NBA 2K9 Patch Released For 360/PS3, Impressions Here

[DC]

Re: NBA 2K9 Patch Released For 360/PS3, Impressions Here

Nice ideas Pared and Kruza, but do you think they are willing to risk losing fans by bumping up the defense's intelligence? Which would in turn make the game less offensive? I am with you, I want to see more turnovers but I mean how much more longer do we have to wait for these simple basketball mechanics?

[Pared]

Re: NBA 2K9 Patch Released For 360/PS3, Impressions Here

Using the hop step back with Kobe and then waiting for his slow release sucks.

I hear you man... the hop-step back is entirely too slow. There is no in between animation and with one, that move would become deadly, as it should be.

Right now, after the hop step back, the player needs to go back into the square up position, then shoot, allowing the defense to get back. It's very hard to get the right separation. The lack of defensive momentum plays a part in this problem as well; Guys can go with you one way and change direction quicker than the offensive guy.

Nice ideas Pared and Kruza, but do you think they are willing to risk losing fans by bumping up the defense's intelligence? Which would in turn make the game less offensive? I am with you, I want to see more turnovers but I mean how much more longer do we have to wait for these simple basketball mechanics?

It's only a matter of time before we start seeing a bigger focus on defense. Mark my words.

[Kruza]

Re: NBA 2K9 Patch Released For 360/PS3, Impressions Here

I don't know. But where it could possibly start is to have an 'Easy,' 'Advance' and 'Simulation' options instead of the difficulty levels that exist. Fix the overall intelligence of the off-ball defenders to be realistic no matter which setting. Just make the easier level result in more subtle defensive mistakes happening out on the court which would lead to more free throw attempts (called shooting fouls) and called blocking fouls.

Scoring can still be up with this improvement, but the points would come from increased number of turnovers, which would help this aspect of the game as well. And this leads to another point...

The turbo button has to go -- no doubt about it. Make an individual player's Top Speed, Quickness (how long it takes to accelerate to top speed) and Agility/Balance (change of direction capability) ratings be the determining factors in how well he can move whenever the left stick is pushed. If a user jerks the left stick back-and-forth while controlling a player who is not agile, then that player is likely to stumble or maybe even fall if this rating is low enough. A stumbling guy will obviously lose the basketball if he was handling it. And speaking on ball handling, make the ratings for Handle and for Hands more restricting overall. Not every guard or swingman can consistently dribble around in traffic without mishandling the basketball or traveling with it. Not every big man who has the basketball in the post against a physical defender can consistently make every move he wants to make without mishandling it or traveling with it. And not every big man can consistently catch a drop-off pass in traffic without bobbling it. There are far too many players in NBA 2K9 are rated high in these two attributes than there should be.

At any rate, I think improving these things would have a considerable domino effect in improving the overall realism of the game. If gamers still have problems with how it plays then they can tweak the sliders to make it as "arcadish" as they want it to be. A simulation-type game should aim to be realistic as it could be at default. It shouldn't be the other way around as it currently is, where one has to meticulously tweak sliders to achieve realism. That's a-- backwards to me.

Kruza

[Pared]

Re: NBA 2K9 Patch Released For 360/PS3, Impressions Here

I've been preaching for the removal of the Turbo button for 2 years now. It will happen. I know it will. It's just a matter of when.

Honestly since I've brought it up though, it doesn't have to be COMPLETELY removed. It could be a short spurt kind of meter that gradually refills on offense, and perhaps useless on defense.

Plenty of ways to go about it... but you'd have to experiment and see what works, honestly. Talking about it is one thing...

The most important thing is not allowing the user to just hold the turbo button down for... say, more than 3 consecutive seconds... and run around the half court ridiculously. There should be a start and stop. Hardly anyone runs in one spurt for more than 3-4 seconds in the NBA.

Next time you watch a game, keep count... and you'll see even on fastbreaks most guys can go 3/4 of the court in about 4 seconds...

[sportyguyfl31]

Re: NBA 2K9 Patch Released For 360/PS3, Impressions Here

Just a general observation, but does anyone find it very difficult to score with guards under say, 6"4"?

I'm talking about guys like Allen Iverson, Chris Paul, Chauncey Billups.


Lets take A.I. for example. I always hate using AI in 2k. the only way I can score with him is on 3 point shots, and breakaways.

In the half court he is utterly useless, as he is a blocked shot waiting to happen.

[Kruza]

Re: NBA 2K9 Patch Released For 360/PS3, Impressions Here

I've been preaching for the removal of the Turbo button for 2 years now. It will happen. I know it will. It's just a matter of when.

Honestly since I've brought it up though, it doesn't have to be COMPLETELY removed. It could be a short spurt kind of meter that gradually refills on offense, and perhaps useless on defense.

Plenty of ways to go about it... but you'd have to experiment and see what works, honestly. Talking about it is one thing...

The most important thing is not allowing the user to just hold the turbo button down for... say, more than 3 consecutive seconds... and run around the half court ridiculously. There should be a start and stop. Hardly anyone runs in one spurt for more than 3-4 seconds in the NBA.

Next time you watch a game, keep count... and you'll see even on fastbreaks most guys can go 3/4 of the court in about 4 seconds...

Point taken, but I believe a turbo or sprint button is not needed if the Top Speed, Quickness and Fatigue attributes are properly implemented. Rapidly pushing the left stick to the extreme at a specific direction should be enough to get a player eventually moving from standstill position up to his fastest straightline speed while sprinting on the break. How long that player has his momentary burst depends on how quick the player is able to accelerate. He'll maintain that momentary burst at top speed as long as his fatigue levels are high. Lower fatigue levels mean lesser amount of time that player reaches his absolute top speed on the rapid push of the left stick. And there's no chance of reaching top speed at any point during a long sprint down the court if the player is tired, which is the way it should be.

