Its the NBA FINALS: '96 Bulls vs '17 Warriors - Who will win a 7-game series?

[sirdez]

Re: Its the NBA FINALS: '96 Bulls vs '17 Warriors - Who will win a 7-game series?

lol nah if Steph wants a diet of 35 footers most teams would concede that. I don't see GSW setting to many offball screens for Steph at 35 feet

No of course not, but you still have to be aware of his threat out that far.

[AIRJ23]

Re: Its the NBA FINALS: '96 Bulls vs '17 Warriors - Who will win a 7-game series?

What’s Steph’s % at 35+ feet? I’d be surprised if it was even 30%. No intelligent coach would tell their team to guard Steph tightly at 35 feet unless maybe the game was on the line. Otherwise you probably want to give him that shot as it’s better than risking him getting open for a closer 3.



Klay also never played against pre-04 rules. Who knows who he’d be in that era. Klay enjoys an era with spacing and rules designed to allow guys like Klay to exist and thrive. Klay ain’t shooting 41% career 3 pointers in an era where multiple rules didn’t exist to disallow proper closing out space.

As for this “third best player” ratio, using your own logic, Draymond “triple single” friggin Green was the third best player on the 73 win 2016 warriors. I can name a plethora of teams MJ faced with a third best player superior to Draymond. I’d put 98 Chris Mullin as the third best player on the Pacers ahead of Dray. 98 Mullin was a 94% FT shooter and 44% 3 shooter. And at 55 years old he beat prime KD in a game of HORSE. The same guys who try to over hype Dray now try to downplay superior role players MJ faced.

It’s not always about who the best players are down a row. It’s about how well a team works together to utilize their tools.

Klay isn’t even a top 75 player. And when he gets flustered he’s notorious to start chucking up bad shots. He never faced a defender like MJ to frazzle him. This isn’t James harden or kyrie or Jr trying to chase him down.

Go watch game 4 of the 96 playoffs vs Orlando and tell me 96 Jordan isn’t a lock down defender. What he was doing at half court to Penny makes Jrue Holiday look like James Harden on defense.

The 17 warriors would UNDOUBTEDLY be the best perimeter force to face the Bulls. But they’d also be the weakest interior force to face the Bulls. So the Bulls wouldn’t have to worry about a team exploiting their one weakness: No dominent big men. And they have the best tools possible to handle the perimeter.

CORRECTION:

Mullin actually may be the fourth best player on those 98 Pacers. Which means I’d put their fourth best player ahead of the 2016 Warriors third best player.

And if we want to talk about “name a team Jordan faced with a #3 like Klay.”

That argument goes both ways.

Name one team the warriors or LeBron for that matter SWEPT with a duo near the caliber as Shaq and Penny. Not to mention how deep the help on those Magic were (Nick Anderson a borderline star himself, D Scott the best 3 shooter that year, Horace albeit injured for most the series).

Ya’ll and I DAMN WELL KNOW neither the warriors or any LeBron team are SWEEPING Shaq and Penny with a host of shooters around them. Not a chance. Especially if the rockets took them to 7.

[sirdez]

Re: Its the NBA FINALS: '96 Bulls vs '17 Warriors - Who will win a 7-game series?

Man you're getting weirdly worked up about a hypothetical match-up.

[jd@os]

Re: Its the NBA FINALS: '96 Bulls vs '17 Warriors - Who will win a 7-game series?

AIRJ23's just having fun like we're all supposed to be doing. It's just that he (unexpectedly) counters stats with more stats which, and let's be honest, throws some people off.

[bulls96]

Re: Its the NBA FINALS: '96 Bulls vs '17 Warriors - Who will win a 7-game series?

OAKLAND -- After a gut-wrenching loss in Game 2 where they lost a 15-pt lead in the 4th quarter , the Warriors try to regain their mojo in Game 3 to avoid a big 3-0 hole.

Game link: https://youtu.be/-ULaQ9297a4

And it seemed being at home with the home crowd was going to push them over for an easy victory as the Warriors had a dominant 1st half. The Warriors would lead by as much as 17 and go into the 2nd half up by 14, 58-44.

Just as the Warriors seem to be cruising, with a 15pt lead 8 mins, the champion Bulls would go on another of their famous Bulls runs. Led by MJ, causing turnovers, and going on transition, the Bulls would go on a 27-13 run to end the 3rd, narrowing the gap to 1 heading into the 4th, 82-81

Down to the 4th quarter, and we got ourselves a game.

