Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

[o_capone]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

Ok

the only problem is that the computer cheats on hall of fame lol... so you make things harder but if you are up 1 or 2 and the cpu has the ball with the last shot expect it to go in lol... it's tough some times...

[totalownership]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

my post made a lot of sense... this game is great and enjoyable and very playable... the people who so called "are done with it" or "done with 2k forever" are the people who try to find every flaw and complain about it... they completely ignore the positives and always complain about very tiny minute negatives... anyone who says this game is "not playable" has no credibility... it kind of makes me wonder what people really expect from a video game... if nba 2k9 is not a basketball game you find enjoyment from then maybe basketball games are just not for you because this happens to be the best basketball game ever made.... the good by far outweighs the bad...

You couldn't be so wrong man. I complain because the "tiny minute negatives" as you call them COMPLETELY ruin the experience. When I play strangers online and they pm me "Yeah man that was bs. You had that game" then there's nothing "minute" about it. It's a gamekiller. You just killed the game. When the game accidentally plays sim way less time than it does NBA Street it's no a small thing. It is TOTALLY within 2K's power to make this game a complete true sim yet they refuse to do it. Nor do they even wish to accomodate those of us who want to play it completely sim. There is NOTHING stopping them from making a lobby that is completely sim , nothing. Yet they refuse to do it and thats a slap in the face from the very guys they so call appreciate. I paid real money for the game and it's not up to snuff.

I stopped ragging on MLB 2K6 despite it's problems. Know why? They sent me another copy when I posted I had cracked it in half and I took that copy STRAIGHT to gamestop and got my money back so at that point my beef with the game stopped. They send me my cash and you'll never see me in here again complaining but until then I'm going to let it be known they failed.

Half the people on my friendslist don't even play the game anymore and the last few I do play with already have plans to sell it off and none are crazy about the game. It's not just a small few. I bet if they could track the retention and rate of play of those who played before and who play now you'll see it dropped considerably. And I bet that if you track the people who are NBA Street fanatics I bet they're playing this game like it's the hottest thing on earth because it's RIGHT up their alley.

[Artman22]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

All i can say is that NBA2k9 is playable but with many flaws. I really hope 2k10 is a lot more sim then this.

[totalownership]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

For me the only reason for consoles are sports. Win or lose I just like to play sports. Football is my number one sport and we see where that has gone in the past few years. Basketball is my number 2 and I always thought 2K would come through for me and only get better but as the years go by the worse it's getting. So that leaves baseball as my number 3. Now when I gotta play the Show to get a pretty decent sim fashioned sport game then something is dead wrong.

The Show is probably the best current sim sport on a console right now. But , ok I'm about to get controversial here, it's not that the Show is so FANTASTIC that it makes you want to slap your momma. It's because everything else is so lacking the Show can't help but look great.

Don't get me wrong the Show is SOLID in what it does but there's nothing really "next level" "holy smokes I gotta sell some crack to get a PS3 and this game" "Hey sony take a pint of my blood please but just get me the game" great about it.

[Rawdeal28]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

Defensive Fundamental #1 -- The Basic Defensive Stance
Off-ball defenders don't crouch in real life, bro. They try to use their peripheral vision to watch the ball and their man at the same time...and are usually completely upright and shifting back and forth on their feet. I agree that the off-ball defensive animation doesn't always kick in, leaving the defender in the stupid idle stance, but that's eye candy. 2K's backdoor issues are an entirely unrelated to their stance...its the fact that they don't react quickly enough to their defender cutting, and ungodly lead-pass accuracy.

I do wish off ball defenders sagged off more. My issue is that 2K doesn't shrink the floor at all, and weakside defense is way too tight.

Defensive Fundamental #2 -- Guarding Off the Ball
Ironically, in your video example, every defender is in-between the their man and the hoop when the cam switches to behind Baron. No one is on the high side. As a matter of fact, the reason the cutter was open is because Warrick stayed under the pick, and got stuck behind Gasol...and yes, Gasol did indeed try to help defend the basket. Glitchy? Meh, maybe...but we're probably still a few year away from having every motion that a body could go through in traffic mo-capped, though. That will be AWESOME, but I'm not going to ditch lovely videogame b-ball because they don't.

That said, it takes some mighty powerful slider fixin to stop those infernal cuts to the basket. I agree that it takes way too much adjusting to get the CPU to actually take jumpers and run offense. I've found a nice set of sliders that eliminates it on Superstar, but I'm of the opinion that sliders are personal. These work for the way I play, and ymmv.

