Speed Without Ball Description 2K19

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  • youALREADYknow
    MVP
    • Aug 2008
    • 3635

    #16
    Re: Speed Without Ball Description Is Wrong In 2K19

    Here's my current setup offline...

    Game Speed: 65
    Acceleration: 6
    Speed: 1
    Speed with Ball Max: 100
    Speed with Ball Min: 1
    Acceleration with Ball Max: 60
    Acceleration with Ball Min: 15
    Speed without Ball Max: 100
    Speed without Ball Min: 1
    Acceleration without Ball Max: 70
    Acceleration without Ball Min: 5

    Speed Max/Min at 100/1 is balanced around 50, but it won't really matter with this slider set because the Speed attribute slider is set all the way down to 1. The base "speed" level of players on the court is more like 1-10 than 1-100. You will never see players running around at anything near regular speed unless they are turboing into a dribble/shot animation.

    Acceleration Max/Min at 60/15 and 70/5 is balanced around 37.5. This still doesn't matter as much because of the Acceleration attribute at 6. You still won't see anything approaching the Max end of that scale, but there are bursts of explosion in/out of animations when dribble moves are timed right because the Game Speed is set to 65.

    Because the attribute sliders are set so low, the Min slider has more impact on player movement than the Max slider. I'm seeing huge changes in gameplay for every +1/-1 move in the attribute sliders. Same for changing the Min slider, but almost no change in moving the Max slider.

    That's what I wanted though... faster animations than player movement.

    The first thing you notice with lower Acceleration balance is that your players feel heavier and can't move laterally as quickly with the ball. If you dropped Acceleration with Ball Min down to 1, then you wouldn't even be able to sprint dribble left/right which is crazy to see/feel. That's because of the strong foot planting. Turbo also kills stamina much faster since it's only useful to get on a defender's inside shoulder and not to run by them. You could hold turbo on offense and still not get past anyone unless they already were beaten by a dribble move.

    This set does a better job of rewarding change of pace and stop-and-go ball handling. The rest of my slider set is tough on inside defense to make up for how easy it can be to drive to the basket using dribble moves and euro/spin/hop layups. I have both Contact Shot Frequency sliders at 100 with high Layup Defense Strength sliders.

    I'm really not recommending this movement base for others to use, but it's worth testing to see what you can change by moving off those default levels of 50. You lose out on the much wider gap in Speed/Acceleration, but the player's animation packages and ball handling ability matter so much more that it makes up for it IMO. It also unlocks a lot of reaction and contact animations that normally wouldn't play out.
    Last edited by youALREADYknow; 08-06-2019, 08:42 PM.

    Comment

    • devroyce
      Banned
      • Jun 2015
      • 394

      #17
      Re: Speed Without Ball Description Is Wrong In 2K19

      Originally posted by youALREADYknow
      Here's my current setup offline...

      Game Speed: 65
      Acceleration: 6
      Speed: 1
      Speed with Ball Max: 100
      Speed with Ball Min: 1
      Acceleration with Ball Max: 60
      Acceleration with Ball Min: 15
      Speed without Ball Max: 100
      Speed without Ball Min: 1
      Acceleration without Ball Max: 70
      Acceleration without Ball Min: 5

      Speed Max/Min at 100/1 is balanced around 50, but it won't really matter with this slider set because the Speed attribute slider is set all the way down to 1. The base "speed" level of players on the court is more like 1-10 than 1-100. You will never see players running around at anything near regular speed unless they are turboing into a dribble/shot animation.

      Acceleration Max/Min at 60/15 and 70/5 is balanced around 37.5. This still doesn't matter as much because of the Acceleration attribute at 6. You still won't see anything approaching the Max end of that scale, but there are bursts of explosion in/out of animations when dribble moves are timed right because the Game Speed is set to 65.

      Because the attribute sliders are set so low, the Min slider has more impact on player movement than the Max slider. I'm seeing huge changes in gameplay for every +1/-1 move in the attribute sliders. Same for changing the Min slider, but almost no change in moving the Max slider.

      That's what I wanted though... faster animations than player movement.

      The first thing you notice with lower Acceleration balance is that your players feel heavier and can't move laterally as quickly with the ball. If you dropped Acceleration with Ball Min down to 1, then you wouldn't even be able to sprint dribble left/right which is crazy to see/feel. That's because of the strong foot planting. Turbo also kills stamina much faster since it's only useful to get on a defender's inside shoulder and not to run by them. You could hold turbo on offense and still not get past anyone unless they already were beaten by a dribble move.

      This set does a better job of rewarding change of pace and stop-and-go ball handling. The rest of my slider set is tough on inside defense to make up for how easy it can be to drive to the basket using dribble moves and euro/spin/hop layups. I have both Contact Shot Frequency sliders at 100 with high Layup Defense Strength sliders.