Jordan started the 4th on the bench and the Warriors were able to take advantage. They led by as much as 8 with 6 mins to go. Jordan would come back and everytime they try to make a run, the Warriors seem to have an answer. Draymond Greene was specially effective here, being left wide open by the Bulls defense and delivering timely shots. Lead was still 6 with less than 2 mins to go.

Jordan has not given up yet though. It started with a driving layup with a minute to go to cut it to 4. Curry would miss badly on a 3 on the next possession. JOrdan would get doubled in the next play, finds Rodman underneath who would get fouled. He makes 1 of 2, and cuts the lead to 3. Curry would make another costly blunder on their next play on a foiled pass to McGee. Jordan then would connect on a tough fadeaway over Green with 10 secs left to cut it to 1. Klay Thompson gets fouled and makes both FT's to bring the lead back up to 3.

WIth 10 secs left, the Bulls had the ball. Of course they would give it to MJ, who would get doubled by Green, but leaves Kukoc open. Jordan passes it to Toni last minute and Kukoc shoots it from deep!

Makes it! Toni Kukoc forces OT with a buzzer-beating 3!

In the first OT, the Warriors threw the first punch going up 5 halfway. The Bulls kept it close, with a Kukoc dunk, and a big offensive putback by ROdman. Ron Harper would make a huge 3 with 1:30 left to tie the game. CUrry missed on the drive but on the Bulls next possession, Klay makes a big steal and then throws it off to DUrant in the corner for a 3 in transition. KD makes it!

Warriors up by 3 with 39 secs left in OT. Bulls dont call time. THey get the ball to Michael in the pos who would immediately get doubled. Bulls pass it around, until it finds Jordan in the perimeter again. Longley sets a pick and JOrdan buries a HUGE 3 with 17 secs left to tie the game at 127.

Warriors with one last chance. Ball goes to CUrry who would get isolated vs Rodman on a switch at the top of the key. He drives and finds DUrant open at the corner for 3. HE MISSES IT!

We go to a second OT.

In the second OT, Steph Curry happened, and the Bulls quite simply ran out of steam. Curry was shooting poorly all game, and committed some costly turnovers in regulation. But he made up for it in the 2nd OT, scoring 12 pts and literally outscoring the Bulls by himself.

Warriors stand alone in 2OT, winning 146-134.

Steph finished with 37 pts, 11 assts 2 stls. KD had 33 and Klay had 27. The Big three combined for 97 pts! Javale McGee had an impressive game as well. He had a double double with 15 pts 15 rebs 5 blks.

Jordan finished with another 50-piece, but in a losing effort. 52 pts, 16 rebs 4 assts. SCottie and Kukoc had 27 and 22, respectively.

[bulls96]

Re: Its the NBA FINALS: '96 Bulls vs '17 Warriors - Who will win a 7-game series?

OAKLAND -- After an epic double OT victory in Game 3, the 2017 Golden State Warriors try to sustain that momentum to even their series against Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls. Bulls still came to play, and the game had a familiar ending with a not so unfamiliar HERO.

Watch the exciting game here: https://youtu.be/RshzbUpIxNY

The Bulls was up early 15-9 behind a strong start from Pippen who had 7 early pts. Steph Curry would find his shot later in the period to help the Warriors narrow the gap. Jordan finished strong, scoring 14 int the 1st , nd kept the WArriors at bay. Lead is 2 27-25 after one.

In the second quarter, Klay Thomson got hot quick. A 3-pointer early gave the, Warriors the lead and he followed with 2 more, forcing an early timeout from the Bulls. Kukoc provided the extra lift for the Bulls as they narrow the gap to 2 heading into the half.

In the 3rd quarter, the Warriors offense got going and Klay Thomspon got hot. Jordan tried to keep the Bulls in it but got outscored by Klay in this period, 13 to 10 and the Warriors go up by as much as 9. Their lead was 7 until a last second 3-pointer by Kerr cut the deficit to 4 going into the 4th.

In the 4th quarter, it appeared Kevin Durant was gonna bring this one home for the Warriors, scoring 14 pts in the period and giving the Warriorsa 9 pt lead with over 6 mins to go. Jordan, however was not about to give up just yet. Coming back from his usual rest, Jordan sparked a 12-2 run as the Bulls would roar back, claiming the lead with an unlikely 3-pointer from Ron Harper who was left wide open in the corner after the Dubs doubled Jordan.

Game was far from over.