I think including an addditional artificial burst will significantly limit the importance of Top Speed, Quickness and Fatigue ratings.

Kruza

[jfsolo]

Re: NBA 2K9 Patch Released For 360/PS3, Impressions Here

Just a general observation, but does anyone find it very difficult to score with guards under say, 6"4"?

I'm talking about guys like Allen Iverson, Chris Paul, Chauncey Billups.


Lets take A.I. for example. I always hate using AI in 2k. the only way I can score with him is on 3 point shots, and breakaways.

In the half court he is utterly useless, as he is a blocked shot waiting to happen.

With Smaller guard you have to initiate moves when they are in space with several feet separating them and the nearest defender and when they are farther away from the basket. That way you will usually get a better finishing animation and a better chance of drawing the foul. Default shoot in traffic ratings are too low for a lot a those elite guards as well.

[Pared]

Re: NBA 2K9 Patch Released For 360/PS3, Impressions Here

Trust me... I agree with you completely in theory... I just don't think the execution would work well. It would cause players to be very, very gentle with the left thumbstick and I don't think people would have fun with the game if it was implemented that way.

I don't know, I could be wrong. I've tried going into practice and feathering the left thumbstick slightly, then going to the extreme of a direction then slowing up by feathering it again... I don't think it would be a very precise way of controlling your players unless the entire offensive animation moveset was redone. A massive undertaking, IMO.

I don't think they need that. People always point back to 2k7 and you didn't really need it there; just a better system for momentum. Either way, I think we all agree that 2k needs to take some steps to improve the player movement in the game. I'm sure they feel the same way...

[str8stuntin03]

Re: NBA 2K9 Patch Released For 360/PS3, Impressions Here

I wish the turbo/sprint button was used to push the ball way ahead of you. It jus seems weird taking five to seven dribbles to the basket while running full speed

[sportyguyfl31]

Re: NBA 2K9 Patch Released For 360/PS3, Impressions Here

With Smaller guard you have to initiate moves when they are in space with several feet separating them and the nearest defender and when they are farther away from the basket. That way you will usually get a better finishing animation and a better chance of drawing the foul. Default shoot in traffic ratings are too low for a lot a those elite guards as well.

ah ha. I'll give that a whirl

[bconey23]

Re: NBA 2K9 Patch Released For 360/PS3, Impressions Here

I want to know if maybe anyone knows what is going on with 2K now. I just played it for the first time in weeks this past Friday and the things I noticed was I was unable to budge anyone in the post, I couldn't back down speedy claxton, and I had Bynum. Also the spin move, I can no longer do, each and everytime I tried, the ball was knocked away. I also noticed in the post I was no longer able to do the pump fake then hop step move in the post. I would do the pump fake, but nothing else, my player just stands there. Has anyone heard about any changes to the online lag time. I played for the first time this weekend online and the lag was ridiculous, I went 1-11 from the free throw line, and it was impossible to play defense or to even make a jumper. I spoke to a friend of mine who has a 360 (I have a PS3) and he said as of a week or so ago, he got some update and there is no longer ANY LAG...he says it plays just like off line, anyone know about this?? Lastly, my same friend noticed a difference in the fatigue factor online, when I played this past weekend, my players were near exhausted in 2 mins (HEAT)..he said he noticed a difference and think there is some change coming soon for PS3..

[NINJAK2]

Re: NBA 2K9 Patch Released For 360/PS3, Impressions Here

ah ha. I'll give that a whirl

I agree with jf also. When you use a.i. you need to use him like he plays in real life. get to the rim and create contact-a.i. is usually at the top of nba stat boards in free throw attempts. create space for the jumper-one thing I like to do with him is make a move towards the basket and then use the stepback to create space for the mid range j.

[Stumbleweed]

Re: NBA 2K9 Patch Released For 360/PS3, Impressions Here

AI's leaners are deadly too... But yeah, drive the basket and try to get some fouls and tough layups with him. His jumper isn't reliable enough to try and kill people with that alone. His stepback (both the hop step Y-button move and the RT+away from basket dribble) is nice though, especially when you transition it into a fadeaway, which he makes at as high a rate as anyone in this game. Being short, that fade is a nice move to have because he'll make tough contested shots as long as they don't actually get blocked.

[Rawdeal28]

Re: NBA 2K9 Patch Released For 360/PS3, Impressions Here

I hear you man... the hop-step back is entirely too slow. There is no in between animation and with one, that move would become deadly, as it should be.

Right now, after the hop step back, the player needs to go back into the square up position, then shoot, allowing the defense to get back. It's very hard to get the right separation. The lack of defensive momentum plays a part in this problem as well; Guys can go with you one way and change direction quicker than the offensive guy.



It's only a matter of time before we start seeing a bigger focus on defense. Mark my words.

good post and i agree that 2k will improve the defense to be almost on par with the offense but not totally.

just like in real life, offense is what sells tickets. people love to see great offensive players put the ball in the basket along with the flashy moves. alot of people wont like the game (more so the casual players) if ur turning the ball over left and right and cant get to the hoop.

now dont get me wrong, i want those things just like u guys do. and like i said i believe they will improve the defense very soon, just probably not to the extent that we want. if thats the case Bruce Bowen would have been on a 2K or Live box along time ago.

[Stumbleweed]

Re: NBA 2K9 Patch Released For 360/PS3, Impressions Here

And the old saying "great offense beats great defense" definitely still applies IRL and I think it should still remain that way in games also.. People shouldn't be able to really defend premier wing or post players without a premier defender, and even then, the focus should definitely be on improving CPU help defense to prevent the star abuse online. Help defense is definitely the area that needs the most help, though having a "contest shot" command (instead of always leaving your feet for a block) would do wonders for individual defense.