Defensive Fundamental #3 -- Be Aware of Tendencies
You can avoid bad switches by either controlling the center early in the defensive possession (so your wing guys don't do stupid stuff becasue they assume the guy you happen to be standing next to is who you're guarding), or pick up the PG before he crosses the timeline. Standing at the top of the arc waiting for the opponent PG to come to you easy peasy will get you some bad assignments if the play calls for him to set up on the wings. By the time you get over, someone else has picked him up and you now have issues. Its impossible to completely avoid mismatches, as it is in real life, especially in transition..but you can at least keep it at a tolerable level by being smart.

Also, you can stop stupid CPU doubles in the 'pressure/double' screen, and still double good post defenders your self by bringing over the other big. I'm kinda glad they make the double come from the top, because lots of dudes cheesed the double in the past. Lazily jamming on the RB will get you burned now, as it should be. Switch the double teams to "never" for the bigs, or everyone if its a problem...Or did you do that already and its still a problem?

Defensive Fundamental #4 -- Switching and Helping

In that vid you called that an unnecessary switch, but what did you expect the CPU to do? Should the AI have anticipated Shaq getting it at the top and have his man pick him up at half court? Shaq has never been picked up that high...heck, he's never even stopped there...ever. Unless he's settin a screen, Shaq goes directly to the blocks. He does not pass Go or collect 200.00 dollars. Of Course Parker is going to pick up the totally unguarded ball handler, since Shaqs man was in the paint waiting for him. Perhaps the person using the Suns is a complete cheeser, and his stupidity should have been rewarded with Shaq catching on fire and doing a 720 dunk, because the very first time I see an MVP point guard toss the ball backwards to a trailing Shaq at the top so he can And-1 his way through traffic in real life, is the last time I watch basketball. I promise.

The culprit here is the jerkiness you get with all of these animations. The CPU decided Bosh would contest it from the back since there were two deeper defenders, and his animation "yanked" him behind Shaq. I don't like those canned defensive reatcions either. I would have switched to Bosh, and hit the lunge sideways move with the d-stick. He probably would have gotten run over but it looks cool as hell...as does doing the "hands up" when my Cavs trap the ballhandler off the PnR. Still working on that.

BTW, Shaqs dribble wasn't an isomotion, its the "between the legs/behind the back/gradually slow down" animation you sometimes get when the ball is on the perimeter and you come to a stop or quickly change directions. Everyone can do those and I agree 2K should limit that to good ballhandlers. I hate when Z does it occasionally...but then again, I don't handle the ball on the perimeter with bigs that often. I guess I'm saying that at some point, VC shouldn't be held responsible for stupid basketball, IMO. If he would have tried an actual Isomotion dribble, he would have dropped it 8 out of 10 times. I can barely do a simple back out with Pavlovic without coughing it up.

Defensive Fundamental #5 -- Low-Post Defense
Usually, if a guy is successfully pushed off the blocks, he just wont get the entry, and if he does, he'll throw it back out and re-post. So yes, almost all deep entry passes are to a guy no more than a step outside the paint. I do agree that any mediocre big in this game can get that position pretty easily though, made worse by the defenders inability to front the post. That doesn't make this unplayable, but I know what you mean. Its funny they patched the postup whereas now you can barely budge a guy on the backdown, after the same dude just Debo'd his way into position, lol.


Offense:

You must call your play as soon as the PG receives the inbounds. Right away, before they get set up with something else. If you wait until you get to the top to call it, yes, they are very sluggish to reposition...but if you call it early, they run to their spots immediately, and by the time you get across midcourt, they're ready. I dunno, I run alot of plays, and I haven't had this problem since the first month or so. Also you DO NOT have to stop completely inside the starting circle...you need only touch it or run near it.

When Animations Attack

If the animations were rigid, and didn't cancel, most players would be frustrated with the unresponsiveness. "Dude, in 2K your always locked in an animation!!!" is how that particular rant is usually expressed.

IE, in your example, Rudy Gay started his layup animation before the dribble animation was complete. Well, yeah...the USER hit the shoot button one step inside the 3 line with no reguard to where his dribble was. If 2K held us accountable for that, this game would truly be unplayable. We'd complain that you can't start a layup until you're into the teeth of the D, or wail about how you have to watch animations play out before you can do anything. This forum would be up in arms if 2K punished us for sloppy "cancels" cuz thats what all of this stuff boils down to. The technology for completely hitch-less 10-man movement is a generation or two away fellas, and for right now, at least you have the responsiveness.

I also wish they would make the court bigger, something we've all been begging for. The huge strides and glitchy animation transitions can get you form the arc to the bucket without completing a dribbe animation. Making the distance greater would help this alot. At the end of the day though, you can't even tell at full speed. You only notice the canceled animations being glitchy on replays.