It was back and forth towards the end, and Durant would come up big, scoring 2 late baskets including one that tied the game at 101 with 23 secs left.

23 secs for Jordan and the Bulls to come up with a win.

Jordan had another double-double, 36 pts 11 assts, while Pippen was solid all-around with 22 pts, 6 rebs 5 assts. Dennis Rodman continues to be a big factor, has a 13 pts 15 rebs.

Klay THompson and Kevin Durant led the Warriors with 28 pts a piece. Steph Curry, the hero of Game 3, shot 8/22 from the field for 18 pts.

[jeebs9]

Re: Its the NBA FINALS: '96 Bulls vs '17 Warriors - Who will win a 7-game series?

Kerr with the nasty buzzer beater

Screenshot_20231007-150754.jpg

[jd@os]

Re: Its the NBA FINALS: '96 Bulls vs '17 Warriors - Who will win a 7-game series?

Who is the primary defender on KD? Pippen? Rodman? Not too many players have the offensive repertoire as Durant (just my opinion).

He's one of my favorite players to watch "detonate" when hot. I can't imagine how difficult it would be to stop Jordan and/or Durant because I don't think they would be negatively affected mentally or physically. I don't think talking would get in either of their heads; they would probably be even more motivated by it.

[AIRJ23]

Re: Its the NBA FINALS: '96 Bulls vs '17 Warriors - Who will win a 7-game series?

Who is the primary defender on KD? Pippen? Rodman? Not too many players have the offensive repertoire as Durant (just my opinion).

He's one of my favorite players to watch "detonate" when hot. I can't imagine how difficult it would be to stop Jordan and/or Durant because I don't think they would be negatively affected mentally or physically. I don't think talking would get in either of their heads; they would probably be even more motivated by it.

I’d put Rodman on KD and Pip on Steph. Don’t want MJ expelling too much energy on defense chasing Steph around but if needed he can also switch onto Steph since his reflexes and lateral quickness are second to none. Pip would smother Steph more than any defender Steph ever faced, which is more than safe to say.

Rodman imo would be KD kryptonite. Cause not only is Dennis an extremely skilled and extremely physical defender, but his head games would drive KD nuts imo. Rodman often sacrificed foul trouble, his body, and flagrants and techs just to throw opponents off. He’s like what Draymond thinks he is but doesn’t hold a candle to.

Here’s a good vid of Kobe analyzing the kind of defense Scottie played. It also debunks the “no zones were played back then” fallacy as in the second clip, Scottie is covering like 5 zones, heavily zoning the wings. Phil had his players covering zones nonstop. Most were quick enough to shift from zones to man to man in instants. NOBODY in the nba in the warriors era plays defense like this. NOBBBBODY. Not even close. Kawhi comes closest and even he pales (and we know what Kawhi did to an albeit battered warriors) or will injure something trying. Just like Bulls never faced perimeter threats like the warriors, the warriors never faced defensive threats like the Bulls.

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[jd@os]

Re: Its the NBA FINALS: '96 Bulls vs '17 Warriors - Who will win a 7-game series?

I’d put Rodman on KD and Pip on Steph. Don’t want MJ expelling too much energy on defense chasing Steph around but if needed he can also switch onto Steph since his reflexes and lateral quickness are second to none. Pip would smother Steph more than any defender Steph ever faced, which is more than safe to say.

Rodman imo would be KD kryptonite. Cause not only is Dennis an extremely skilled and extremely physical defender, but his head games would drive KD nuts imo. Rodman often sacrificed foul trouble, his body, and flagrants and techs just to throw opponents off. He’s like what Draymond thinks he is but doesn’t hold a candle to.

Here’s a good vid of Kobe analyzing the kind of defense Scottie played. It also debunks the “no zones were played back then” fallacy as in the second clip, Scottie is covering like 5 zones, heavily zoning the wings. Phil had his players covering zones nonstop. Most were quick enough to shift from zones to man to man in instants. NOBODY in the nba in the warriors era plays defense like this. NOBBBBODY. Not even close. Kawhi comes closest and even he pales (and we know what Kawhi did to an albeit battered warriors) or will injure something trying. Just like Bulls never faced perimeter threats like the warriors, the warriors never faced defensive threats like the Bulls.

1) Thank you for the "no zones were played back then" comment. George Karl was a coach who went to a zone from time to time (maybe influenced by his mentor Dean Smith). You could get away with it as long as it wasn't obvious (2 obvious situations come to mind).
1a) I know you get under a lot of people's skin because you know your stuff. Already seen it happen.