      I'm really not recommending this movement base for others to use, but it's worth testing to see what you can change by moving off those default levels of 50. You lose out on the much wider gap in Speed/Acceleration, but the player's animation packages and ball handling ability matter so much more that it makes up for it IMO. It also unlocks a lot of reaction and contact animations that normally wouldn't play out.
      Thanks! Hopefully I get the chance to try it today...very busy.

      Comment

      • youALREADYknow
        MVP
        • Aug 2008
        • 3635

        #18
        Re: Speed Without Ball Description Is Wrong In 2K19

        I used your Acceleration With Ball Min/Max settings and it worked great with the other movement sliders I posted so I'll keep using those. Had to adjust speed back down to keep the offense/defense balanced.

        Game Speed: 65
        Acceleration: 6
        Speed: 1
        Speed with Ball Max: 70
        Speed with Ball Min: 1
        Acceleration with Ball Max: 100
        Acceleration with Ball Min: 90
        Speed without Ball Max: 100
        Speed without Ball Min: 1
        Acceleration without Ball Max: 70
        Acceleration without Ball Min: 10

        Comment

        • devroyce
          Banned
          • Jun 2015
          • 394

          #19
          Re: Speed Without Ball Description Is Wrong In 2K19

          Originally posted by youALREADYknow
          I used your Acceleration With Ball Min/Max settings and it worked great with the other movement sliders I posted so I'll keep using those. Had to adjust speed back down to keep the offense/defense balanced.

          Game Speed: 65
          Acceleration: 6
          Speed: 1
          Speed with Ball Max: 70
          Speed with Ball Min: 1
          Acceleration with Ball Max: 100
          Acceleration with Ball Min: 90
          Speed without Ball Max: 100
          Speed without Ball Min: 1
          Acceleration without Ball Max: 70
          Acceleration without Ball Min: 10
          So I got to play a few minutes, and so far I like this remixed version of them put together. I will still try your original as well. But man I see normal human like movement. Even the very slow human steps. Lateral steps are slower like real life without using turbo.

          Edit: Got more to add, since I have a little more time. Rushing a bit. Yoooo I really like the movement. Very life like. I have have to watch how much I press turbo/Sprint otherwise they'd gradually get tired between multiple high paced possessions. I'm forced to take smarter shots too. Heck, even Cpu has to do the same thing. So yeah I only tried it a few minutes but man I like the movement [emoji108]

          Great job!


          Also, animations look great! Even receiving passes, and following through on attacking the rim. I even see the natural turbo moments when driving and ability to stop and go much better.

          A great example I saw was Brandon Ingram actually taking "real steps" (no gliding), "real pivoting" to avoid my attempts to force a jump ball or steal the ball. And none of the steps looked like those artificial speed boosts. Natural.

          Everything you wrote in the previous posts makes so much more sense after seeing it in action.

          Wish we had this earlier on...I would have liked 2K19 even more lol...but now I will until 2K20 drops. This made me like 65 Game Speed all over over again. Thanks.
          Last edited by devroyce; 08-07-2019, 12:55 PM.

          Comment

          • devroyce
            Banned
            • Jun 2015
            • 394

            #20
            Re: Speed Without Ball Description Is Wrong In 2K19

            Another great example, wish I had a video, but when E'twaun Moore was bring the ball up near half court, I tried to stop him from progressing past half court laterally, failed the attempt when I took one step beyond his back, and he was able to breakaway from me, and I wasn't able to slide back in front of him like glue as 2K normally does.

            Every step, pivot, turn, body movement, arm movement, head turn, reaction time to passes, matters even more now.

            Even handoffs look more polished.

            No more of it having the appearance of players sliding and gliding from the paint to the 3point line and vice versa in 1 or 2 steps anymore. Nothing overpowered speedwise also. Greatness.
            Last edited by devroyce; 08-07-2019, 01:12 PM.

            Comment

            • youALREADYknow
              MVP
              • Aug 2008
              • 3635

              #21
              Re: Speed Without Ball Description Is Wrong In 2K19

              Originally posted by devroyce
              Another great example, wish I had a video, but when E'twaun Moore was bring the ball up near half court, I tried to stop him from progressing past half court laterally, failed the attempt when I took one step beyond his back, and he was able to breakaway from me, and I wasn't able to slide back in front of him like glue as 2K normally does.

              Every step, pivot, turn, body movement, arm movement, head turn, reaction time to passes, matters even more now.

              Even handoffs look more polished.

              No more of it having the appearance of players sliding and gliding from the paint to the 3point line and vice versa in 1 or 2 steps anymore. Nothing overpowered speedwise also. Greatness.
              Yea, you cannot gamble on-ball or off-ball the same with these sliders. Elite ball handlers like Doncic and Harden have been making my defenders look foolish and it’s not just the stumble fall animation but actual crossovers.

