2K needs to stop asking casual Park players like Agent00 about gameplay

[ataman5]

Re: 2K needs to stop asking casual Park players like Agent00 about gameplay

Football Manager by SiGames are king in terms of looking at real feedback and creating a real simulation of the sport game they create. (They don't care for masses at all if the subject is about solid feedback!) They just try to replicate the good game of simulation and fun comes with it on its own.

As the last year first released clearly showed that all 2k and most of their devs starting from Mike Wang care is Youtubers and Twitter(both are not reliable sources of feedback in any logical business) but ofcourse the logic there is to cater those casuals so that makes it a "logical" way of doing/creating a game.

For the last 2-3 years 2k has definitely sailed away from being a simulation basketball game, yes there are very strong parts of basketball simulation in it because of all the legacy that they've been building for years yet they go apart and away from those to the other end of having a fun arcade game in which you have a ball and you just try to put it thru a basket with a green release race and before that you make all those silly cheesy whatever moves you can to think you play any kind of a streetball..

It's sad and i think we, here on OS simheads can't really do anything about it.

[MrWrestling3]

Re: 2K needs to stop asking casual Park players like Agent00 about gameplay

Football Manager by SiGames are king in terms of looking at real feedback and creating a real simulation of the sport game they create. (They don't care for masses at all if the subject is about solid feedback!) They just try to replicate the good game of simulation and fun comes with it on its own.

As the last year first released clearly showed that all 2k and most of their devs starting from Mike Wang care is Youtubers and Twitter(both are not reliable sources of feedback in any logical business) but ofcourse the logic there is to cater those casuals so that makes it a "logical" way of doing/creating a game.

For the last 2-3 years 2k has definitely sailed away from being a simulation basketball game, yes there are very strong parts of basketball simulation in it because of all the legacy that they've been building for years yet they go apart and away from those to the other end of having a fun arcade game in which you have a ball and you just try to put it thru a basket with a green release race and before that you make all those silly cheesy whatever moves you can to think you play any kind of a streetball..

It's sad and i think we, here on OS simheads can't really do anything about it.

Yep, and you see it in a lot of long running franchises...the tendency in video gaming for some years now has been to casualize casualize casualize, or as the folks up in the PR Department like call it..."Making the experience more accessible to a wider audience". This approach is best typified by the somewhat famous "When you press a button,something awesome has to happen!" quote from Bioware while promoting Dragon Age 2.

While this approach often works from a sales standpoint,in the long run it almost always results in a decline in quality and the eventual disenfranchisement of the original core audience who become frustrated and inevitably move on to other things as the game slowly drifts away from all of the elements that attracted them to the game in the first place.

The AAA video game industry is like Hollywood in that they'd generally rather continue to make a mediocre product that makes 200 million than a quality product that makes 50 million.The only time the trend really reverses is when they bungle something so badly that people walk away en masse.

[loso_34]

Re: 2K needs to stop asking casual Park players like Agent00 about gameplay

Yeah a popular adage is that you tune for the elite player in H2H (if an average joe-schmoe can get 30 with Giannis the elite guy will get 80) but you disregard their gameplay suggestions.

Too frequently they'll ask for gameplay that caters to their play-style--even if its to the game's detriment. So no, let them give their opinions on youtube and leave them there lol.

i think they tuned shooting for the elite players at launch thats why everyone had issues shooting. they later on went in the opposite direction with shooting and theres no balance..everyone can green lol.

lastly why is agent even a voice? this guy doesn’t play “comp”.

[mb625]

Re: 2K needs to stop asking casual Park players like Agent00 about gameplay

Most of those youtubers just want pay to win. They want to spend money on packs and upgrades, and be rewarded with easy wins and overpowered everything. They get mad when there galaxy opal lineups don't equal wins every single time. Agent isn't even considered a good player lol.

Agent doesn't play MyTeam. Most of the MyTeam YTers do at least attempt a "no money spent" thing and try to show that you can win/have a good team without spending money.

Further, at this point, everyone is running all GOs in that mode now that they're dirt cheap, so an average game is going to mostly be about who's better, with the exception of GOAT cards.

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[Hustle Westbrook]

Re: 2K needs to stop asking casual Park players like Agent00 about gameplay

Meh. They went the "realism" route this year and the gameplay was clunky and ***. I'll gladly sacrifice some of that "realism" just to have some player control back and I'm optimistic that's the route they'll take for 2K21.

[mb625]

Re: 2K needs to stop asking casual Park players like Agent00 about gameplay

Meh. They went the "realism" route this year and the gameplay was clunky and ***. I'll gladly sacrifice some of that "realism" just to have some player control back and I'm optimistic that's the route they'll take for 2K21.

How so? This year doesn't really feel all that "sim" to me...

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[Kushmir]

Re: 2K needs to stop asking casual Park players like Agent00 about gameplay

How so? This year doesn't really feel all that "sim" to me..