2) Didn't think about Pip on Steph. Interesting. I find it funny that people think Phil Jackson solely had Pippen guard Magic Johnson after Game 2 of the 1991 NBA Finals. Actually, it was a simple switch that the Bulls and Johnny Bach were accustomed to doing. You can tell some people didn't really watch that series because who starts on Magic the very next game (3)? Jordan. It was a defensive assignment switch--not a permanent change.

3) Rodman may be the guy who could get in KD's head but I don't think too many others could (I guess that could be a "composure" thing in a video game). I think KD would like the trash talk. Rodman's crazy leverage could get KD off of his spots (he did guard some centers), but KD's crazy length could shoot over perfect shot contesting. That would be a fun matchup.

4) I remember watching that video when it came out--much like the Peyton Manning videos.

5) I hope people read your last sentence. We've been giving both teams their due props but some people ignore that fact.

[bulls96]

Re: Its the NBA FINALS: '96 Bulls vs '17 Warriors - Who will win a 7-game series?

I’d put Rodman on KD and Pip on Steph. Don’t want MJ expelling too much energy on defense chasing Steph around but if needed he can also switch onto Steph since his reflexes and lateral quickness are second to none. Pip would smother Steph more than any defender Steph ever faced, which is more than safe to say.

Rodman imo would be KD kryptonite. Cause not only is Dennis an extremely skilled and extremely physical defender, but his head games would drive KD nuts imo. Rodman often sacrificed foul trouble, his body, and flagrants and techs just to throw opponents off. He’s like what Draymond thinks he is but doesn’t hold a candle to.

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All I can tell you is what I have experienced in playing the Bulls against these Warriors.

I definitely use Rodman on KD from time to time, specially if Pippen is on the bench. He does a decent job on him defensively. One thing that some may inderestimate the mind games that Rodman can play on opposing players. Especially with KD who is the thinnest skinned superstar of all time, Rodman can get into him easily, and that more than anything can affect his performance.

I have placed Pippen on Steph on certain critical possessions but not all the time. It was a critical move in Game 1. Here's a short i did on this..

https://youtube.com/shorts/-FsWWcUmbOM

also, '96 JOrdan was pretty energetic. People forget he guarded the opposing PG's most of the time in the 96 season, so i think he can handle guarding Steph.

[tru11]

Re: Its the NBA FINALS: '96 Bulls vs '17 Warriors - Who will win a 7-game series?

Id put rodman on durant with him simply try denying the ball.

Durant would struggle matching rodman intensity and endurance tbh.

He would have to use alot of energy to get open and then so more just to get a shot.

Could would for 3 quarters but not an entire game.

Pippen on Curry.
Best perimeter defender curry ever faced with alot more size.
Getting shots off would be draining to last a full game.
Especially if picked up at full court.

Put Harper on Klay.
Enough size and perimeter defense with harper basically only have to focus on guarding the entire game.

Put Jordan on Green and give him the ability to free lance and roam the court.
Its when he is at its best and most effective.

5th match up is a toss depending on who is in the game.
Kukoc could pretty much handle any other match up I suppose and could switch with jordan onto green if warriors go extra small.


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[HeatLifer]

Re: Its the NBA FINALS: '96 Bulls vs '17 Warriors - Who will win a 7-game series?

I love these threads because they bring the basketball fan out in all of us, this is what video games are for. Imagination and era appreciation, reliving memories and experiences.

Honestly, and I don't mean this as an insult to anyone, but if you're more obsessed with basketball than just 1 basketball player you'll know a lot teams could/would beat the '96 Bulls. Recency bias has nothing to do with realistically any of these historically great teams taking the Bulls to task, and it certainly doesn't make anyone just a "Warriors stan" if they think so (only addressing it because it's been said), and I think it makes you incredibly more disrespectful and dismissive of other historically great teams if you're that firm on it because you're really missing out on some great matchups:

'71 Bucks, '72 Lakers, '83 76ers, '86 Celtics, '87 Lakers, '01 Lakers, '08 Celtics, '12 Thunder, '13 Heat, '14 Spurs, '16 Cavs (you know, the team that actually already DID beat the 73 win Warriors and win the championship, yeah the Bulls would have to hypothetically beat them FIRST and I don't see that happening either lol), 16 Warriors, and the '17 Warriors. Any of these great teams could take it to or take down the Bulls depending on who's era we're actually using.

