Defense is completely broken

[bls]

Re: Defense is completely broken

IMO, defensive positioning has improved big time next gen. Help defense and rotation is still a big WIP but nowhere as hopeless as current gen felt.

but some of the design decisions undermine the improvements.

These "slithery finisher" type badges completely ignoring good defensive positioning.

The contact dunks/ long uninteruptuble dunk animations disregarding interior defense. Players have NO fear driving into crowds....

Hands up defense being nerfed heavily.

The charges are great but we still aren't punishing guys leaning on turbo enough. A heavy hip ride animation into a shot attempt should be low %. You shouldn't be able to 'slip' off of these hip rides so easily either.

Cause and effect. Teach players that this will result in a negative outcome, and playstyles will change.



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24 I agree with everything you stated here except the current gen help and rotation being hopeless. Current gen help and rotation D is some of the best of the series for me. I don’t have any issues regarding that area of the game when it comes to current.

It’s kind of ironic though cause some of the other things you mention is pretty decent in the current gen like the low % on shots taking during hip ride animation. The thing current gen is missing is the charges.


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[jk31]

Re: Defense is completely broken

24 I agree with everything you stated here except the current gen help and rotation being hopeless. Current gen help and rotation D is some of the best of the series for me. I don’t have any issues regarding that area of the game when it comes to current.

It’s kind of ironic though cause some of the other things you mention is pretty decent in the current gen like the low % on shots taking during hip ride animation. The thing current gen is missing is the charges.


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current gen helpside d? are you serious? this is the worst that i remember. the first help is almost always too slow to guard the drive (if it even is triggered, often Times the d decides that "gap" or "leave him" means you should guard you nonshooting opponent deny in the weakside corner) and the second help is completely nonexistent.

[TonyBake]

Re: Defense is completely broken

One of the main reasons I took a huge break from 2K21 (current gen) was how horrible the defense was lol. In 2K20, the help D and especially P&R D were bad but the right defensive settings combined with playing good manual help D when needed could mitigate. But in 2K21, I swear it's like the defensive settings don't work. Everyone hugs to their guy no matter the setting I put, almost refusing to help on drives.

But that wasn't even the biggest problem to me. More than ever this year, it feels like the offense gets to move at like 5x speed compared to the defense, like the offense is so twitchy and speed-boosty but controlling defenders feels super weighted and slow. It's weird. Even when I'm controlling on offense it's like I feel too fast for the defense, which probably explains why I can take Dejounte Murray, an average sometimes below average finisher, and dunk 85% of the time on a drive. Ridiculous.

I'm hoping the right sliders can fix that issue offline, but online play is not fun with how horrible the defense is. I'd rather go back to 2K18 with the blowby cheese because at least then you could stop it if you knew what you were doing and the help D was more effective.

[bls]

Re: Defense is completely broken

current gen helpside d? are you serious? this is the worst that i remember. the first help is almost always too slow to guard the drive (if it even is triggered, often Times the d decides that "gap" or "leave him" means you should guard you nonshooting opponent deny in the weakside corner) and the second help is completely nonexistent.

Yeah, no problem for me jk, Every setting I make for a defender it works for me. This is current gen.

This is playing with the Pistons as well.


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[luda06]

Re: Defense is completely broken

But that wasn't even the biggest problem to me. More than ever this year, it feels like the offense gets to move at like 5x speed compared to the defense, like the offense is so twitchy and speed-boosty but controlling defenders feels super weighted and slow.

A common strategy for many players online is to take advantage of this. Turbo left and then right at a wide angle. It's like a crossover in slow-mo, but it works the same.

[Vyaras]

Re: Defense is completely broken

The horrible defense is one of the main reasons I gave up on the game. Its been getting worse year after year. I think you have a problem when it becomes a yearly ritual that users have to come up with the right combination of settings and sliders just to get the game to play properly. I don't see how developers can play this and not see these issues.


I think it's becoming more and more obvious that they're going down this direction on purpose to increase sales. The whole "simulation" aspect of the series just seems like a gimmick at this point. It's unfortunate to see how bad they've mutilated this series.

[Levistick]

Re: Defense is completely broken

Yes, the inconsistency of defensive plans and the too overpowered slashing players (Anteto, Westbrook, etc.), the new shooting mechanics where you have to green almost everything, etc, etc... all of that makes this game the worst NBA2k (from a sim perspective) of the decade... Involution.

I... don't disagree with this.

I like 2K21, I'm getting enjoyment from it. I had fun with it on current gen, and I am liking it even more on next gen.

But it is frustrating when shots require a green to go in, leaving me shooting < 25% from anything that isn't a driving dunk / layup / free throw, and when the defensive AI is so bad that even on Hall Of Fame, virtually any guard can blow by the defense to the rim off nothing but a screen, and if the defense does collapse, it sets up for an easy lob.

Is there a level of fun to be had with a game full of driving dunks and alley oops? Hell yes! My Orlando Magic are like Lob City 2.0 with Fultz / Anthony / Bamba / Gordon and it's fun as hell.

But its not even a little bit sim.

