Superstars are too OP in 2K25

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Superstars are too OP in 2K25

Lots of misinformation in the topic, take a lot with a grain of salt. A few principles to get out of the way:

1. ACE and Playbooks affect the gameplay and in many ways override tendencies.

2. Tendencies are just gameplay modifiers; you cannot meaningfully alter the core of the game.

You are correct. Play discipline at around 40 and put their to touches equal or even give KAT the slight edge since guards have the ball in their hands by default. Would also drop ANTs drive tendency as well. I get what they are going for with the 99 but that just boxes the AI into spamming the rim in my experience

Because Ant does drive basically every time he has the ball IRL, but he also passes it out when he gets too crowded.

Just to add to this (and it’s a very small sample size of 1 quarter plus), but after Anthony Edwards torched Christian Braun and refused to pass (he had almost 30 in one half playing on 6 min quarters), I played the T’Wolves again, but this time, I was OKC. Alex Caruso is one of the elite defenders and I saw Anthony Edwards force less shots in that game. I’m guessing because Edwards Iso vs Poor Defender is set to 90 and his Iso vs Average Defender is 45, he was on the attack against Denver while playing more of a team game against OKC.

Anthony Edwards 2024 (2,770 minutes / 79 games)
15.0 Drives/36 (1,155 Drives - 7th in NBA)
7.5 Pick & Roll Poss/36 (572 P&R Poss)
4.6 Isolation Poss/36 (352 Iso Poss)
0.9 Post Poss/36 (68 Post Poss)
13.0 Total On-Ball Poss/36

Minnesota Pace (Poss): 97.1 (Edwards On-Balls alone are 13% of that)

Note that "Possessions" are defined as ending in a FGA/FTA/TO. They are not including passes to shooters / roll men / etc. Edwards' On-Balls are legit using 20% of MIN's total possessions)

These players are for the most part programmed correctly (fun fact, I designed the formula for Iso vs X a few years ago). The problem is Stauffer and the Ratings team are lazy/inept and don't update defensive ratings for anything beyond the top players. This creates huge gameplay issues.

Perimeter Defense (Average Starter)
PG: 76
SG: 74
SF: 78
PF: 74
C: 59

^Most bench players fall off a ****ing cliff though.

Cavaliers
PG: Garland (69), Jerome (66), Porter (68)
SG: Mitchell (75), LeVert (74), Merrill (60)
SF: Strus (57), Okoro (84), Tyson (67), Bates (53)
PF: Mobley (82), Niang (55), Wade (67), Thor (63)
C: Allen (72), Thompson (54)

Celtics
PG: Jrue (95), Pritchard (60), Springer (75), Davison (56)
SG: White (93), Walker (74), Scheierman (56)
SF: Brown (89), Hauser (55), Peterson (43)
PF: Tatum (87), Horford (68), Walsh (75), Watson (60)
C: Porzingis (56), Kornet (32), Tillman (66), Queta (45)

Clippers
PG: Harden (70), Porter (69), Hyland (66)
SG: Mann (66), Powell (79), Dunn (83), Christie (62)
SF: Jones (79), Coffey (64), Miller (65)
PF: Kawhi (90), Tucker (80), Batum (73), Brown (62)
C: Zubac (34), Bamba (48), Jones (47)

Grizzlies
PG: Morant (72), Smart (91), Rose (67), Pippen (62)
SG: Bane (80), Kennard (51), Konchar (62), Spencer (59)
SF: Williams (80), Jackson (58), Wells (60)
PF: Aldama (63), LaRavia (43)
C: Jackson (80), Clarke (75), Edey (37), Huff (32)

Lakers
PG: Russell (65), Vincent (60), Hood-Schifino (74)
SG: Reaves (73), Goodwin (71), Reddish (79), Christie (63), Bronny (72)
SF: Rui (54), Knecht (59), Lewis (68)
PF: LeBron (79), Vando (83)
C: AD (80), Wood (60), Hayes (48), Castleton (32)

What the game classifies as "Average" (much less Good/Elite) is not how things are being scaled by the ratings team. Fixing that is going to have a higher impact than re-scaling swathes of tendencies.

[res2]

Re: Superstars are too OP in 2K25

So much misinformation in here I don't really know where to start



1. ACE and Playbooks affect the gameplay and in many ways override tendencies.



2. Tendencies are just gameplay modifiers; you cannot meaningfully alter the core of the game.



The problem is Stauffer and the Ratings team are lazy/inept and don't update defensive ratings for anything beyond the top players. This creates huge gameplay issues.