Because on a given day - sometimes I think I'd take the '92 Bulls over the '96 Bulls in a 7 game series... I think I might like the depth better and '92 MJ was at the absolute apex of his powers, an assassin at his peak athleticism and consumed with tasting more gold - '96 MJ embraced the whole team concept much better but in my heart of hearts I bet '92 MJ > '96 MJ in a 1v1... really fun to think about these excellent teams matching up across all era's (and maybe that's just because I wore MJs 92 jersey to high school that year lmao who knows).

And that's the great what-if that 2K gives us. 96Bulls I like following these threads of yours and I hope you do more, I'm really excited for maybe a 7 Seconds or Less Suns team vs the 90s Bulls as a tune-up to what would come. I think the ball movement and 4-Out 1-In vs the Bulls Defensive 4 headed Cerberus would be basketball royalty.

But era's are always interesting and bring SO MANY wrinkles, especially when considering the rule changes because basketball fans tend to forget what they're actually changing and remembering just the parts they want, and they're definitely forgetting or purposefully leaving out a lot lol:
1996 rules you're moving the 3pt line a foot and a half closer to the rim... I'm taking Warriors or Cavs under that rule no hesitation (and '17 with KD even??). Be like anyone going against Shaq in the Finals and before the series starts the NBA just nonchalantly drops the rim a foot and a half closer to the ground. Good luck with that lol.
Or 2016 rules you're making the '96 Bulls shoot from further away than they were able to achieve their record from amd the same line the Warriors burned the history books with. Disadvantage Bulls.
Not to mention 1995 illegalizing handchecking so that's a moot point (we already saw an uptick in handchecking fouls in the '93 playoffs and the '94 Finals with the broadcasting team telling everyone watching to expect more of these calls because it'll be illegal "NEXT year" as if they literally haven't been calling them fouls a few years already lol). Now the '83 76ers might have an advantage if they get a shorter 3pt line and can't be handchecked under '96 rules. Let alone flagrant fouls and ejections weren't illegal until 1990-91 so that bodes well for the '70s teams going against '96 teams if they get to go to the '90s and not get murdered, but it also helps the '96 Bulls if they get to go back to the '70s and get to legally throat kick everyone lmao (but '70s rules that's a '98 push-off offensive foul - they didn't give a s*** about superstars back then, we thought it could've been a foul in the '90s, and that's because it's definitely a foul in the '70s referee book lol BUT they didn't rob us of the all time great shot, and that would've been WORSE lol).

And who's playoff structure are we using? Just like bringing a team from the '70s to the '80s... there was only 3 rounds TOTAL in the playoffs in the '70s... so that probably really helps the '80s teams from a fatigue standpoint going back in time and a disadvantage for the '70s teams to have to play a whole extra round before the Finals under '80s rules. The '90s had a 5 game series in the 1st round, using those rules saves the Warriors legs a bit, and wears the Bulls out a tad more depending on what era you use. But the '90s Bulls only having to play 3 ROUNDS to win a title in the '70s... advantage Bulls massive disadvantage '70s teams with either the Bulls coming to their time or even them going to the '90s. Yeesh.

A lot of things to consider about all of the great teams throughout time, speaking about records not reflecting how good or great a team might have actually been is a dangerous road. The '96 Bulls went 72-10... in the middle of an expansion era under a fresh handchecking rule and a shorter 3pt line on top of it - and those 4 HOF with Phil Jackson got taken to 6 games by just 1 HoF in Gary Payton. So we can do this against the KD Warriors and their trouble against the Rockets but the Bulls aren't exempt either, not by a long shot.

I don't like dismissing teams because of era but it's all anyone does today now to discredit today's era. So sure, you can dismiss 73-9 but it's still incredible that ever happened almost a decade after the latest expansion team.

To put it in historic context, the Top 6 most winningest seasons ever... only 1 didn't come from the expansion era's - the 2016 Warriors. The other Top 5 are from the '66-'74 expansion and the '88-'98 expansion.