              The only thing I’m thinking of changing is to increase +1 to Speed With Ball Min and Speed Without Ball Min to get more possessions each game.

              Comment

              • devroyce
                Banned
                • Jun 2015
                • 394

                #22
                Re: Speed Without Ball Description Is Wrong In 2K19

                Originally posted by youALREADYknow
                Yea, you cannot gamble on-ball or off-ball the same with these sliders. Elite ball handlers like Doncic and Harden have been making my defenders look foolish and it’s not just the stumble fall animation but actual crossovers.

                The only thing I’m thinking of changing is to increase +1 to Speed With Ball Min and Speed Without Ball Min to get more possessions each game.
                You're right, can't gamble at all with these. I took CPU for granted my first game, and it was not so great of an outcome for me lol. Otherwise, really liking these.

                I will try the exact same changes you suggested when I get the chance to get on the game again.

                Comment

                • stickyfingers
                  Rookie
                  • Jul 2018
                  • 458

                  #23
                  Re: Speed Without Ball Description Is Wrong In 2K19

                  Originally posted by devroyce
                  Also, setting Acceleration too low, whether in Attributes or Movement slider sections, will cause players not to be able to Sprint forward at any moment. You will notice players' movements will get stuck at times, not being able to go forward. This should never be limited. The only thing in real life that prevents any of us from being able to Accelerate is tiredness, or unless you run into any object that blocks you from being able to.

                  Edit: I am also discovering that setting acceleration too high in the movement slider section for certain categories can also cause sliding due to becoming overpowered. Finding a limit or cap for each movement slider is important visually, and they can all have their own unique value.
                  Great thread

                  Would you share your speed and acceleration values too ?
                  X / Twitter | YouTube | OS Old 2K Mods | OS 2K25 Mods

                  Comment

                  • devroyce
                    Banned
                    • Jun 2015
                    • 394

                    #24
                    Re: Speed Without Ball Description Is Wrong In 2K19

                    @stickyfingers My idea was this below:

                    Game Speed: 50


                    ATTRIBUTES


                    Acceleration: 50
                    Speed: 50


                    MOVEMENT


                    Speed with Ball (Max rating): 70
                    Speed with Ball (Min rating): 50
                    Acceleration with Ball (Max rating): 100
                    Acceleration with Ball (Min rating): 95
                    Speed without Ball (Max rating): 65
                    Speed without Ball (Min rating): 5
                    Acceleration without Ball (Max rating): 97
                    Acceleration without Ball (Min rating): 93

                    ***However, I am using @youALREADYknow settings now because I believe they are better for realism.
                    Last edited by devroyce; 08-08-2019, 06:40 PM.

                    Comment

                    • devroyce
                      Banned
                      • Jun 2015
                      • 394

                      #25
                      Re: Speed Without Ball Description Is Wrong In 2K19

                      Originally posted by youALREADYknow
                      Yea, you cannot gamble on-ball or off-ball the same with these sliders. Elite ball handlers like Doncic and Harden have been making my defenders look foolish and it’s not just the stumble fall animation but actual crossovers.

                      The only thing I’m thinking of changing is to increase +1 to Speed With Ball Min and Speed Without Ball Min to get more possessions each game.
                      I just tried your suggested increase of +1 to both at:

                      Speed with Ball (Min): 2

                      Speed without Ball (Min): 2


                      I got some postives for them:

                      1. Players' jog speed when tired looks more consistent. For example, like in real life when we get too tired to sprint, and still don't want to slow down to a walk because we gotta keep up somehow, we go into that steady and consistent jog when we are outta breath. That's what I see with the increase...even while pressing Sprint button. And it's a great aspect!

                      2. Collision animations and bumping into bigs in the paint with the whole set period...looks much more realistic as you can see both the offensive player and defensive player go backwards slightly as a result...and not look warped.

                      3. Even with Body-Up Sensitivity at default 50, there's no excessive glued effect, which lessens the need to tweak this slider.

                      4. I love the ability to stop and go hesitation to throw off an opponent and then get the attention of help defense to miss-time a block attempt, then I draw fouls against bigs in the paint.

                      5. Defensive Players are more prone to get hit with Defensive 3 Seconds violations due to not being overpowered speed-wise.

                      6. I just had a great great game versus the 76ers. I was the Celtics. Felt like I was playing basketball! Stats Below:







                      IMG_20190808_181123975.jpg


                      Kemba Walker was 1 rebound shy of a triple double for me. It didn't dawn on me until the end of the game, that I needed to use the "Shrink the Floor" defensive quick play on this Philly team full of bigs dangerously capable of offensive rebounds and scoring in the paint threats...so they didn't have a need to shoot many 3's. However, I may consider an increase in that tendency in my personal set.

