Why can't higher difficulty equal more intelligent play?

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Why can't higher difficulty equal more intelligent play?

I will concede you have a valid point, but I don't think it's unrealistic to expect on higher difficulty the AI would run more complex plays, or pick up on real strategies used in the NBA

You're talking about artificially dumbing down other difficulties, rather than making the harder ones "Smarter".

NBA teams run very complex plays/actions. 2K scouts those and adds them to the playbooks. The AI runs those actions at all difficulties. The efficacy is what shifts as the difficulty goes up, just as it does in most every other game.

I am just personally tired of having to "out-offense" the AI due to them having insane buffs going up to Superstar from All-Star.

Nightmare mode isn't for every gamer.

[Pistol44PeteMaravich]

Re: Why can't higher difficulty equal more intelligent play?

For off-ball screens, just adjust your defensive settings to allow for players to either go above or below the screen dependent on the screen type and it fixes most of those issues. They’ll still get open at times, but nowhere near as much so it’s more balanced.

I already have. The AI is just too physically strong and my defenders just get blocked by the screen no matter what.

You're talking about artificially dumbing down other difficulties, rather than making the harder ones "Smarter".

NBA teams run very complex plays/actions. 2K scouts those and adds them to the playbooks. The AI runs those actions at all difficulties. The efficacy is what shifts as the difficulty goes up, just as it does in most every other game.

I have given this another go and really tried to have a positive mindset, but the Ai is just too physically strong. 6'2 unathletic guards physically dominate my 6'9 wings. I have to strongly argue that this is bad game design because it breaks the physics of basketball. They wanna hit ridiculous shots? Fine. But basic physics shouldn't be broken if we want the game to have even the most minimal realistim. I don't understand how the AI being that much physically stronger than you that they dominate you 100/100 times can be considered good game design.

[BOSsTOwN]

Re: Why can't higher difficulty equal more intelligent play?

In some shooting games enemies will flank you on higher difficulties and not on lower.

Over the years there have been many games where higher difficulty resulted in the computer controlled opponents using more varied tactics.

This doesn't happen in 2k games. They just lower your shooting percentages and other attributes and raise them for the computer controlled team.

Sports gamers deserve better. But many have grown accustomed to the bare minimum

[rockchisler]

Re: Why can't higher difficulty equal more intelligent play?

I already have. The AI is just too physically strong and my defenders just get blocked by the screen no matter what.



I have given this another go and really tried to have a positive mindset, but the Ai is just too physically strong. 6'2 unathletic guards physically dominate my 6'9 wings. I have to strongly argue that this is bad game design because it breaks the physics of basketball. They wanna hit ridiculous shots? Fine. But basic physics shouldn't be broken if we want the game to have even the most minimal realistim. I don't understand how the AI being that much physically stronger than you that they dominate you 100/100 times can be considered good game design.

Don’t forget higher difficulty levels does not mean more realistic Basketball.i remember reading that years ago from one of the 2K developers



Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Why can't higher difficulty equal more intelligent play?

I already have. The AI is just too physically strong and my defenders just get blocked by the screen no matter what.



I have given this another go and really tried to have a positive mindset, but the Ai is just too physically strong. 6'2 unathletic guards physically dominate my 6'9 wings. I have to strongly argue that this is bad game design because it breaks the physics of basketball. They wanna hit ridiculous shots? Fine. But basic physics shouldn't be broken if we want the game to have even the most minimal realistim. I don't understand how the AI being that much physically stronger than you that they dominate you 100/100 times can be considered good game design.

If you think it's bad game design, then by all means, give examples of "good design" games where the AI gets "smarter".

Play Tetris if you need further explanation of how difficulty works in games.

[jahswill]

Re: Why can't higher difficulty equal more intelligent play?

I can see the CPU shooting better, but in sports athleticism should be respected, or what are we really doing? The CPU getting physical advantages when the ratings say otherwise, is a complete immersion breaker!

[MiracleMet718]

Re: Why can't higher difficulty equal more intelligent play?

I can see the CPU shooting better, but in sports athleticism should be respected, or what are we really doing? The CPU getting physical advantages when the ratings say otherwise, is a complete immersion breaker!

What physical advantages do they get? The only advantages I really see are they make more shots and play tighter defense so I have to work harder on both sides of the ball. The athleticism seems the same to me.

[Pistol44PeteMaravich]

Re: Why can't higher difficulty equal more intelligent play?

If you think it's bad game design, then by all means, give examples of "good design" games where the AI gets "smarter".

Play Tetris if you need further explanation of how difficulty works in games.

A user above gave some examples. In some shooting games they might flank you on higher difficulty, or used more advanced tactics.

The AI could start switching on defense, they could leave bad shooters open for help coverage. They could run a more extensive playbook on offense utilizing more than Floppy's and similar off-ball screens. Maybe they move the ball quicker (this would actually be huge, because the AI's ball movements are super predictable). I'm not sure any of these things are too hard of an ask.

They could also make more sense with their roster construction not drafting 2 PF's when they already have 3 (I know this is not gameplay but it's linked if you play MyNBA).

Anyway, seemingly your response to this whole thread is just to imply I'm thick and don't understand games so I'll leave it there.

[vetmin]

Re: Why can't higher difficulty equal more intelligent play?