Same thing for Gasols sliding. What the hell was that jerky move once you faced up? Don't get me wrong, I've seen alot of sliding especially in the post...but can we take some responsibility for simply not being good at smoothly controlling the players?

Bottom line, the AI decides what happens, and then the animations try to show that, not the other way around. For example, blocked shots. How many times has the ball went directly through your hand...or how many times have you seen a block where the guys hand was at least 2 feet away from the ball? The CPU has calculated the success or failure of the block with "behind the curtain" number-crunching based on whatever stats they use. Then the put it on the screen. The animation doesn't decide what happens, it's just showing you what the background calculations have determined happens.

Success/failure of your passes, drives, shots...whatever...is all determined before you see a single polygon move. If the CPU calculates that a pass could make it from A to B based on distance, sliders and attributes...that pass is going to make it regardless of who it has to go through. I know, we all wish that the visualization could represent that calculation flawlessly, but again, the tech isn't there yet.

I agree with alot of the stuff you complain about, but at the same time, some of the criticisms aren't very fair, and if you let these kill your experience thats fine...but don't mistake all of those for being screwups by 2K, but some things you just aren't good at. Yeah, the "No!!! My favorite game is flawless!!! You're just not doing it right!!!" take is homegrown OS cliche by now, but it is sometimes very true.

I'm far from the best 2K player, but honestly...out of the dozens of "sim" players i've matched up with, I've only played 4-5 guys who truly know how to work these animations, and do the little things that make this game look amazing. 2K has combos too, lol. Things that override the glitches. Mo coming up the wing, tap LT for the step out, then immediately "y" and away from the basket into the stepback, then immediatly use the shot stick jumper which responds faster and makes the stepback jumper much smoother. That sequence looks so nasty. Being sim doesn't equal being good at making this game look smooth and pretty. There's a whole different level to 2K.

One last thing, lock-on D challenges a shot without jumping, and the steal button contests layups..without stealing. Wha? Yep, if you time the steal button correctly, and you aren't right up on the layup-er, they will do a hard contest...sometimes its just a physical play on the ball...sometimes it's a block. Unfortunately, many times it will gives you the steal attempt, which is cheesy and overpowered, IMO, but sometimes you get really cool defense at the rim. Anyone who struggles on D should go to the drill "contest shot" in association mode. That thing shows you just how hard it is to get good defensive position without locking on.

one hell of a ******* post!

EXCELLENT

DC...

Lock on considers you guarding the shot, no matter the position. You can really see this in the team-up mode, because the CPU gives you a pop up that says "good defensive position" when you're locked on to a shooter.

Proximity is almost meaningless in this game. Again, go to Association mode, sim about a half a season (so you can build up some development points) and do the "challenge shot" drill. You'll be amazed how many times the feedback will say "wide open" or "barely there" even though you are actually touching the shooter or jumping right in his face. the CPU is EXTREMELY picky when it comes to freelance shot challenging. Just lock on, trust me.

One caveat about lock on though...you can't challenge quick shots. It takes a second for the lock on icon to pop up, so if you're trying to quickly switch and defend a catch and shoot situation, go ahead and try to jump to block it, because by the time the lock on is available, the shot will be halfway through the net...

see that is what i dont like and exactly what i was saying before. i have had my defenders hand literally go through the shooters face..........swish!

Nothing fun about constantly getting beat because the cpu is hitting anything they throw up. It's a video game is a bunch of crap, it's a game that is suppose to mimic real life NBA Basketball, just as they have done every year. No exceptions when it comes to this game, especially since they come so far, only to be plagued with no defense A.I. and sliding across the court which has never been such a pain in a 2k basketball game. Basically the game stinks compared to 2k8 and 2k7 when it comes to gameplay.

i was with u up until that point. the game doesnt stink. just has some issues. and it is still way better than 2k8

For me the only reason for consoles are sports. Win or lose I just like to play sports. Football is my number one sport and we see where that has gone in the past few years. Basketball is my number 2 and I always thought 2K would come through for me and only get better but as the years go by the worse it's getting. So that leaves baseball as my number 3. Now when I gotta play the Show to get a pretty decent sim fashioned sport game then something is dead wrong.

The Show is probably the best current sim sport on a console right now. But , ok I'm about to get controversial here, it's not that the Show is so FANTASTIC that it makes you want to slap your momma. It's because everything else is so lacking the Show can't help but look great.

Don't get me wrong the Show is SOLID in what it does but there's nothing really "next level" "holy smokes I gotta sell some crack to get a PS3 and this game" "Hey sony take a pint of my blood please but just get me the game" great about it.

naw, THE SHOW is a great game no matter what. baseball isnt my number 1 sport either but i can clearly see how the game is so critically acclaimed.

to me nba2k and THE SHOW are great games.