The league expanded from 1966-1974 went from 12 teams to 17 teams... (5 teams added to the league) what happened? '70, '71, '72 saw an all new historic 18 game win streak, 20 game win streak, and 33 game win streak. We also saw teams set the new highest marks for single season wins in history:
1967 76ers win the most ever wins in history til that date and what is still today tied for the 5th highest ever of 68 wins.
'71 Bucks won an all time 66 wins (2nd highest ever at the time, moved down to only 14th now - 7th if you just go by wins).
'72 Lakers won what is still the 3rd highest wins of all time.
'73 Celtics won what is still the 6th highest wins of all time (also noteworthy is it coincided with also having the worst team in basketball history, the 9 win 73 loss 76ers - I chalk this up to coincidence because of all the Top 10 worst teams ever, this is the ONLY team that lands on the same season as one of the highest winning years for another team... BUT... the expansion obviously already did it's damage and ALSO having the worst team ever included in that season as a non-expansion team definitely yields a high win total for someone else lol).

Sadly not a coincidence, as basketball history will show it again in the 90s.

Expansion from 88-98 we re-up and added 5 more teams in another small window, and the 90s expansion now fills up all the record win tally just like before.

89 Pistons won 63 wins (good for 8th all time at that time)
90 Lakers won 63 wins (repeat last line)
91 Trailblazers 63 wins (repeat again)
92 Bulls (tied for 3rd best ever at that time)
96 Supersonics won 64 (tied for 7th ever at the time)
96 Bulls win 18 straight matching a historic high and also happen to win the most wins ever at the time (2nd now)
96 Spurs also win 17 straight.
97 Jazz won 64.

For further context - the 15 greatest NBA regular season win totals of all time by this occurrence (before 2000, so at their respective occurence) were occupied by 9 teams of just the TWO expansion era's I just named (and a few more are from other smaller expansion years but I digress we're only talking about the 2 major ones...). Add on to that the Top 5 longest winning streaks ever recorded (prior to 2000 so in their respective time).... are ALL of those 2 DIRECT expansion era's I named.

It's not coincidence, it's what happens and is historically proven time and time again.

And this is all without acknowledging you actually can't bring a team like the 86 Celtics or 87 Lakers at their cap figure of roster allocation in that day into even the 2010 era because the salary cap and luxury tax rules of 2009, they'd be at 80-90 million in cap and still have to sign 3-6 more players to fill out a 15 man team lol so you're dropping someone from the nucleus of these great teams just to make it happen realistically financially, and that's what makes it always fun to jump through the yellow tape and see how it could all hypothetically work lol.

Thanks for the thread, always a pleasure talking roundball with everyone. I hope I didn't rub anyone the wrong way, but it's really important to give proper era's their proper respect AND proper asterisks IF we're going to start dogging one to prop another. Because we shouldn't have to, but it always ends up that way because we're passionate fans lol all love family catch you on the offline court 🤣

[AIRJ23]

Re: Its the NBA FINALS: '96 Bulls vs '17 Warriors - Who will win a 7-game series?

1) Thank you for the "no zones were played back then" comment. George Karl was a coach who went to a zone from time to time (maybe influenced by his mentor Dean Smith). You could get away with it as long as it wasn't obvious (2 obvious situations come to mind).
1a) I know you get under a lot of people's skin because you know your stuff. Already seen it happen.

2) Didn't think about Pip on Steph. Interesting. I find it funny that people think Phil Jackson solely had Pippen guard Magic Johnson after Game 2 of the 1991 NBA Finals. Actually, it was a simple switch that the Bulls and Johnny Bach were accustomed to doing. You can tell some people didn't really watch that series because who starts on Magic the very next game (3)? Jordan. It was a defensive assignment switch--not a permanent change.

3) Rodman may be the guy who could get in KD's head but I don't think too many others could (I guess that could be a "composure" thing in a video game). I think KD would like the trash talk. Rodman's crazy leverage could get KD off of his spots (he did guard some centers), but KD's crazy length could shoot over perfect shot contesting. That would be a fun matchup.

4) I remember watching that video when it came out--much like the Peyton Manning videos.

5) I hope people read your last sentence. We've been giving both teams their due props but some people ignore that fact.

You know your stuff. I have countless pics and vids of major zones being played in the 90’s against and by the Bulls. It’s not hard to find as you’ll see it constantly while watching games. George Karl and Jerry Sloan publicly defending their zones by blaming the other person for running zones. Old school nba players will (and do) ALL laugh at the notion of “no zones” and say they played zones. There are literal clips of Jordan in 98 after games saying how he found better shots because his opponents went into zones. I was playing zones in elementary school ffs. But new heads want to act like zones are some new wizardry (that coincidentally reside in an era of historic high scoring). 40 year old no knees Mike dropped 96 points in back to back games on zones AND hand checks.