                      What I used in this game:

                      - My Own Custom Slider Set on User vs CPU/Superstar/12 min qtrs

                      - @youALREADYknow Game Speed 65, Speed/Acceleration numbers, and Movement Sliders with a +1 increase to Speed with Ball (Min) and +1 increase to Speed without Ball (Min)

                      - Zone Usage: (roster edit) 100 for both teams as explained in another thread

                      - @mcdowell31 (roster edit) suggestion of decreasing Shot IQ by -20 for all players globally to prevent the "CPU second half shenanigans" in another thread: https://forums.operationsports.com/f...p?p=2049859770



                      [emoji108] [emoji6] [emoji817]


                      EDIT: Forgot to add, I see more player sweat throughout the game, because it actually takes realistic effort to push forward with @youALREADYknow settings.
                      Last edited by devroyce; 08-08-2019, 07:07 PM.

                      Comment

                      • mcdowell31
                        Rookie
                        • Dec 2007
                        • 168

                        #26
                        Re: Speed Without Ball Description Is Wrong In 2K19

                        @devroyce and @youALREADYknow: Gentlemen... woo! This entire thread has been a master class in movement and realism!

                        I wish the development team could talk about these kinds of things so that the community intelligence would increase. I have often thought the community says the shooting is hard, or something is not realistic, because basic knowledge of how the game works is lacking. If the collective community had a constantly updating wiki about game mechanics there would probably be less need for patches because people would understand why they were getting certain results.

                        Getting ready to put everything you have talked about in action right now!

                        Comment

                        • Cletus
                          MVP
                          • Oct 2004
                          • 1771

                          #27
                          Re: Speed Without Ball Description Is Wrong In 2K19

                          does this help with fast breaks as well? Sorry if it's been answered already. 2K for a few years made it feel like I'm playing the 1998 knicks every game.
                          PSN:BrrbisBrr

                          Comment

                          • Soonerfan28
                            Just started!
                            • Dec 2015
                            • 3

                            #28
                            Re: Speed Without Ball Description Is Wrong In 2K19

                            Hey devroyce, what is your custom slider set settings?

                            Comment

                            • youALREADYknow
                              MVP
                              • Aug 2008
                              • 3635

                              #29
                              Re: Speed Without Ball Description Is Wrong In 2K19

                              Originally posted by Cletus
                              does this help with fast breaks as well? Sorry if it's been answered already. 2K for a few years made it feel like I'm playing the 1998 knicks every game.
                              That depends on what you're looking for on fast breaks. If you're looking to get more separation in transition, then raise Speed With Ball Min by 1-2 until you like the result. If you want to get rid of that warp catch-up animation on breakaway layups/dunks, then lower Driving Contact Frequency.

                              If you want a wide open high pace game, then try these sliders:
                              Acceleration: 6
                              Speed: 1
                              Speed with Ball Max: 70
                              Speed with Ball Min: 4
                              Acceleration with Ball Max: 100
                              Acceleration with Ball Min: 90
                              Speed without Ball Max: 100
                              Speed without Ball Min: 2
                              Acceleration without Ball Max: 70
                              Acceleration without Ball Min: 15
                              Body Up Sensitivity: 5
                              Driving Contact Shot Frequency: 25
                              Inside Contact Shot Frequency: 25
                              Layup Defense Strength Takeoff: 50

                              It's probably going to be too easy to score in transition as a User with any skill, but it's a good starting point.
                              Last edited by youALREADYknow; 08-09-2019, 03:34 PM.

                              Comment

                              • devroyce
                                Banned
                                • Jun 2015
                                • 394

                                #30
                                Re: Speed Without Ball Description Is Wrong In 2K19

                                Originally posted by youALREADYknow
                                That depends on what you're looking for on fast breaks. If you're looking to get more separation in transition, then raise Speed With Ball Min by 1-2 until you like the result. If you want to get rid of that warp catch-up animation on breakaway layups/dunks, then lower Driving Contact Frequency.

                                If you want a wide open high pace game, then try these sliders:
                                Acceleration: 6
                                Speed: 1
                                Speed with Ball Max: 70
                                Speed with Ball Min: 4
                                Acceleration with Ball Max: 100
                                Acceleration with Ball Min: 90
                                Speed without Ball Max: 100
                                Speed without Ball Min: 2
                                Acceleration without Ball Max: 70
                                Acceleration without Ball Min: 15
                                Body Up Sensitivity: 5
                                Driving Contact Shot Frequency: <25
                                Inside Contact Shot Frequency: <25
                                Layup Defense Strength Takeoff: <50

                                It's probably going to be too easy to score in transition as a User with any skill, but it's a good starting point.
                                Hey @youALREADYknow just letting you that your reply to your previous comment has missing/blank values for:

                                Driving Contact Shot Frequency:
                                Inside Contact Shot Frequency:
                                Layup Defense Strength Takeoff:

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