Yeah me either. You lost me here, Hustle...you mean because at launch you had to basically green shots to shoot well consistently? That's not realism IMO --thats hard coding shooting percentages without considering what the opponent does and it was doomed to fail. The defense should always play a big part in how well a team shoots.

Realism always comes second to balance and shooting success should be a mixture of Openness, Timing, and Realistic shooting percentages. Now when players of similar skill compete and play COMPETENTLY should shooting percentages should naturally mirror what we see in reality? SURE.

But when the opponent plays zone or otherwise repeatedly gives shooters WIDE OPEN shots especially the corner three (the best shot in basketball) we should see shooting numbers that are much higher than we see in NBA basketball.

[Hustle Westbrook]

Re: 2K needs to stop asking casual Park players like Agent00 about gameplay

How so? This year doesn't really feel all that "sim" to me...

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I’m talking about player movement.

[mb625]

Re: 2K needs to stop asking casual Park players like Agent00 about gameplay

I’m talking about player movement.

Can you unpack that? I'm still a little confused as to what you mean. Certain driving animations do feel clunky, but I've never felt that to be all that realistic. Defensive players still kind of feel "skate-y" to me as well.

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[Dbaja22]

Re: 2K needs to stop asking casual Park players like Agent00 about gameplay

Can someone suggest the best sliders for some Realism please ? I haven't played 2k in a few years and don't know which sliders are best .

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[Baebae32]

Re: 2K needs to stop asking casual Park players like Agent00 about gameplay

The writing has been on the wall for the past few years now. Will give it a few years to see if the trend is truly confirmed. If so....its been a nice run

[MoneyOvaHuds]

2K needs to stop asking casual Park players like Agent00 about gameplay

Agent one of the respected in the community at least it wasn’t flight [emoji23]

[EarvGotti]

Re: 2K needs to stop asking casual Park players like Agent00 about gameplay

Interviews like this one really bother me. But it's obvious that the devs don't have as much control as they had say 10 years ago when developing a game like 2K11.

Take-Two wants their numbers ramped up, so Wang and those guys can only do so much with the agenda they're given.

The brutal truth is: (and Da Czar has said this many times on Twitter)....the SIM demographic simply does not "spend" enough on the game to keep it going in the direction we want it to.

https://twitter.com/Da_Czar/status/1216126254770008064?s=20

As SIM gamers, we're fighting a losing battle when it comes to 2K and this is proof of that. 2K has just gotten too big for their own good and they can't cater to multiple demographics. There are NO big Youtubers that play Play Now Online, MyLeague Online, or any of the core SIM style modes in 2K. When you put "fun" ahead of a proper simulation foundation, the game will end up losing its credibility from a competitive standpoint.

[m29a]

Re: 2K needs to stop asking casual Park players like Agent00 about gameplay

In terms of making the game more simulation? Sure. But the game especially in the last few years has grown to be truly massive, consistently selling over 10 million. Their strategy has clearly been working and then some on top of it.

I get the frustration though. As Da Czar also said, Sim players have benefited from the explosion in some ways. The added sales probably do help a lot in terms of continuing to expand the game further, even if it's not always the way that everyone can agree on.

[Junior Moe]

Re: 2K needs to stop asking casual Park players like Agent00 about gameplay

In terms of making the game more simulation? Sure. But the game especially in the last few years has grown to be truly massive, consistently selling over 10 million. Their strategy has clearly been working and then some on top of it.

I get the frustration though. As Da Czar also said, Sim players have benefited from the explosion in some ways. The added sales probably do help a lot in terms of continuing to expand the game further, even if it's not always the way that everyone can agree on.

I agree. For the last few years I gave been all for 2K making bank money off the online crowd, at least some of that trickles back to us "sim" and offline players. The more money they make, the more they can do provided they show the desire to appease us on some level. It's a simple concept to me; money = influence. It's that way in every industry. I dont see online players as a scourge. The Agent crowd spend their 60$ for the base game all the same as us. 2K blew up once those people came onboard so they deserve some influence.

I have even floated the idea of us offline players paying for things like playable G league or TNT presentation package or other offline centric components. Create a monetary voice for us. People snap about how 2K already makes enough and predatory practices and that it needs to be included in the 60$. I kind of get that but at the end of the day I'll pay to have what I want. I never subscribed to the notion that gamers are too dumb to know what's going on. People arent getting taken advantage of they buy what they want like anything else.

I buy WWE2K and pay the 5$ to unlock every wrestler because I just want to play with Attitude Era stars like Bret Hart, The Rock and Stone Cold. On 2K Playgrounds 2, paid the 10$ (I think) to unlock everything. When my son and I play, we just want to have fun. I'd gladly pay 30$ or 40$ to have NFL Head Coach layered onto Madden. Money talks.

For the sake of argument let's say that 500K of 2Ks player base are hardcore MyLeague players. We pay 10$ for the playable Gleague. That 5 million bucks. I know everything has a cost on the dev side as well but let's say that more than covers the time investment. I'd imagine we'd get more of a voice in shaping things.

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