And precisely about Jordan guarding Magic. It’s a common “LeBron side goat debate” media trope (like the “no zones” bs) that know nothing snake oil salesman’s like Nick Wrong peddle. You can LITERALLY watch Scottie Pippen during the championship celebration after the game saying “WE WON BECAUSE MIKE WAS PUT BACK ON MAGIC AND GUARDED HIM.” Anyone can look it up. But guys like Shannon Sharpe will say otherwise or say “Magic was old when Jordan beat him” meanwhile Magic was only 31 and Duncan, Ginobli, Parker, Kidd, KG, Pierce, Allen, Dirk etc etc were pushing 40 when they beat LeBron.

But that’s another topic lol.

Id put rodman on durant with him simply try denying the ball.

Durant would struggle matching rodman intensity and endurance tbh.

He would have to use alot of energy to get open and then so more just to get a shot.

Could would for 3 quarters but not an entire game.

Pippen on Curry.
Best perimeter defender curry ever faced with alot more size.
Getting shots off would be draining to last a full game.
Especially if picked up at full court.

Put Harper on Klay.
Enough size and perimeter defense with harper basically only have to focus on guarding the entire game.

Put Jordan on Green and give him the ability to free lance and roam the court.
Its when he is at its best and most effective.

5th match up is a toss depending on who is in the game.
Kukoc could pretty much handle any other match up I suppose and could switch with jordan onto green if warriors go extra small.


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Ooh I love the idea of MJ on Green. Wow. They’re the same height too. You can even switch Pip on Dray and put Mike on Steph. Pippen is like a super version of Dray. Putting MJ on Dray would allow him a small guy to exploit his strength and low post prowess. Tim Grover who trained Jordan, Kobe and LeBron is quoted as saying MJ’s strength isn’t properly recognized for his superhuman it was. He said MJ was so strong he would be able back down LeBron. Billy Walton is also quoted as saying MJ isn’t realized for how good of a rebounder he was. I believe I said something like “Jordan never had to be a rebounder but if I need someone under the rim to grab a missed free throw to save my life, I’d pick Michael Jordan.” I can’t remember where I saw said quote now but I certainly remember reading it.

Which is another example as to how those Warriors would get OBLITERATED. OBLITERATED! on the boards and down low.

THEIR BEST REBOUNDER WAS DRAYMOND GREEN! Rodman snatched 30 rebounds against teams with MULTIPLE elite 7+ footers banging the paint. He’d grab 50 against Draymond. Hell I think Jordan or Pippen could outrebound Draymond if he’s their assignment. The 2017 warriors had zero double digit rebounders.

In other words. If the warriors aren’t shooting at least 60% from the field and hitting 40+% of their threes, they’re getting absolutely cooked.

[AIRJ23]

Re: Its the NBA FINALS: '96 Bulls vs '17 Warriors - Who will win a 7-game series?

I love these threads because they bring the basketball fan out in all of us, this is what video games are for. Imagination and era appreciation, reliving memories and experiences.

Honestly, and I don't mean this as an insult to anyone, but if you're more obsessed with basketball than just 1 basketball player you'll know a lot teams could/would beat the '96 Bulls. Recency bias has nothing to do with realistically any of these historically great teams taking the Bulls to task, and it certainly doesn't make anyone just a "Warriors stan" if they think so (only addressing it because it's been said), and I think it makes you incredibly more disrespectful and dismissive of other historically great teams if you're that firm on it because you're really missing out on some great matchups:

'71 Bucks, '72 Lakers, '83 76ers, '86 Celtics, '87 Lakers, '01 Lakers, '08 Celtics, '12 Thunder, '13 Heat, '14 Spurs, '16 Cavs (you know, the team that actually already DID beat the 73 win Warriors and win the championship, yeah the Bulls would have to hypothetically beat them FIRST and I don't see that happening either lol), 16 Warriors, and the '17 Warriors. Any of these great teams could take it to or take down the Bulls depending on who's era we're actually using.

Because on a given day - sometimes I think I'd take the '92 Bulls over the '96 Bulls in a 7 game series... I think I might like the depth better and '92 MJ was at the absolute apex of his powers, an assassin at his peak athleticism and consumed with tasting more gold - '96 MJ embraced the whole team concept much better but in my heart of hearts I bet '92 MJ > '96 MJ in a 1v1... really fun to think about these excellent teams matching up across all era's (and maybe that's just because I wore MJs 92 jersey to high school that year lmao who knows).