[o_capone]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

You couldn't be so wrong man. I complain because the "tiny minute negatives" as you call them COMPLETELY ruin the experience. When I play strangers online and they pm me "Yeah man that was bs. You had that game" then there's nothing "minute" about it. It's a gamekiller. You just killed the game. When the game accidentally plays sim way less time than it does NBA Street it's no a small thing. It is TOTALLY within 2K's power to make this game a complete true sim yet they refuse to do it. Nor do they even wish to accomodate those of us who want to play it completely sim. There is NOTHING stopping them from making a lobby that is completely sim , nothing. Yet they refuse to do it and thats a slap in the face from the very guys they so call appreciate. I paid real money for the game and it's not up to snuff.

I stopped ragging on MLB 2K6 despite it's problems. Know why? They sent me another copy when I posted I had cracked it in half and I took that copy STRAIGHT to gamestop and got my money back so at that point my beef with the game stopped. They send me my cash and you'll never see me in here again complaining but until then I'm going to let it be known they failed.

Half the people on my friendslist don't even play the game anymore and the last few I do play with already have plans to sell it off and none are crazy about the game. It's not just a small few. I bet if they could track the retention and rate of play of those who played before and who play now you'll see it dropped considerably. And I bet that if you track the people who are NBA Street fanatics I bet they're playing this game like it's the hottest thing on earth because it's RIGHT up their alley.

well the game did come out a long time ago, i'm sure some people are dropping off... but eh if it's unplayable and crap to you then so be it, I have never played a better nba game I enjoy it... mainly because im not petty... i don't look for flaws or complain about "sim" lobbies because i'd rather spend my time enjoying the good aspects... oh and just so you know, if a "sim" lobby was ever created, cheesers would be in there... a lot of people who play "sim" use tactics that are "cheesey" to other players...

[ehh]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

Since the college bball season ended last week I spent about two hours with 2K9 last night for the first time since November. Not gonna go on a long rant but let's just say 2K9 will never be seeing my PS3 again.

[totalownership]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

Here's the setup:
Playing a friend online, Knicks vs Cavs. He plays as sim as the game allows as do I. We had some weird things go down but we shake it off (for the most part) and get on with the game. Down by one. He played it smart with a foul to give half way through me running a play. Well that leaves me about 4 seconds left to get something off. I don't have much to go to and pretty much know I lost this one but I figure I'll go to the hot hand. Although I know he won I had fun this game. One of the VERY rare times I can say I had real fun playing this game and it played within reason of a decent game so how does the game end....

Don't pay attention to Nate, pay CLOSE attention to lebron in the upper right of the screen




PS: Why did I do a double clutch on the shot? Don't ask me, you're going to have to ask my 360 about that.
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[totalownership]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

Einstein can you please tell us how do you feel about 2K's portrayal of physics and momentum in NBA 2K9?

[DC]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

That is just sad

[o_capone]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

it sucked for both of you guys.. first lebron got sucked in to a lame animation trying to get around a screen, then he floated in the air for 5 minutes to block the shot lol... nate gets shots block a lot though because of his size...

[totalownership]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

Now imagine seeing that EVERY game and tens of times during every game. Imagine seeing the cpu bend over backwards to screw you. That's my experience with this game EVERY time I play it. I'm not saying that particular play but seeing things along those lines. The best sim on a console?

[luv_mist]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

it sucked for both of you guys.. first lebron got sucked in to a lame animation trying to get around a screen, then he floated in the air for 5 minutes to block the shot lol... nate gets shots block a lot though because of his size...

What is the percentage of shots Nate gets block?? I could say the same thing about Ben Gordon who would be defended by taller guards. No offense but from jump shots, I don't think that Nate is block a lot because of his size as many would think. Maybe his close shots and layups but not shots like that on the outside. Could be wrong though.

[o_capone]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

What is the percentage of shots Nate gets block?? I could say the same thing about Ben Gordon who would be defended by taller guards. No offense but from jump shots, I don't think that Nate is block a lot because of his size as many would think. Maybe his close shots and layups but not shots like that on the outside. Could be wrong though.

thats because he is not gonna pull up for a jumper with a defender right there to block him like some people do when using him in the video game...

[o_capone]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

Now imagine seeing that EVERY game and tens of times during every game. Imagine seeing the cpu bend over backwards to screw you. That's my experience with this game EVERY time I play it. I'm not saying that particular play but seeing things along those lines. The best sim on a console?

this game is arcade, if people look at it that way they will enjoy it more too... they need to stop advertising it as sim...