using dribble drives. In reality, the play design and other tendencies have MUCH more to do with whether a player will attempt to use the dribble to penetrate a defense from the Mid/3PT ranges. The Spot Up Drive & Off-Screen Drive tendencies are much more useful to create style of play for individual players than using the global Drive tendency.

Attack vs Dish to Open Man is a more important relationship than Attack/Drive. I agree with you that having the Dish/Pass tendency higher than Attack allows the CPU to play more realistically and keeps the ball moving in half court sets. I don’t set them based on their relationship, but my scales for Dish to Open are 50-99.

[youALREADYknow]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

Yes,I meant the reaching foul slider;I guess I read so much about tendencies in this thread that I wrote the wrong thing.

The best way I can explain it is that the foul sliders kind of work as a team on defense.The CPU takes these into consideration during gameplay and will tend toward the option (steal/strip vs contest/shot block,etc.) which is less likely to generate the foul.Think of it as the CPU coach telling his players "Hey guys, the refs are calling this foul tonight, so do this other thing on defense instead".

My testing has found a similar effect, but I don’t think you are right about the reason being fouls or the foul sliders. I’ve found that the CPU defender will perform the action that is most likely to generate success based on the defensive sliders, ball handler ability, and badges equipped. Haven’t found any correlation with only avoiding fouls and the relative level of foul sliders, but I have seen that each type of foul slider going up/down triggers more of those context animations (regardless of whether the foul is called).

Here’s what I mean by generate success...

Raise the Shot Defense Gather/Release & Contact Frequency sliders to 100. You will see defenders going for body up shot blocks that have 0 Blocking tendencies and low Block attributes. The AI knows they have a better chance of getting blocks with more contact on drives so they attempt more blocks (also leading to more shooting fouls on drives if shooting foul sliders are at a decent level).

Drop Ball Handling & Attempt Steal sliders to 1. You wouldn’t expect to see reach-ins, but defenders will reach more with a perceived “loose” ball handler in the hopes of getting steals. Again, the AI knows the advantage.

This also plays out the other way where ball handlers will try to Iso drive on mismatches with poor On-Ball Defenders or post iso on poor post defenders. This is a big reason I keep defensive attribute sliders higher than offensive ones to encourage more ball movement and fewer iso action from players without those play types.

I see a ton of illegal screen, loose ball, and off-ball holding calls in my CPU/CPU games. It’s mostly because of mismatches in Badges & slider levels that promote contact. 2K20 forces you to over-use badges to trigger context animations. You usually need to have a badge on either side of the matchup.

Off-Ball Holding Badges: Slippery Off-Ball vs Off-Ball Pest. I usually see this called when a Gold/HOF OBP is matched up with a player who has any level of SOB.
Off-Ball Holding Sliders: Jump Shot Defense Strength (Gather) at a higher level will tell defenders to play shooters closer at the point of off-ball/on-ball screens and jukes/moves to get shooters open.
Illegal Screen Badges: Brick Wall vs Pick Dodger. I usually see this called when a Silver/Gold/HOF PD runs through a screen from a player with no Brick Wall badge.
Illegal Screen Sliders: Illegal Screen Frequency

[MrWrestling3]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

My testing has found a similar effect, but I don’t think you are right about the reason being fouls or the foul sliders. I’ve found that the CPU defender will perform the action that is most likely to generate success based on the defensive sliders, ball handler ability, and badges equipped. Haven’t found any correlation with only avoiding fouls and the relative level of foul sliders, but I have seen that each type of foul slider going up/down triggers more of those context animations (regardless of whether the foul is called).

Here’s what I mean by generate success...

Raise the Shot Defense Gather/Release & Contact Frequency sliders to 100. You will see defenders going for body up shot blocks that have 0 Blocking tendencies and low Block attributes. The AI knows they have a better chance of getting blocks with more contact on drives so they attempt more blocks (also leading to more shooting fouls on drives if shooting foul sliders are at a decent level).

Drop Ball Handling & Attempt Steal sliders to 1. You wouldn’t expect to see reach-ins, but defenders will reach more with a perceived “loose” ball handler in the hopes of getting steals. Again, the AI knows the advantage.

This also plays out the other way where ball handlers will try to Iso drive on mismatches with poor On-Ball Defenders or post iso on poor post defenders. This is a big reason I keep defensive attribute sliders higher than offensive ones to encourage more ball movement and fewer iso action from players without those play types.

I see a ton of illegal screen, loose ball, and off-ball holding calls in my CPU/CPU games. It’s mostly because of mismatches in Badges & slider levels that promote contact. 2K20 forces you to over-use badges to trigger context animations. You usually need to have a badge on either side of the matchup.

Off-Ball Holding Badges: Slippery Off-Ball vs Off-Ball Pest. I usually see this called when a Gold/HOF OBP is matched up with a player who has any level of SOB.
Off-Ball Holding Sliders: Jump Shot Defense Strength (Gather) at a higher level will tell defenders to play shooters closer at the point of off-ball/on-ball screens and jukes/moves to get shooters open.
Illegal Screen Badges: Brick Wall vs Pick Dodger. I usually see this called when a Silver/Gold/HOF PD runs through a screen from a player with no Brick Wall badge.
Illegal Screen Sliders: Illegal Screen Frequency

I have had mostly similar results with what I have tested as far as sliders and triggering animations; when it comes to foul calls I have found that the fouls sliders have some effect.Now this is not a major game changing effect, rather it is more like a slight weighting effect that is able to goose a few calls one way or the other.

This is what I have noticed:

-Adjusting the Over The Back Foul slider to higher levels there are less instances of instances of CPU players who are out of position or boxed out attempting to jump for the ball.

-Blocking Foul Slider has a small effect on how tightly defenders guard ball handlers;at higher levels they move their feet a bit more,at lower levels they try to hip ride more often.This mostly affects players who do not have the Clamps badge or only have it on Bronze.

-Loose Ball Foul Slider has a small effect on box out battles; at higher levels there are slightly less push/shove/swim animations from boxed out CPU players that do not have the Worm badge.

[youALREADYknow]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

I have mad mostly similar results with what I have tested as far as sliders and triggering animations; when it comes to foul calls I have found that the fouls sliders have some effect.Now this is not a major game changing effect, rather it is more like a slight weighting effect that is able to goose a few calls one way or the other.

This is what I have noticed:

-Adjusting the Over The Back Foul slider to higher levels there are less instances of instances of CPU players who are out of position or boxed out attempting to jump for the ball.

-Blocking Foul Slider has a small effect on how tightly defenders guard ball handlers;at higher levels they move their feet a bit more,at lower levels they try to hip ride more often.This mostly affects players who do not have the Clamps badge or only have it on Bronze.

-Loose Ball Foul Slider has a small effect on box out battles; at higher levels there are slightly less push/shove/swim animations from boxed out CPU players that do not have the Worm badge.

Agree with all of this! These foul sliders are giving the AI guidance on what context animations have a better chance of success.

If we could document all of the relationships, then I'm sure we could come up with some good suggestions for the community on combinations to get results (more/less fouls of each type).