And that's the great what-if that 2K gives us. 96Bulls I like following these threads of yours and I hope you do more, I'm really excited for maybe a 7 Seconds or Less Suns team vs the 90s Bulls as a tune-up to what would come. I think the ball movement and 4-Out 1-In vs the Bulls Defensive 4 headed Cerberus would be basketball royalty.

But era's are always interesting and bring SO MANY wrinkles, especially when considering the rule changes because basketball fans tend to forget what they're actually changing and remembering just the parts they want, and they're definitely forgetting or purposefully leaving out a lot lol:
1996 rules you're moving the 3pt line a foot and a half closer to the rim... I'm taking Warriors or Cavs under that rule no hesitation (and '17 with KD even??). Be like anyone going against Shaq in the Finals and before the series starts the NBA just nonchalantly drops the rim a foot and a half closer to the ground. Good luck with that lol.
Or 2016 rules you're making the '96 Bulls shoot from further away than they were able to achieve their record from amd the same line the Warriors burned the history books with. Disadvantage Bulls.
Not to mention 1995 illegalizing handchecking so that's a moot point (we already saw an uptick in handchecking fouls in the '93 playoffs and the '94 Finals with the broadcasting team telling everyone watching to expect more of these calls because it'll be illegal "NEXT year" as if they literally haven't been calling them fouls a few years already lol). Now the '83 76ers might have an advantage if they get a shorter 3pt line and can't be handchecked under '96 rules. Let alone flagrant fouls and ejections weren't illegal until 1990-91 so that bodes well for the '70s teams going against '96 teams if they get to go to the '90s and not get murdered, but it also helps the '96 Bulls if they get to go back to the '70s and get to legally throat kick everyone lmao (but '70s rules that's a '98 push-off offensive foul - they didn't give a s*** about superstars back then, we thought it could've been a foul in the '90s, and that's because it's definitely a foul in the '70s referee book lol BUT they didn't rob us of the all time great shot, and that would've been WORSE lol).

And who's playoff structure are we using? Just like bringing a team from the '70s to the '80s... there was only 3 rounds TOTAL in the playoffs in the '70s... so that probably really helps the '80s teams from a fatigue standpoint going back in time and a disadvantage for the '70s teams to have to play a whole extra round before the Finals under '80s rules. The '90s had a 5 game series in the 1st round, using those rules saves the Warriors legs a bit, and wears the Bulls out a tad more depending on what era you use. But the '90s Bulls only having to play 3 ROUNDS to win a title in the '70s... advantage Bulls massive disadvantage '70s teams with either the Bulls coming to their time or even them going to the '90s. Yeesh.

A lot of things to consider about all of the great teams throughout time, speaking about records not reflecting

Some good analysis and data there.

But the expansion argument I think is a moot point because expansion affected all teams equally. I.e the Bulls would be even deeper without expansion. And many expansion teams became immediate contenders (Magic went to finals) because the league had plenty of star depth. And if expansion dilutes the league than there are the most teams ever now, so if the Celtics could win in such a compact league with less dilution, imagine what they’d do now, etc.

Here’s lebron quoting how expansion affected his era in 2011:

“How can it be bad for basketball when you have guys who want to win playing on the same team?" he said. "Hopefully, the league can figure out one way where it can go back to the ’80s where you had three or four all-stars, three or four superstars, three or four Hall of Famers on the same team. The league was great. It wasn’t as watered down as it is. "Imagine if you could take Kevin Love off Minnesota and add him to another team and you shrink the (league). Looking at some of the teams that aren’t that great, you take Brook Lopez or you take Devin Harris off these teams that aren’t that good right now and you add him to a team that could be really good.“

And I think your point about the 2016 Cavs is an example as to how easily the Bulls WOULD beat the 2016 warriors.

Look at the perimeter defenders on the Cavs. Who’s guarding Jordan? Kyrie who’s notoriously one of the worst defenders to play the game? JR Smith? LeBron? If they put Bron on him then Bron isn’t able to play down low where he’s more effective. Also it’d wear Bron out and Bron avoids guarding the others team’s best player for that reason.

Rodman guarding LeBron would be a hell LeBron never had to face. Rodman’s physicality would go way past Jokic whiffing air at Bron and Bron going flying into the stands into someone’s drink like last year’s playoffs. Even Pippen on Bron would be a nightmare as Kawhi was in 2014 (and I’d put Pippen over Kawhi as a defender anyday if I had to choose).

I just can’t see anyway in hell that the 90’s Bulls (any Jordan active 90’s Bulls) don’t roll over those Cavs.