So I mean, idk. It is what it is I guess. Nothing beats what I felt was the peak of NBA2K for me, NBA2K9 - NBA2K12 or so. I had a ton of good memories from those years... maybe because my Orlando Magic were good lol. But while the game is fun, it's probably the least sim that its ever been since I've been playing

[ILLSmak]

Re: Defense is completely broken

In 2k21 it seems like most defensive settings don't have any effect at all. I played against the guy in our league that has Steph Curry. I know he runs him at SG to get him open with off ball screens. So what would be a smart move? Right, switch every screen. I don't care if I get mismatches but I don't want to be destroyed by Curry shooting wide open threes. What happens in this game? In 40 minutes of gameplay, I only saw my AI defenders switching on off-ball screens for a total of 2 times! Great job.

can't help w/ the other, sounds like bad game play, but with this one, unless your team has some stringent 'sim' rules... and I'm an on-ball advocate, mind you, it's just when someone is doing a play that you KNOW WHERE IT'S GOING, you have the right to put a guy there.



That's the thing about 2k plays is they are going go take the same route. Put someone at the end of the route manually. If you can get Curry's guy there by starting in front of the screens and make him go the other way around or stay near the paint, do it, if not, try to drag someone else. No reason to stand there on ball and watch this crap happen 30 times in a row, imo.



That's the way I feel about 'on ball', I was an 80+ on ball kid back when they tracked it, but if the play is happening elsewhere, you need to be there, manually.



You might still lose, but my game plan has always been stop what people want to do/do best first... then assume you win the improv game.


-Smak

[lemarflacco]

Re: Defense is completely broken

I... don't disagree with this.

I like 2K21, I'm getting enjoyment from it. I had fun with it on current gen, and I am liking it even more on next gen.

But it is frustrating when shots require a green to go in, leaving me shooting < 25% from anything that isn't a driving dunk / layup / free throw, and when the defensive AI is so bad that even on Hall Of Fame, virtually any guard can blow by the defense to the rim off nothing but a screen, and if the defense does collapse, it sets up for an easy lob.

Is there a level of fun to be had with a game full of driving dunks and alley oops? Hell yes! My Orlando Magic are like Lob City 2.0 with Fultz / Anthony / Bamba / Gordon and it's fun as hell.

But its not even a little bit sim.

So I mean, idk. It is what it is I guess. Nothing beats what I felt was the peak of NBA2K for me, NBA2K9 - NBA2K12 or so. I had a ton of good memories from those years... maybe because my Orlando Magic were good lol. But while the game is fun, it's probably the least sim that its ever been since I've been playing

I have a serious issue with the space they give your shooters when you simply dribble the ball up.

Czar kind of touched on your issue. The problem is that you can see the entire defense. Youre playing in go mode . So if they helped off the guy in the corner to stop the lob, youd be able to see that and just throw to the open shooter in the corner everytime. Have you tried to just not throw the lob? Or i was think if i played on like rail cam maybe it would work better because you wouldnt be able to like see every single thing on the court thats happening

[Batistaj15]

Re: Defense is completely broken

DEFENSE IS BROKE AS ****. OFF PLAYERS ALWAYS GET THE ADVANTAGE. AND G*D DAM**** WITH THAT CURRY SLIDE. EVERYBODY USES IT BECAUSE IT IS SO OP. NOT EVEN CURRY HIMSELF.

[tb0622]

Re: Defense is completely broken

Guys I've just about given up playing this game. The defense in PNO games is so broken, I'm just not having fun anymore.

I'm taking a break from 2k.

[jk31]

Re: Defense is completely broken

can't help w/ the other, sounds like bad game play, but with this one, unless your team has some stringent 'sim' rules... and I'm an on-ball advocate, mind you, it's just when someone is doing a play that you KNOW WHERE IT'S GOING, you have the right to put a guy there.



That's the thing about 2k plays is they are going go take the same route. Put someone at the end of the route manually. If you can get Curry's guy there by starting in front of the screens and make him go the other way around or stay near the paint, do it, if not, try to drag someone else. No reason to stand there on ball and watch this crap happen 30 times in a row, imo.



That's the way I feel about 'on ball', I was an 80+ on ball kid back when they tracked it, but if the play is happening elsewhere, you need to be there, manually.



You might still lose, but my game plan has always been stop what people want to do/do best first... then assume you win the improv game.


-Smak

Yeah but when I switch to the guy guarding Curry i will get destoyed in the Ball. Most Times it is a choice of deciding Not IF defense Breaks down or Not but more WHICH AI defender will **** up.

[taildog]

Defense is completely broken



This was in response to my ticket of ICE, Leave Him, and Pre-Rotate not responding. They are trying to play dumb smh. Sent them video and everything.

[alabamarob]

Re: Defense is completely broken

This was in response to my ticket of ICE, Leave Him, and Pre-Rotate not responding. They are trying to play dumb smh. Sent them video and everything.

Haha. That is why I never do tickets.

[jk31]

Re: Defense is completely broken

This was in response to my ticket of ICE, Leave Him, and Pre-Rotate not responding. They are trying to play dumb smh. Sent them video and everything.

nah. this is what protocol wants them to do. they need to Check a Few steps Off of their list before they are allowed to Pass on Bug reports to next Level Support.

just Tell them you did it and it didnt help. Just do everything that they ask you to do until they finally Tell you they forwarded it further.