A user above gave some examples. In some shooting games they might flank you on higher difficulty, or used more advanced tactics.

The AI could start switching on defense, they could leave bad shooters open for help coverage. They could run a more extensive playbook on offense utilizing more than Floppy's and similar off-ball screens. Maybe they move the ball quicker (this would actually be huge, because the AI's ball movements are super predictable). I'm not sure any of these things are too hard of an ask.

They could also make more sense with their roster construction not drafting 2 PF's when they already have 3 (I know this is not gameplay but it's linked if you play MyNBA).

Anyway, seemingly your response to this whole thread is just to imply I'm thick and don't understand games so I'll leave it there.

I think his point is that what you’re really complaining about is just less-than-optimal CPU BBIQ in general; it doesn’t (and shouldn’t, for now) have anything to do with difficulty level. If you’re unsatisfied with the CPU behavior even after adjusting sliders to max out CPU reaction time, etc., then too bad because that’s simply as smart as the game is capable of playing. 2K isn’t deliberately holding back on some higher plane of CPU BBIQ.

In that case, if all you mean is that 2K needs to improve its AI, then that’s fine, and people (justifiably) complain about the AI all the time on these forums, but there’s no reason to bring difficulty level into it. If 2K improves the AI, then there’s no reason why it shouldn’t apply to lower difficulties / slider settings as well, in which case the only differences between difficulty levels would be the kinds of differences there are now.

Maybe if the AI and game mechanics as a whole take a monumental leap in complexity to the point that 2K is able to achieve a degree of realism that is just too much for a casual gamer to handle, then maybe it would make sense for lower difficulties to be deliberately ‘dumber’, but I don’t think we’re anywhere close to that point.

EDIT: Sidenote, but I find it odd to even talk about general difficulty levels in modern 2K games, since they’re mostly just slider presets. In a thread like this that voices a complaint about difficulty tiering, it’s confusing because (1) is the complaint about the slider values 2K has assigned to the difficulty level (in which case, why complain if you have free reign to adjust the sliders as you wish?), or (2) is the complaint about an underlying gameplay issue (in which case, why is the complaint framed in terms of difficulty preset instead of focused on the effects of the relevant sliders)?

[AIRJ23]

Re: Why can't higher difficulty equal more intelligent play?

This is the first 2K where using HoF as a BASIS is too difficult for me and not fun.

Nobody’s bringing up how the BASIS affects gameplay as much as or more than sliders.

I used my usual 2K adjusted sliders with HOF as the basis and it was arduous and felt like a damn grind to score. They’d get over every screen or if they didn’t, someone would bolt out to the screener before they can even sniff an open look or lane, I could rarely if ever find open shooters. Opposite of especially today’s nba where most shots are dishes to open men.

So I used all star as a basis with the EXACT same sliders that I used above (that I used with the HoF basis before) and it feels MUCH better and more natural.

[vetmin]

Re: Why can't higher difficulty equal more intelligent play?

This is the first 2K where using HoF as a BASIS is too difficult for me and not fun.

Nobody’s bringing up how the BASIS affects gameplay as much as or more than sliders.

I used my usual 2K adjusted sliders with HOF as the basis and it was arduous and felt like a damn grind to score. They’d get over every screen or if they didn’t, someone would bolt out to the screener before they can even sniff an open look or lane, I could rarely if ever find open shooters. Opposite of especially today’s nba where most shots are dishes to open men.

So I used all star as a basis with the EXACT same sliders that I used above (that I used with the HoF basis before) and it feels MUCH better and more natural.

The main thing I've noticed with the starting difficulty (on previous 2Ks; I haven't paid much attention to 25) is a difference in the green window, but there may be other effects as well. In any case (and I'm not saying you're necessarily complaining about this, but still) all the trouble you were having with HoF is not an actual issue; it just means it's not the base difficulty for you. (As another user said: Nightmare mode is not for everyone.)

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Why can't higher difficulty equal more intelligent play?

I confess to being massively disappointed with the lack of advancement in AI for sports games.

General AI is advancing at such a rapid pace. There's AI that can beat worldclass human chess players and NBA 2k AI can't match best on best because its too hard.

I don't expect cutting edge AI to find its way in my sports games, but they still lag behind more than I'd like.

We can probably attribute it to multiplayer taking priority, but on the whole AI in sports videogames is unsatisfactory

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Why can't higher difficulty equal more intelligent play?

General AI is advancing at such a rapid pace. There's AI that can beat worldclass human chess players and NBA 2k AI can't match best on best because its too hard.

Chess is a Two-Dimensional game.

Basketball is Three-Dimensional.

The amount of complexity that goes into getting 10 players to run up and down the court in unison is not remotely similar to an AI moving a Pawn from A2 to A3.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Why can't higher difficulty equal more intelligent play?

Chess is a Two-Dimensional game.

Basketball is Three-Dimensional.

The amount of complexity that goes into getting 10 players to run up and down the court in unison is not remotely similar to an AI moving a Pawn from A2 to A3.

Then use a different example of advancements in AI. Don't be obtuse

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Why can't higher difficulty equal more intelligent play?

Then use a different example of advancements in AI. Don't be obtuse

Such as?

You're the one using Chess as your point of reference. What are the applicable advancements other games have made that sports games have not?