Perimeter Defense (Average Starter)

PG: 76

SG: 74

SF: 78

PF: 74

C: 59



Most bench players fall off a cliff.

What the game classifies as "Average" (much less Good/Elite) is not how things are being scaled by the ratings team.

Am I understanding that way too many players have PD way too low, causing the engine to decide to iso way more than is appropriate?

If so, does updating roster attributes for criminally under rated (literally in this case) players help to address this?

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Superstars are too OP in 2K25

Am I understanding that way too many players have PD way too low, causing the engine to decide to iso way more than is appropriate?

If so, does updating roster attributes for criminally under rated (literally in this case) players help to address this?

Yes.

Ratings, Badges, and Tendencies all work in concert with each other.

There is a roster editor who prominently espouses that badges hurt the gameplay, but all Badges are controlling are factors that used to be baked into the Attributes.

In this instance, removing On-Ball Menace (and other defensive badges) is something that would negatively impact the gameplay.

Similar to the Perimeter Defense attribute, 2K does a poor job of tiering this.

On-Ball Menace
HOF (1): Jrue Holiday
GOLD (15): Giannis Antetokounmpo, Derrick White, Marcus Smart, Jimmy Butler, OG Anunoby, Jalen Suggs, Klay Thompson, Herb Jones, Jose Alvarado, Davion Mitchell, Dillon Brooks, Alex Caruso, Lu Dort, Jaden McDaniels, Matisse Thybulle
SILVER (9): Paul George, Isaac Okoro, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, Kawhi Leonard, Mikal Bridges, Josh Hart, Andrew Wiggins, De'Anthony Melton
BRONZE (29): Kyle Lowry, Khris Middleton, Delon Wright, Lonzo Ball, Derrick Jones Jr, P.J. Tucker, DeAndre Hunter, Bam Adebayo, De'Aaron Fox, Keon Ellis, Donte DiVincenzo, Miles McBride, Jarred Vanderbilt, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Jonathan Isaac, Quentin Grimes, Dorian Finney-Smith, Ben Simmons, Aaron Gordon, Pascal Siakam, DeJounte Murray, Ausar Thompson, Scottie Barnes, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Anthony Edwards, Nickeil Alexander-Walker, Deni Avdija, Draymond Green, Gary Payton

Most of these are reputation-based, and many are tiered as if the year is 2021 rather than 2025.

Only 9 Silvers vs 15 Golds is an example of how poorly 2K understands tiering. This is actually common for most of their badges. They have an all-or-nothing philosophy and don't have a good grasp of the in-between.

There would be a benefit from leaning harder into the Badge, rather than eliminating it entirely.

Team Breakdown
5: Knicks
4: Celtics, Warriors
3: Bucks, Clippers, Magic, Pelicans, Thunder, Wolves
2: Sixers, Heat, Kings, Mavs, Nets, Raptors, Blazers
1: Bulls, Cavs, Grizzlies, Hawks, Lakers, Nuggets, Pacers, Pistons, Rockets
0: Hornets, Jazz, Spurs, Suns, Wizards

The top 3 teams account for 13 badges
The bottom 14 teams account for 9 badges.

It's a game-wide problem because they don't show the same level of attention to each team.

The 2K team also shows significantly more attention to OFFENSIVE badges, which is WHY the badges feel "unbalanced" and that they might be hurting the gameplay.

When they're giving 122 players "Deadeye" versus only 54 players "On-Ball Menace", 62 Challenger, etc, then it's no wonder badges are gonna feel bad.

(Badges have been a major focus of my roster work over the last 4 years)

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Superstars are too OP in 2K25

Not getting around to tracking this yet but a contributing reason for Superstars being too OP?

All the Stars have GOLD Strong Handle and GOLD Physical Finisher. I'm serious when I say all of them. Forget players like Zion, guards like Steph Curry have Gold. This wasn't the case in 2K24. If players feel like they're unstoppable, it's because they literally might be.

Haven't tracked this yet either but have yet to see a Mini Marksman badge that wasn't Gold (besides Curry who is HOF). Cam Payne has a Gold which probably means Gold is everyone's floor.

2K re-did the Badges and they're throwing Golds around like Candy.